Pledge Polish + Motorhome

[Corky 8]

Need your brains again, Only had the M/H since Mid November this year (2010) , So not had a  chance to wax it (which it needs badly) I normally use Autoglym, but searching other forums I came across someone whom had a GRP repair professionally completed on his Autotrail M/H and the Guy who did the repair then finished the job off by spraying and polishing it with Pledge furniture polish also recommending the owner polish the whole of the exterior of the conversion with Pledge, polishing it off as he went ,I must emphasise this was on a Autotrail, on a Motor cycle forum there too people where debating the use of Pledge,some using it on their helmets as well as on the bikes others used it on the visor,s too,I have searched on this forum to see if anyone had used it but only came up with Terrytraveller ,who had any experience of the Product saying it caused glaze cracking on plastic sinks and such, But others are saying the M/H stays cleaner longer when done with Pledge and doesn't collect dirt and grim as much.  Has Anyone used Pledge on the external panels of their Motorhome and what is/was the results

 

[Den]

Interesting one, Ive used pledge on squeaky furniture joints and the interior of the MH but never the outside.

 

I did use it on a Super tiger 6 Kit Car which i built up to a show standard, looked good and smelt nice!!

 

I tended to use Autoglym on all my previous MH's, but the new one that we collected from France a couple of weeks ago I'm thinking of trying a Boat polish, should be made especially for F/G.

Dennis

[Mike B.]

I use Pledge on the bike to give it a 'top' shine but never on the van. Not because of any known ill effects, just that you have to polish it off very quickly or it is a devil to get off and goes dull & streaky. It does repel dirt though and if you just give it a wipe with a duster it shines agiain. Doesn't last very long though if exposed to the elements. It does make it look classy if you are trying to sell it as it adds shine to the wax polish.

On the helmets it tends to make the rain blow off quicker

Mike

[colin]

If as I suspect Pledge is a silicon polish, it will give your MH a 'nonstick' finish, but, if you ever need a paint repair is a bugger to get off.

[first5]

Used to have grp yachts. The best GRP polish I ever used was Farecla but I don't think you can get it now. The next best was Meguliars, I think that's how you spell it. Brilliant stuff and very easy to use. About the same price as auto-glym.

[Keithl]

first5 - 2010-12-29 9:28 PM

The best GRP polish I ever used was Farecla but I don't think you can get it now.

 

Farecla is either owned by the MER Polish company or MER is owned by Farecla. I can't remember which way round it is.

I use MER polish and shampoo on our MH and also use MER Scratch remover which contains Farecla rubbing compound. They are all very good products and IIRC are recommended for fibreglass.

 

Keith.

[ips]

Yes I use it regularily on scooter, MH and car not as long lasting as a coat of "autoglymn" or "dry wash" but good enough, easy and cheap.

[Derek Uzzell]

first5 - 2010-12-29 9:28 PM

 

Used to have grp yachts. The best GRP polish I ever used was Farecla but I don't think you can get it now. The next best was Meguliars, I think that's how you spell it. Brilliant stuff and very easy to use. About the same price as auto-glym.

 

I don't think Farecla products will be readily available in highstreet shops, but they are still widely marketed. See:

 

http://www.force4.co.uk/b/211/Farecla.html?referrer=googleBRFAR&gclid=COaS1cfTk6YCFYUe4QodhFp4ZA

 

Farecla polishes/cleaners used to be (and may still be) recommended by Auto-Sleepers for their GRP monocoque-body motorhomes.

 

I remember that the late Mel Eastburn used to be very wary of polishes that contained silicone (which most do) for use on GRP. I believe this was because tests had suggested that silicone-content polishes could reduce the strength of the lightweight composites of gliders (which Mel E flew), but I don't think this would matter for motorhomes.

 

You can get silicone-free polishes and these seem to be popular within the marine community, but the only genuine negative I've come across regarding silicone-content polishes and GRP is that they should never be used as a release-agent for GRP moulds.

 

I used to use Porzelack polish in the 1980s. It was recommended by Rolls-Royce, was very easy to apply and dissolved difficult-to-remove deposits like tar spots. It eventually became impossible to obtain in the UK and now seems to be marketed primarily in Australia.

 

http://www.porzelack.net.au/index.php

[ips]

Farecla is readily available at any chandlers (marine supplies) good but expensive.

[Paul-]

ips - 2010-12-30 9:53 AM

 

Farecla is readily available at any chandlers (marine supplies) good but expensive.

 

also readily available at motor factors & online,

 

I use the G3 to get scratches out of the plastic windows

 

Paul

[Colin Leake]

Rapido tell you in very large type never to use any polish containing silicon on their motorhomes as it will degrade the gel coat. I do not know if this is specific to the very hard American Gel Coat they use or would apply to all gel coats.

 

We use Starbright Marine polish which is much favoured by dingy racers but in general I would certainly advise playing safe and using good quality marine polish that is specifically designed for GRP. It cost little if anything more than other polishes, is no more difficult to apply and will produce superb long lasting results so why take the risk of using anything else?

[bigal]

Keithl - 2010-12-29 9:43 PM

 

first5 - 2010-12-29 9:28 PM

The best GRP polish I ever used was Farecla but I don't think you can get it now.

 

Farecla is either owned by the MER Polish company or MER is owned by Farecla. I can't remember which way round it is.

I use MER polish and shampoo on our MH and also use MER Scratch remover which contains Farecla rubbing compound. They are all very good products and IIRC are recommended for fibreglass.

 

Keith.

I have always used MER Polish and shampoo on the car and the MH and have always been well satisfied. :-D B-)

[Corky 8]

Many Thanks for your replies, I have decided to try Pledge on the spare Wheel housing which is GRP,  then use Marine type polish on the rest of the conversion as some of you have suggested,and see what the results prove out. Considering the Motorhome only gets washed and waxed a few times in the year,I don't expect any damage resulting from using the pledge ,but will let you know if there is, once again Thank you all.

 

[David Dwight]

Pledge furniture Polish is silicone based and should not be used on GRP finnish, it is also not a particularly good polish to use on Wood fuirniture (that is Proper wood not a wood laminate) Wood needs wax polish, this feeds the wood and keeps it in good condition. Johnsons make a wax polish which would be suitable for GRP, it contains Carnuba wax which is the base of all good wax polishes.

I have spoken to my Son who works for SC Johnson and he confirms that Pledge is Silicone based.

 

David

[Derek Uzzell]

David Dwight - 2011-01-01 11:40 AM

 

Pledge furniture Polish is silicone based and should not be used on GRP finish...

 

David

 

David

 

I don't doubt that Pledge contains silicone, but can you point me to anything authoritative that states that polishes containing silicone should not be used on unpainted GRP surfaces?

 

I note Colin's comment about Rapido's warning, but I've never been able to find any evidence to indicate that silicone-content polishes can damage hardened GRP.

 

I recognise that silicone-free compounds should always be used when polishing moulds from which GRP components will be made.

 

I'm also aware that silicone-free polishes are popular in marine circles, but the reason seems to be because it's difficult to remove silicone polish if a repair is needed rather than the silicone polish actually causing damage. See this link for an example:

 

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2463

 

Even products designed for polishing boats aren't necessarily silicione-free. For instance Meguiar's Boat / RV Pure Wax M5616 on this link

 

http://www.the-shine-shop.com/s/Meguiars-Marine-Waxes-and-Polishes/100

 

In fact most polishes nowadays contain silicone - AutoGlym, Mer, etc. - and even when a 'waxing' product advertises itself as, say, "containing 100% carnauba wax", there's a strong chance that silicone will also be in the formula.

 

(I vaguely remember asking a glass fibre specialist about this years ago and I'm pretty sure his advice was that polishes containing silicone would cause no damage to the top surface of unpainted GRP as long as the surface had properly cured.)

[Derek Uzzell]

While I was looking through my old e-mails, I chanced to find the following, which was within a discussion I had with CYB Glass Fibre in early-2008

 

http://www.cybglassfibre.co.uk/

 

“I was aware that mould release-agents should not contain silicone: also that using a polish containing silicone on a GRP component was inadvisable if there was the possibility that the component might need to be painted at some time in the future.

 

What I was really hoping for was expert advice on whether a polish containing silicone (eg. Mer or Auto-Glym) could actually cause damage to cured, unpainted gel-coat. There are lots of polishes being marketed - mostly aimed at GRP boats - that specifically claim that, being silicone-free, they won't cause harm. The implication behind such statements is that a polish containing silicone can cause damage to GRP. As Mer and Auto-Glym polishes also claim to be safe for use on GRP, I was trying to confirm what the truth of the matter is.”

 

The reply was…

 

“Have spoken with our Technical Advisor Eric and he said no Silicone will harm Gel-Coat if it is cured. He has been in this Business for over forty years.”

[Brian Kirby]

This from "DG Flugzeugbau GmbH, Manufacturer of High-Performance Sailplanes", may be of help/interest.  It bears out Derek's comments that the danger is not actual damage to the GRP or gelcoat, but difficulty in achieving satisfactory damage repairs.  (Seems they'd nicked it from elsewhere, clearly in USA, so I'm assuming no copyright is infringed.)

"The Care and Protection of Polyester Gel Coats"

We found this Article on another homepage and think that it is quite interesting:

Glass, carbon and kevlar reinforced composite structures are widely used for the construction of modern gliders and aircraft. During manufacture the composite structure is encased in a thin shell of white pigmented polyester gel coat. This gelcoat serves two main purposes; it enables a high degree of surface smoothness to be achieved with an accurate profile thus optimizing the aerodynamic qualities, while at the same time protecting the structure from ultraviolet radiation (UV) and water ingress. If left unprotected, the gelcoat is slowly degraded by UV radiation causing the surface to become yellowy and powdery as the gelcoat is oxidized. Gelcoat is not waterproof and free water will permeate through the surface and become absorbed by the structure. Extremes of temperature will then cause the water to either vaporize or freeze cracking the gelcoat.

Early gelcoats such as Schwabbellack were relatively hard and had a long life. However, its hardness meant that considerable time had to be expended during the finishing stages in manufacture to achieve a satisfactory finish. Faced with rapidly increasing labor costs, manufacturers changed to a softer gelcoat (Vorgelat) which significantly reduced the time spent in finishing the glider. Unfortunately, Vorgelat proved less satisfactory and broke down in use. There is some doubt about the exact cause but UV damage and water permeability are factors. Recent advances in gelcoat technology have developed another gelcoat, Scheufler T35, which is both easy to work and offers good resistance to water penetration, and should be more resistant to cracking. Most of the glider manufacturers now use this gelcoat.

In order to help the gelcoat carry out the task of protecting the structure, it needs some help from the glider owner. Firstly, the only way to eliminate UV deterioration is to keep the glider out of the sun. However, by the very nature of gliding this is not practicable and when not actually flying it is of considerable help to store the glider in a covered trailer or hangar. If this is not possible, then the minimum protection should be a set of good wing, tail plane and fuselage covers.

Moisture penetration of the gelcoat can best be minimized by a regular machine buffing with a hard wax. The wax seals the pores of the gelcoat preventing water absorption. It has a side effect that it keeps the surface clean and shiny thus reducing contamination by dust and dirt. The wax coating should be renewed annually in temperate climates and more often in the harsh regimes experienced in Texas, Australia, South Africa and southern Europe.

A further enemy of polyester gelcoats are chlorinated hydrocarbon cleaning solvents. NEVER clean the gelcoat with MEK, Trichloroethylene, Acetone or similar products. The use of any of these will cause permanent damage to the gelcoat. While ethyl alcohol (iso propyl alcohol) or petrol can be used sparingly to clean tape marks from the gelcoat, it is much better to use a 'green' solvent such as De-Solvit or a good silicone free polish such as Car lack or Lesonal. If used regularly, these latter polishes will also provide some protection against UV. Avoid the use of any polish containing silicones as it makes it very difficult to re-finish a scarfed repair on the structure should it ever be necessary.

There is also another hazard which can damage gelcoats and this is as a result of high altitude flights. When flying at high altitudes in wave, the glider structure and gelcoat become very cold. While this does not affect the structural strength of the glider, the gelcoat becomes hard and brittle in the sub-zero temperatures. If the pilot now flies the glider at high speeds, or pulls full air brake while descending, the resultant flexing of the wings can cause chord wise cracks in the gelcoat. If you do carry out high altitude flights, then try and avoid sudden loads that flex the wings, particularly in the descent, while the structure is cold. Slow or stop the descent at warmer levels to allow the structure to warm up before entering the circuit.

Remember the golden rules for gelcoat protection:

• Don't leave your glider out in the sun for long periods without protection.
• Don't store your glider in a damp, moist trailer; either seal the trailer interior during the winter leaving a bag of silica gel in the cockpit, or ensure the trailer is well ventilated.
• Don't put your glider away in the trailer wet; dry it off before de-rigging.
• Ensure that the glider is regularly cleaned and machine buffed with hard wax.
• With a new glider, don't wait until it shows signs of gelcoat deterioration before hard waxing.
• Don't clean off tape marks etc. with chlorinated hydrocarbons; use alcohol or petrol or better still a cleaner such as De-Solvit or polish such as Car Lack or Lesonal.
• Don't use polishes containing silicones.
• If flying at high altitudes in sub-zero temperatures, then avoid flexing the wings by flying or operating the air brakes at high speeds. Slow the descent at the warmer levels to allow the structure to warm up before entering the circuit.
• Look after your gelcoat; tender, loving care will repay you in the long run by maintaining the value of your investment and delaying the considerable cost of renewing the gelcoat surface.

So that you can keep your gelcoat in pristine condition, RD supply a kit, P/No T35/KIT, containing a small quantity of Scheufler T35 Gelcoat with SF2 Hardener that is ideal for touching up small chips on the surface of your gelcoat. Before mixing the T35, clean and degrease the area of the chip with iso- propyl alcohol. Then using a small piece of 240 grade wet and dry paper, carefully abrade the edges of the damaged surface of the chip. Be careful not to damage the surrounding gelcoat surface. Once the hole is clean, mix a small quantity of T35, carefully judging a ratio of 98 parts of gelcoat to 2 parts of 2% SF2 hardener. Mix thoroughly with a small stick such as match stick, taking care that you do not entrain too many air bubbles into the mix. Carefully dribble a small quantity of the well mixed viscous gelcoat into the cleaned chip cavity, leaving the surface slightly proud. Let the mixture harden for at least 12 hours at a minimum temperature of 18øC.

Once hard, carefully rub down the proud surface of the repaired area with 320/400 grade wet and dry wrapped around a wooden or hard rubber block. When it is nearly level with the existing surface, change to 600 grade and continue to rub down very carefully watching very closely to ensure that you do not rub through the existing good surface. Once it is flat, change to 1000/1200 grade paper and carefully finish the whole area. Dry and then polish with Car lack to restore the surface finish.

Take care with the T35 hardener; it is a hazardous liquid (organic peroxide) and is particularly dangerous if it gets into the eyes. If you accidentally get some in your eyes, wash with copious amounts of water and seek medical advice without delay.

[Corky 8]

Thanks again Derek and Brian,

  Brian an in-depth report Thank you, Pledge is definitely a no no, and I will keep my Motorhome well below the suggested altitude in the report,I have used Autoglym for many years albeit on metallic clad Caravan/Van/car paintwork with no problems.my now 11 year old  VW Bora is regularly waxed with it and looks fine,  So Now its a Probe into the best recommended Polish for GRP should it be for marine use or just motor-factor stuff. any suggestions anyone.

 

[David Dwight]

Brian.

I picked up the info regarding Silicone and GRP, off this forum.

 

David

[Derek Uzzell]

Corky 8 - 2011-01-05 4:19 PMThanks again Derek and Brian,

  Brian an in-depth report Thank you, Pledge is definitely a no no, and I will keep my Motorhome well below the suggested altitude in the report,I have used Autoglym for many years albeit on metallic clad Caravan/Van/car paintwork with no problems.my now 11 year old  VW Bora is regularly waxed with it and looks fine,  So Now its a Probe into the best recommended Polish for GRP should it be for marine use or just motor-factor stuff. any suggestions anyone.

These are links to (respectively) 2008, 2007 and 2006 AutoExpress test reports: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/218733/polish_test.htmlhttp://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/207997/car_polish.htmlhttp://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/66316/car_polish_megatest.htmlI'm currently using common-or-garden AutoGlym polish (probably because I saw some cheap!) and that's OK.Don't forget that there's a difference between 'polishing' and 'waxing' products, with the former containing an abrasive. This may not matter too much on painted metal, painted GRP, or even unpainted GRP, but you really have to be careful with those Hobby motorhomes (like mine) where much of the pretty 'paintwork' is actually sticky-backed plastic.

[oldlowie]

Slightly off-topic, but anyone staying at the Baltic Wharf CC site in Bristol will find a Force 4 shop 5 minutes walk away along the waterfront... B-)

[tonyishuk]

I am a Mer man myself (usually obtainable from caravan dealers (The Mer not me!)

 

A couple of useful products to know about and use are from the Fenwicks range. They are Fenwicks Motorhome Cleaner and Bobby Dazler.

 

Having a 24 ft m/home , it is a job that I undertake lightly to clean

*-)

 

I use a pressure jet with a shampoo attachment to spray the cleaner on to the m/home.

 

Let the cleaner rest a while to soak into the dirt.

 

Use a waterbrush or ladder and elbow gease and hose to remove the dirt.

 

Finish of by spraying the M/home with Bobby Dazler and wiping off. I use a soft headed mop on a pole.

 

It is not the same as a good old clean and polish, but a useful halfway house to keep up apperances !

 

Rgds

 

 

[Big Momma]

I have used MER, Auto Glym and Fenwicks Motorhome Cleaner/Bobby Dazzler. All work very well and leave van nice and shiny. However, I have found that MER tends to repel dirt better and it is easier to get rid of the dead flies in summer. Cannot offer any good reason why this should be the case as I do not consciously apply anymore MER polish than the others. the other product that i use as a pre-wash on those horrible black streaks is 'Muck Off'. It comes in a spray bottle and you just spray it on the affected area and then wipe it off and the streaks just disappear. The other thing that i tend to do is when I have finished polishing off the wax I use the same cloth to clean my cab side windows and door mirrors (NOT THE WINDSHIELD), the remnant of the wax on the cloth obviously leaves a thin film so that water just beads and rolls off. Works well on the lights as well ;-)

[Corky 8]

Derek Uzzell - 2011-01-05 6:31 PM

Corky 8 - 2011-01-05 4:19 PM Thanks again Derek and Brian,
  Brian an in-depth report Thank you, Pledge is definitely a no no, and I will keep my Motorhome well below the suggested altitude in the report,I have used Autoglym for many years albeit on metallic clad Caravan/Van/car paintwork with no problems.my now 11 year old  VW Bora is regularly waxed with it and looks fine,  So Now its a Probe into the best recommended Polish for GRP should it be for marine use or just motor-factor stuff. any suggestions anyone.

These are links to (respectively) 2008, 2007 and 2006 AutoExpress test reports: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/218733/polish_test.html http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/207997/car_polish.html http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/66316/car_polish_megatest.html I'm currently using common-or-garden AutoGlym polish (probably because I saw some cheap!) and that's OK. Don't forget that there's a difference between 'polishing' and 'waxing' products, with the former containing an abrasive. This may not matter too much on painted metal, painted GRP, or even unpainted GRP, but you really have to be careful with those Hobby motorhomes (like mine) where much of the pretty 'paintwork' is actually sticky-backed plastic.

What was I thought, a simple task of choosing the right Polish/Wax has now got me completely confused as to what to use, Thank you Derek those links were very informative yet bewildering , couldn't decide on the best product, then when I did The thought of these polishes are for Car paintwork came to mind so are they right , I know paint for GRP is different to that used on Metallic bodied cars therefore should the Polish/Wax Reflect that, ????. I mix my own Beeswax  Polish for the internal woodwork (not the paper coloured stuff ) which I add Lavender oil to and I,m pleased with the results I get from that, maybe time to look at experimenting with carnauba and beeswax mix for the external bodywork.   Thanks all.

[Derek Uzzell]

Corky 8 - 2011-01-06 4:35 PM

 

What was I thought, a simple task of choosing the right Polish/Wax has now got me completely confused as to what to use, Thank you Derek those links were very informative yet bewildering , couldn't decide on the best product, then when I did The thought of these polishes are for Car paintwork came to mind so are they right , I know paint for GRP is different to that used on Metallic bodied cars therefore should the Polish/Wax Reflect that, ????. I mix my own Beeswax  Polish for the internal woodwork (not the paper coloured stuff ) which I add Lavender oil to and I,m pleased with the results I get from that, maybe time to look at experimenting with carnauba and beeswax mix for the external bodywork.   Thanks all.

 

If you are suffering from 'choice stress', then I suggest you try Meguiar’s Cleaner Wax.

 

This is Meguiar's website

 

http://www.meguiars.co.uk/home/

 

and there's a Stockist Locator on it.

 

(I believe you don't need to worry about possible paint differences.)