Larger MH - some advice needed

[RogP]

we are looking at possibly changing our MH to a garage model type to firstly give us a fixed bed and secondly better storage.

 

So I'm trying to guage what benefits or challenges a larger MH might give us.

 

Our current MH is 7.4m long and we've seen a couple of TAG Axles we like which would take us to about 8.6m.

 

At present most our outings are in the UK (alot in Devon and Cornwall) but we will be going to France more from next year. In the UK we would take a car but in France we would not.

 

I have no problems with costs , storing , licences or driving a larger MH etc etc etc.

 

 

What I would like to undertand is how pratical are such sized MH in terms of driving , finding suitable sites , levelling when pitched etc etc and when abroad finding places to park when wanting to visit places.

 

We dont wild camp , not sure if we would use Aires for over night , tend to prefer sites.

 

Any advice most welcome as I'm starting to research now with a view to changing over the winter period.

 

[Caroline]

Hi Roger

 

We had a fixed bed garage model about the same size as your current model, it was lovely having the massive garage for storage, it would hold a motorbike happily (obviously weight considerations). We changed to the current model because we found the bed a bit high and knees are not what they use to be. As you can see we have compromised with the current van lower bed, still lots of storage and not a tag axel. We ended up with a tow car for the UK and we brought electric bikes for the excursions abroad and they can either fold down and go in the van or we can put them on the bike rack.

 

A friend of ours did have one of the Cheyenne garage model but like us I think in the end the height of the bed and age got in the way and he changed to a Dakota and has his Motorbike on the back, a lot of research went in to that bike as well.

 

I am afraid that we did not want to go to a bigger van although the space would have been a luxury because we tend to camp in fields and wanted to keep the van down in size we found we did not lose much.

 

Hope this helps.

 

[Brian Kirby]

The longer van will restrict certain kinds of access at times.  But you know that, it is why you are asking!  The answer must inevitably fall into the "length of a piece of string" category.  The question, in truth, is will this longer van restrict you, in what you want to do.  I think you think it will, and I think you are right.  It would definitely restrict us, but so would your present van, which you find OK, so I guess we just go to different places, or go at different times.

Some will say they have no problem with an American RV, others that they sometimes find things a bit tight with a Berlingo, it depends on where you go, which in turn depends on what you want to do.  Ultimately, in truth, I think only you can decide.

What I would say is that you seem to be looking at vans based on FWD SEVEL commercial vehicles, that are then extended with AlKo chassis and an additional axle, to make them capable of travelling at, or close to, their heaviest MAM.

I would therefore very carefully check that the Gross Train Weight of the larger van is adequate for towing a car.  I suspect that much of the GTW margin may have been consumed to accommodate the extended chassis and increased MAM.

I would add that motorhomes always run close to their MAM, compared to the vans from which they are derived.  This places a permanent, relatively high, load on the front suspension and wheel bearings.  Within design limits, yes, but getting close.

Then there is the known problem with the high reverse, and first, gearing.  This van will be heavy, so expect hill starts in either direction to be that much more difficult.

With cost not being a consideration, for the size of vehicle you are considering, I think I would begin looking at Iveco, or Mercedes, rear wheel derived vehicles, built on chassis that are designed for heavier vehicles from the outset.  They won't be Autotrail, and will almost invariably be A types, and German, possibly French: Hymer, Carthago, Niesmann, Concorde, but also possibly Frankia, Rapido, Le Voyager, Esterel, and doubtless others. 

Somewhat different concepts, but at least they have underpinnings intended for heavier vehicles such as you seem to be contemplating, and will have much tighter turning circles, to aid manoeuvring, because they will be RWD.

The type of vehicle you cite is, IMO, something of a chimera, and is inherently flawed by being a small vehicle stretched into something it was never intended to be.  A bit like those stretch limos beloved of "C list" celebs!

Now I'll have gone and upset all the "stretch motorhome" owners on here.  Can't win.  No offence intended, boys and girls!  :-D

[747]

Brian is correct about a tag axle being limited to what it can tow. My Burstner (from memory) can only tow not much more than 200 kg`s. We never tow anything so it is academic.

 

Mine is about 8.2 metres long and we mostly wildcamp without bother. It is a very stable motorhome to drive. As for levelling, with a wheelbase of about 4.5 metres, you need to carry a of ramps to get level, even on a small slope. We do not even bother carrying them now, we just find the nearest to level place and live with a slope.

 

On wet muddy ground, most motorhomes have the characteristics of a submarine, so stick to hardstandings. :D

[RogP]

many thanks for the early replies

 

certainly food for thought

 

I'm not truely convinced we need a TAG axle or one over 8m , I saw some interesting MH at the NEC but the wife wasn't well enough to go so she's only thinking of the models we saw beginning of the year.

 

We're in no rush to be honest but I want to gather as much info as we can to make a informed choice again

 

(PS nothing really wrong with current van but we now know a fixed bed will be better long term , especially as my wifes condition is not improving)

[Keithl]

Hi Rog,

 

You don't need to go bigger to get a fixed bed and (admittedly smaller) garage!

We were looking at the AT Apache 632 at the NEC and were very impressed with the layout and storage. We very, very nearly ordered one but I'm afraid I couldn't bring myself to buy a F*** (If it had been on a Merc I would have bought it on the spot!).

I'm guessing as your current AT is a 2007 it's probably(?) a Sevel X250 so in this case you'd be changing like for like.

The 632 is 6.95m long so considerably shorter than your current Apache and therefore would be much more manoeuvrable and should have sufficient left of the Train Weight to allow you to tow.

We (just the two of us) find our 6.5m long, older model Cheyenne 632 with longitudinal fixed bed absolutely fine and have never yet managed to fill all the lockers and storage.

 

HTH,

Keith.

[Den]

Hi Rog

For a fixed bed and Garage take a look at the 850 LeVoyageur (Hayes are the importers) 7.39 mtrs

 

The bed electrically climbs up the rear wall by 25% ish to give more room around the Bed/Toilet/Shower, Floor space wise.

 

The garage, we can fit two fold up bikes, chairs, table, cadac, Etc.

 

They also do larger Mh's,We have just sold our 950, 7.95 mtrs. We found that a tadge to large even though we holiday in France/Spain most of the time.

 

Its a quality MH partly bespoke from a very good company.

 

Dennis

 

[flicka]

RogP - 2010-11-09 1:40 PM

 

many thanks for the early replies

 

certainly food for thought

 

I'm not truely convinced we need a TAG axle or one over 8m , I saw some interesting MH at the NEC but the wife wasn't well enough to go so she's only thinking of the models we saw beginning of the year.

 

We're in no rush to be honest but I want to gather as much info as we can to make a informed choice again

 

(PS nothing really wrong with current van but we now know a fixed bed will be better long term , especially as my wifes condition is not improving)

 

Hi Roger

I don't know the situation with your wife, but if you are looking at the "general" Rear Traverse Bed over Garage, these are usually accessed by steps. So may be a concern.

The only model I am aware of with an adjustable height transvers bed is the Chausson Flash 04, (there may be others) but that is only 5.99m long.

Have you considered the Island Bed models.

These usually have a lower height Bed at the expense of Garage height.

 

As an example have a look at the Rapido 7090 which is very similar length to your Apache.

http://www.rapidomotorhome.co.uk/rapido_7090.php

[RogP]

more thanks for the replies.

 

My wife has MS so we're looking at what we can do to make going away as hassel free as possible:

We definately know we want fixed bed (making the bed is a real pain) , garage would be nice to have but can live with out it.

 

Dont really want to go smaller as we like and need the space we have already as at times we have to stay 'home' when SWMBO isn't well enough to venture out. Keeping a 5 year old cooped up in a small MH is a mare so we tend to take alot of his toys and games to keep him happy , hence garage for bike , scooter , 2ft tall plastic dinosaurs (oh yes believe it) etc etc etc.

 

We're in no rush and intend gathering all the info we can before we decide what to do as we want the next Mh to be a 'keeper'.

[Mel B]

Hi Rog

 

I have a Chausson Flash 04 with the height adjustable bed, but even at it's lowest height I very much doubt it would be low enough for your wife to clamber in and out of.

 

I would seriously suggest you consider something around the same length you have now but look for a twin rear bed layout - this will allow you plenty of garage storage space so long as you don't go for the ones with the washroom along the rear. They will obviously be easier for you and your wife to get in/out of as needed, your moving around in bed would not disturb her, if needs be and she needed a different mattress to you (softer for example) this could be easily accommodated. You generally get additional cushions etc to make the beds into a very large kingsize one if you wanted to.

 

Thinking of future needs, if you are likely to have to take some disability aids with you, check the payload carefully and whether or not any van you're interested in could be uprated if needs require it.

 

The reason I've suggested not going larger than the van you have is that there may be times when you want to take your van into town etc, rather than use a tow car, and the shorter it is the easier it will be to find a parking space for and manoeuvreing will be easier too.

 

We've just gone down from 7.14m to 5.99m and it has been a 'liberating' experience.

[Station Master]

Hello Roger

I'm posting this as Station Master aka Vixters Other Half. We had a Niesmann Bischoff Clou liner that we used full time travelling around Europe. The motor home was plenty big enough to accomodate all our living requirements and over a weighbridge with everything on board we tipped the scales at 7300 kgs. This is on a MAN 7500 truck chassis. 8.5m long but 2.5m wide

 

Plus points- plenty of room, large fixed bed, separate kitchen diner from Lounge area. Fully winterised with wet gas fired central heating, 50 mm insulated walls, glass double glazing. The extra width means you can pass each other easily with out having to climb on the furniture. Easy commanding driving position. Large fuel, gas and water tanks, cavernous garage. Side lockers, Solar panels and Air cond

 

Minus points 7.5 tonnes - need hard standing in all but driest of weathers

Super market car parks are non starters unless you get to the very end and walk a long way. Fuel consumption about 18-20 mpg (we towed a Smart car on a trailer) The overall size and height (3m) make access to service points sometimes tricky (long waste hoses recommended) Continental campsite pitches can be small and involve a lot of shunting.

Need to get commercial testing station to do MOT's and servicing of the engine/chassis is again a commercial undertaking.

 

 

At the end of the day it suited our needs which may not be the same as yours. However we certainly enjoyed owing and using it. Just wish we had a lottery win to get another one made to measure. If you want more details send me a pm

 

Regards

SM

[ips]

I have the same van as mel (flash 04) and as one who suffers from acute sciatica from time to time I concurr with mel, I dont think the bed will be low enough for anyone with mobility probs as I struggle a bit sometimes myself.

[Mel B]

Just thought of something else to consider when going for a bigger (heavier) vehicle. When you go over the magic 3500kg figure, your European breakdown recovery can be affected.

 

When we had the Rimor, we were contemplating having it up-rated from 3500kg to 3850kg (paper exercise), but found that it changed our position with regard to breakdown in mainland Europe (with Safeguard insurance). Although it would still be covered fully to recover etc, it would mean our existing cover would not pay for a hire vehicle or hotel expenses as it then went into the 'commercial recovery' category which excluded these things.

 

It might be worth looking into this with your current insurer/recovery supplier to see if you would have the same restrictions.

 

Also, don't forget that some campsites don't like tag axle motorhomes and your toll fees will be more too ... plus you'll have 2 more tyres to buy!!!

[Travelling Tyke]

Hello Roqp,

 

Just a thought. Don,t want to get into the eggs/granny/ teaching situation but toilet/shower/washbasin space/usefulness seems not to have been mentioned.

 

In some vans it seems to me they are for use by contortionists and as such not a convenient convenience.

 

As I've said just a thought, but needs must and they should be as easy as possible..........more so as time goes by. :-)

[RogP]

Travelling Tyke - 2010-11-10 7:36 PM

 

Hello Roqp,

 

Just a thought. Don,t want to get into the eggs/granny/ teaching situation but toilet/shower/washbasin space/usefulness seems not to have been mentioned.

 

In some vans it seems to me they are for use by contortionists and as such not a convenient convenience.

 

As I've said just a thought, but needs must and they should be as easy as possible..........more so as time goes by. :-)

 

 

No we've not over looked that , although we like our current van the washroom is totally rubbish and we totally cocked up on that one so we wont make that same mistake again.

 

 

Luckily at present my wifes mobility is OK so getting in and out of a fixed bed isn 't really a problem. Our problem is more of conveinience in some respect. She gets tired very quickly and the nature of her MS is that she literally crashes out in the early evening , added to that is she also has to take a very high dose pain killer that takes her about 1-2 hours to take in the form she has it ( i.e its like a lolly pop she has to rub on the inside of her cheek but it takes ages to disolve).

 

So most of the time its down to me to get the MH set up , like the awning I have to do on my own, then at night she cant mess with cushions so I have to do that , then there's walking the dog , generally looking after junior and then the whole decamp at the end of the stay. So I need to make as much of what I can as easy as I can.

 

Dont get me wrong I'll do anything to make my wifes life as easy as it can be as she didn't ask to be struck down in this way , but I also need to make my life easier so I can give more time to her and my son.

[Big Momma]

I had the Swift Kontiki which was 7.5m, I have recently changed to the Autotrail Comanche which is 8.7m. It has an Island bed and very useful washroom with shower on one side and wc/washbasin on other so much better. There is garage style storage at the rear, not as large as some but it is amazing what you can get in there, as well as all the other bits and pieces (BBQ), Camping Table etc I also store 2 x electric bikes (folding) and a Recliner chair.

 

There is some limitation to sites but not so much as to prevent you from getting to most places. Lots of sites in France/Spain/Germany and others cater for large vehicles. Check out the ACSI DVD but also go online and the sites will tell you if they have 'Large' pitches or as they occasionally refer to them 'Super Pitches'. I have not as yet had any problems in UK.

[Brian Kirby]

May I add one or two further thoughts?  I wonder if you have a timeframe related to your wife's condition?  I have very slight knowledge of MS, but it used to be regarded as progressive, but with a tendency to progress unevenly.  If that is still the case, I just wonder about future access to the van, as most have steps up, sometimes not all that even, or easy to negotiate.  I therefore wonder if something that has, or can readily be adapted to have, a lift at the habitation door would be worth considering as a precaution? 

Regarding manoeuvering a larger van, most of us have to rely on a second pair of eyes at times.  If your "second pair" becomes unable to perform on demand, bearing in mind a larger envelope will make some manoeuvres more difficult, might you be create extra stress for yourself, and possibly for your wife, under circumstances where she may previously have assisted?

[Hawcara]

Dont know anything about it but there is a large Geist 708 on this site.

It has twin beds at the back

http://www.ikonickampers.co.uk/

Might be worth a look (lol)

[flicka]

Hi Rogp

I didn't want to intrude with my previous post, but now you have said what your wife's situation is, it does allow for more informative answers.

 

We had to change our previous Motorhome dur to the progression of my wife's disability, (T8 Paraplegia) so although not MS, we were in a similar situation that you now face.

 

After many hours of searching, we changed to our current Autocruise Sportstar.

Although it has a high level transverse fixed bed over the Garage, (which I use in it's single bed format.) it also has a front 1/2 dinette, which converts to a narrow transverse front single or short fore/aft bed for my wife.

The garage will take her small Mobility Scooter & also her Wheelchair

& the M/H has been "modified" to cope with my wife's difficulties.

We avoided major structural work by fitting a Milford Person Hoist in the Passenger doorwell by Autochair. (their 1st fitted to the X/250)

These may be of interest to you.

 

http://www.autochair.co.uk/store/person-hoists-and-transfer-into-vehicles

 

Another alternative may be the Atlas Portable Battery Hoist

http://www.atlaslifts.co.uk/slings_hoists.asp

Unfortunately it is not shown on their website, but it has contact details.

[RogerC]

Rog,

 

You don't say how much 'domestic' space you are needing along with your garage requirements so my suggestion might or might not fit your needs.

 

The Roller Team 600g (7.24 mtrs) has a huge garage and a height adjustable double bed over it. We have had ours for a couple of months now and love it. The lack of hassle in going from relaxing and reading with a bottle of wine and a couple of G&T's to getting to bed is the biggest bonus. No grief getting cushions and baseboards to faff around with.

 

The washroom/shower is a nice size with a proper shower door to seperate the shower/loo areas. If I'm picky I would say the sink in there is too low but we can live with that as it's the only thing we have found to 'moan' (lol) about.

 

There are two steps to get up to the bed but these are not high.

 

The towing limit is 1200kgs so depending on your tow car this might be worth looking at. We towed our Smart for two back from Armitages (West Yorkshire) via Staffordshire to Wiltshire and it was a dream.....

 

We have done a number of nights away and there has been no problem in parking or levelling. The advantage with this van is it is on the twinwheel (rear) Transit chassis so has all the drive in the right place.

 

Either way good luck on finding your new 'home'