GOING ABROAD LONG TERM

[Riggy]

We are just buying our first Motorhome, a new Apache 634U and plan to spend most of the next two years touring Europe on our long planned “dream” now the kids are gone. We have a place in Brittany which we may stay at while not touring and only come back to the UK for short breaks to visit the family.

Can anyone help or advise me with on the following questions:-

1)If we are only in the UK for say 1 month will this be ok with the insurers?

2)Do I have to be a UK resident to insure in the UK, we may apply to reside in France to make this our base, but still come back to the UK 1-2 months per year?

3)The Motorhome will be UK registered, if we left it at our place in France while we were back here and just re-tax it, are there any problems?

4)Because the Motorhome will be new I have assumed the three years before it needs an MOT will be OK to drive in Europe for this period?

Any help or advice will be greatly received, or if you could point me to the right web site or advisor/book.

 

Kind Regards

 

[Porky]

Riggy - 2010-11-08 4:40 PM

 

1)If we are only in the UK for say 1 month will this be ok with the insurers?

2)Do I have to be a UK resident to insure in the UK, we may apply to reside in France to make this our base, but still come back to the UK 1-2 months per year?

3)The Motorhome will be UK registered, if we left it at our place in France while we were back here and just re-tax it, are there any problems?

4)Because the Motorhome will be new I have assumed the three years before it needs an MOT will be OK to drive in Europe for this period?

Any help or advice will be greatly received, or if you could point me to the right web site or advisor/book.

 

Kind Regards

 

1 You should check with your insurance company many only allow for shorter terms abroad, some will do longer.

2 As far as I know you have to have a UK address for UK insurance. That also applies to insuring in other EU countries so you might do better with a French insurer if you are going to have French residency.

3 This actually relates to 1 & 2

4 You will not require an MOT for three years from registration.

 

It sounds to me as if you need to be careful about the insurance cover so check your policy and if you require clarification get it in writing accidents can be very expensive especially if the other vehicle is a top of the range Rolls Royce or similar*-)

 

Roy Fuller

[Tomo3090]

Hi, I will try to answer your questions, as will others, but it might be best to confirm the techy stuff with the dealers or DVLA.

 

It will depend on your insurers about quite a lot of your stuff. You will need to ask how long can you be out of the UK for at a time, you will need to check whether they will cover you for what might be termed, in their eyes, full timing. You will need to check they will allow you to have a van registered outside the UK to be insured by a UK company.

 

The annual habitation check and servicing will need to be done to cover the vans' warranty so you need to check with Autotrail whether they will recognise an outside UK company to do this.

 

You are OK about the 3 years for the MOT but it will need to be taxed in the UK every 12, or 3, months via the DVLA. This can be done online and they send the disc to a UK address. The problem there will be the insurance has to be correct and registered with their computer system otherwise they won't issue the tax disc. Our problem is our insurance runs out on the same day as the tax this year and I can't tax it online because their system won't accept the old insurance or new one because of the dates, so I have to go to the Post office.

 

You don't say what you are doing with your home, but that needs looking into insurance wise too, if you are keeping it.

 

You can register the van in France but then will have to have their documentation and insurances. This is outside my knowledge base so you will need to check up with the French authorities.

 

Good luck!

 

 

[Riggy]

Thanks Roy,

I have found Comfort Insurance where I can go as "full time" 365 days a year, but the UK resdent bit is obviously important.

On question (3) I was thinking about the fact it would be left alone while I was back here....I will ask the insurers.

 

Cheers

Adrian

[Riggy]

Thanks Tomo,

We are moving in with my mom as a UK base, having sold our UK property to finance the Motorhome.....

 

It looks like I will have to return with the Motorhome at least once a year and keep my mom's address as my residency!

 

Unless I can insure a UK vehicle in France, not sure on that one...translation of the small print may be a proble.....

 

 

Cheers

Adrian

[eljay]

Hi Riggy,

 

I was in a slightly different situation, but was able to insure my UK-registered motorhome with a French insurance company, but only for a finite length of time ( initially three months, I think) whilst I sorted out a certificate of conformity with the manufacturer. This took longer than expected, but I was told by the insurer there would have been no real problem extending the insurance on the UK registration. The French equivalent of the MOT is only required on the fourth birthday of first registration and then every two years thereafter, unless the vehicle is over 3500kg. in which case it is every year after the fourth anniversary.

 

Hope this is useful to help you make up your mind. If you need help in the future with getting the vehicle registered in France then please pm me and I can let you know my experiences.

 

J

 

[Don Madge]

Riggy - 2010-11-08 5:30 PM

 

Thanks Tomo,

We are moving in with my mom as a UK base, having sold our UK property to finance the Motorhome.....

 

It looks like I will have to return with the Motorhome at least once a year and keep my mom's address as my residency!

 

Cheers

Adrian

 

Hi Adrian,

 

Have a look at http://www.magbaztravels.com/content/view/80/136/ there's a great deal of info there. It will answer most of your questions and the ones you would never have thought of asking.

 

Safe travelling.

 

Don

[Dave Newell]

To the best of my knowledge if the motorhome is out of the UK for more than six months consecutively then it is considered to be permanently exported and therefore needs to be registered in a different country. you will have great difficulty registering a UK RHD motorhome in France. As the motorhome will be used in mainland Europe for 99% of your ownership why not buy a continental van over there, it will almost certainly be cheaper and will resolve a bucket load of issues in one go.

 

D.

[John J Thompson]

Dave Newell - 2010-11-08 6:25 PM

 

To the best of my knowledge if the motorhome is out of the UK for more than six months consecutively then it is considered to be permanently exported and therefore needs to be registered in a different country. you will have great difficulty registering a UK RHD motorhome in France. As the motorhome will be used in mainland Europe for 99% of your ownership why not buy a continental van over there, it will almost certainly be cheaper and will resolve a bucket load of issues in one go.

 

D.

 

From the DVLA website:

 

When a vehicle registered in the United Kingdom (UK) is taken out of the country for 12 months or more, it’s regarded as being permanently exported from the UK.

 

If a UK registered vehicle is taken abroad temporarily, it remains subject to UK law. This means that you as the keeper, must by law make sure that the vehicle stays taxed while it’s overseas. Providing the vehicle has a current MOT certificate and insurance, you’ll be able to tax the vehicle.

 

If you don’t tax the vehicle and it’s brought back to the UK untaxed, the vehicle will need to be transported and not driven upon entry back to the UK and SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) should be declared straight away.

 

We full time in our Hymer S700.

 

Comfort are the only company that offers full time with breakdown cover. The cost is about £1000+ and if you carry a car on a trailer full timing the insurance is very high £803 for a Smart ForTwo 2000 (W). You do not need a UK residence, but you do need a contact address if you pay the full timing premium with Comfort. Maximum stay in any one country is 6 months in a calender year.

 

NFU do full time but not full continental breakdown (there is is limit to a short trip) I do not know the cost with NFU or any of their terms and conditions.

 

I have read on another forum that you cannot register a vehicle with the habitation door on the UK side in France as it does not meet their construction and use regs.

[Riggy]

Thanks for all of your responses I cannot believe how helpful you all are.

 

I will digest the information and make some enquiries, look at the link and respond back with my findings. :-D

[Mel B]

As an aside, make sure you check out the health insurance side of things too, you'll need something in addition to European health card thingy (can't remember the exact name!). It also might be worth having an 'off the record' chat with someone from the medical fraternity to see how you stand for UK healthcare if you plan on 'living' abroad. You may find that some of your healthcare rights are reduced - I don't know if this has happened yet, but one of my doctors told me a few years ago that it was certainly being looked at to prevent people coming back for healthcare when they didn't reside here anymore ...

[Brian Kirby]

Before taking this any further, I would investigate buying a motorhome in France.

The van you propose buying is intrinsically British and, should the Autotrail element get damaged, is unlikely to be repairable outside UK.

A continental made van, from one of the major converters, would, IMO, offer better parts and repair access.  You say it will be new, so you should be able to buy at quite a discount to UK prices.

You have property in France, so the van can be registered and insured in France.  I believe there is no road tax (VED), as such, in France.

You will get LHD, which will generally make driving around Europe a bit easier, the lighting will all be for right hand traffic, the speedo will read KPH and, should it break down, European garages should have ready access to spare parts. For a RHD van this is seldom the case, and can result in long delays for parts.

Your French insurance would, I believe, give you comprehensive cover for more countries outside Europe, than UK insurance will cover (this is especially relevant if you want to travel, for example, to north Africa).

The French Controle Technique, essentially the French MoT, is only due after four years, and is then repeated biennially.

I believe you will not need to have taken residency to do the above, I think the governing factor is that you have an address in France.  Goes without saying that all of the above should be checked and verified, and if any are wrong, I should be grateful to know, but are believed correct as of now.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Brian has saved me the trouble of posting my thoughts. you could save a hell of a lot of money buying LHD as well....

[RogerGW]

You might also find some useful information here -- http://www.motorhome365.com/forum/ .

 

Roger

[Patricia]

Welcome to the forum Riggy - I don't think anyone else has done that yet, an oversight I am sure.

I have no idea about the intricasies of registering a motorhome in France but I have registered a car so here goes:

It will almost certainly depend on the departement, and to possibly how many UK residents there are in it, as to whether your UK motorhome will be accepted without alteration - in my case I obtained the Certificate of Conformity without too much difficulty and my car has gone through the Controle Technique about 4 times now with covers on the headlamps. In some departements they insist on changing the headlights which can be an added expense. The whole exercise can be costly - the DRIRE and Carte Grise etc.) which may be charged on the size of the vehicle or on its horse power, I am not sure) and once you start applying you are not allowed to leave the country, even if the vehicle is not leaving with you. You have to go to the tax office to prove that you have paid all the taxes due on it so save all the paperwork and, in my case, it also involved several visits to the DRIRE and the Prefecture, both of which are a round trip of nearly 100 miles. Insurance had to be in place with a French insurer which involved contacting the UK one to prove no claims bonus (you need 13 years to get the maximum allowance in France) and finally get the number plates. I also had to arrange the first Controle Technique which of course would not apply to you. French insurance is not cheap but it would mean you could leave the vehicle at your house while you visit theUK (most UK insurers will not let you do this and many would not insure you while you slept in the house!). You would be covered for breakdown (but if you do decide to do this make sure that you get injury cover for the driver - it does not automatically cover you). Also your family can drive the vehicle unless they are very young, then it is just a bigger excess. The good thing is that when I return to the UK the vehicle insurance is only peanuts and I get a big refund. Re road fund licence I know it exists in France on some larger vehicles but you would need to investigate further.

 

Legally if you are in France for more than 3 months you have to declare yourself to the tax and medical authorities (and the French are really checking up on this now) and depending on your age this could raise another reft of problems. However, you might find you pay less income tax particularly if you time your entry at the right time of the year.

So the advice to buy in France sounds good, although I suspect you have already committed to the Auto Trail, and personally I like driving a RHD in France anyway! I think the habitation door position might be the stumbling block, I do hope not if you are already committed. PM me if you want any more advice.

[ian81]

As one living in France I certainly would recommend / endorse those who propose basing the MH here (France).

1. As Brian has stated there is no VED (road tax)

2. On a new vehicle the 1st MOT is after 4 years and then every 2.

3. Insurance comes complete with green card / breakdown cover and policies are available that cover you for 365 days of use in a year.

4. France is far more MH friendly.

 

Note of caution: re registering a vehicle -particularly one with a European Certificate of Conformity is relatively easy if you follow the laid down rules / paper chase! However a MH with the habitation door on the 'wrong side' may prove difficult / impossible.

 

You don't need to apply to reside in France -residency is based on where you spend 183 days or more a year, or failing on that where you decide to have your principle residence.

 

That said there would be no problem registering / basing the MH in France and keeping the UK as your main base (for tax and health)

 

[Riggy]

Hi All,

Yes I have committed to an Autotrail and paid my deposit. I don’t mind a right hand drive on the continent as I have years of experience this way in my car, the raised cab should be a bonus. We have also moticed lots of RH MH on our travels so did not see it as a problem as such.

We did consider buying a LH and have visited several MH show rooms in France over the years of planning this, but did not like the layout/finish/cost mix we were looking at . But as usual you do not ask the right questions till it’s too late. I know there are several new continental rear loungers just launched.

As to the door on the wrong side, will I not just need longer cables to connect if I face the door the correct way?

I will not be just in France, as our plan is to tour the whole of Europe in two years.

Thanks for all the helpful advise so far, I have some further investigations to carry out from the information you have given me, but will be driving an Autotrail.

Kind Regards

Adrian

:-D

[Tomo3090]

As someone who drives an Autotrail and is more than happy with the base vehicle and habitation side too, welcome to the club! :-D

[Patricia]

I'll second that!

[Keithl]

And I'll Third that!!!

 

Don't forget to join the ATOC, I think you get one years free membership with a new AT, then you can go along to the Factory rally and see how they're made. It really is a worthwhile experience.

 

Keith.

 

PS Sorry for going off thread but seemed (slightly) relevant.

[Station Master]

Hello Riggy

If you care to log onto Anglo Info Brittany and search for vehicle insurance, you should find quite a wealth of information regarding the pro's and con's of insurance here in France. Our Chausson is French built but RHD for the UK market but strangely enough the accomodation door is on the "French " side. We have it ensured with MAAF fully comp and with break down assurance- (0kms ie if it wont start when you want to go away they will attend and repair.) I think the assurance (insurance) here is better than UK as you can tailor it more to suit your needs, and it is cheaper (about 300GBP.) We can go anywhere in Europe without having to notify the Assurance company and though technically we are limited to 3 months at a time out of France, the reality is we would only have to cross the border from say Germany into France for some shopping and we would have another 3 months.

If you own a property in France and pay taxes on it in France, then you could have the motorhome registered in France. Once again there are Pro's and con's. One big stumbling block could well be the position of the habitation door. Uk builds have this door opening into the traffic side on the continent, which to the beaurocrats is a safety issue. (This strangely doesn't occur in UK - yet!!)

Best of luck with which ever option you choose

 

Rgds

SM

[Losos]

Riggy - 2010-11-09 12:20 PM We have also noticed lots of RH MH on our travels so did not see it as a problem as such.

Hi Adrian, welcome to 'Out & About Live' and may I say that far from being a 'problem' having a RHD vehicle on the continent is a positive bonus, I have no problems driving and I can relax secure in the knowledge that even the dumbest of European car thiefs would think twice about stealing a RHD vehicle.

That may sound light hearted but car and MH crime is just as bad in mainland Europe as it is in UK and a hell of a lot worse around the border areas which would take too long and go way off topic to explain here but it is, believe me!!! 

[Guest JudgeMental]

I would think a RHD vehicle would attract more attention from thieves as it would be obvious that you are on holiday and full of luvily goodies to nick *-)

[johnnerontheroad]

JudgeMental - 2010-11-10 4:56 PM

 

I would think a RHD vehicle would attract more attention from thieves as it would be obvious that you are on holiday and full of luvily goodies to nick *-)

 

So would the GB sticker and UK reg plates.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Riggy - 2010-11-09 11:20 AM Hi All, Yes I have committed to an Autotrail and paid my deposit. I don’t mind a right hand drive on the continent as I have years of experience this way in my car, the raised cab should be a bonus. We have also moticed lots of RH MH on our travels so did not see it as a problem as such. We did consider buying a LH and have visited several MH show rooms in France over the years of planning this, but did not like the layout/finish/cost mix we were looking at . But as usual you do not ask the right questions till it’s too late. I know there are several new continental rear loungers just launched.

Hi Adrian.  Regarding LHD in continental Europe, I wouldn't say any more than it makes life a bit easier.  Ours is, and I find it does.  However, that is now academic, as you have ordered RHD.

I would not even consider trying to get it registered in France.  It will be a frustrating, time consuming, and probably fruitless exercise.  Your preferred layout is inherently British, and so far as I know, Autotrail are pretty much an unknown quantity on the continent.  Should you wish to sell, therefore, you will almost certainly have to sell/trade it in UK, where Autotrail is well reputed, and the layout popular, or you'll lose a packet.

Continental layouts favour the ways they use their vans, they are generally far less interested in lounges, because they spend more time outside enjoying their better, less windy, weather.

FWIW, whereas I'm not surprised you couldn't find the UK layout, I am surprised you found finish inferior and cost higher.  I wonder whether you visited either the Le Bourget, or Dusseldorf, motorhome shows.  Both our vans have been German, one bought in France, the other came from Germany, and both were new when bought.  In both cases quality was/is good; I would say at least as good or better than I have seen on UK made vans, and by buying standard LHD vans abroad we saved about 15% in each case against the UK price for the same van, same spec, RHD.  However, as above, somewhat academic now.

As to the door on the wrong side, will I not just need longer cables to connect if I face the door the correct way? I will not be just in France, as our plan is to tour the whole of Europe in two years. Thanks for all the helpful advise so far, I have some further investigations to carry out from the information you have given me, but will be driving an Autotrail. Kind Regards Adrian :-D

I don't understand about the cable.  Do you mean the mains hook-up cable?  If so, there is no commonality about where the mains intake socket is located on vans, wherever they are made.  It can be on either side, fore or aft, at low or mid height.

If touring as you intend, I would recommend you take 50 metres of cable, because on some sites you won't get a pitch within 25 metres, which is the standard UK length, of the supply pillar.  You may have to take this as two 25s, in which case you'll also need a waterproof shroud for the mid-length join because, whereas the standard blue EC connectors are shower proof, they are not safely waterproof if lying in wet grass, or on waterlogged, or flooded ground.  You'll also need the ubiquitous two pin continental adapter plug, but any reasonable motorhome/caravan accessories shop should have these in stock.