Brambles Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Thanks Derek, very much appeciated. Explains why cannot find if Auto4 is down, I will try phoning them. I have emailed Schrader a few times but still no reply. I might give them a phone as well. Do you know what model of schrader valve they sent... if they are same as I have and you are happy to I could buy 5 from you. Jon. edit - usual spelling mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Jon, I suspect Derek's contact was some time ago, and they may have gone thorough a metamorphosis (which might explaing the website issue). They aren't listed locally under Auto4, but intriguingly are listed under "Tyre Valve Specialists Ltd" at the same address and number. Looks like it is still worth a try. (I know Nunn Brook Rise well, a good few years ago I commissioned the large buliding at the end of the road ............ but I can't tell you what it is. 8-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Thanks Robin. Just phoned them, yes change of name but still answer phone as auto4. They are sending me a catalog so I can identify exact part I need as numbers seem to have changed. Also phoned Schrader UK, the valve I have at present (original) they have never stocked or shipped in UK, but they can get as a box of 10 but will take a couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Brambles - 2011-05-17 10:33 AM Thanks Derek, very much appeciated. Explains why cannot find if Auto4 is down, I will try phoning them. I have emailed Schrader a few times but still no reply. I might give them a phone as well. Do you know what model of schrader valve they sent... if they are same as I have and you are happy to I could buy 5 from you. Jon. edit - usual spelling mistakes. Sorry, can't help as I gave the 'free' valves away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Derek, No worries. I can get the Schrader ones for about £22 delivered but will take a couple of weeks. Auto4 have the alligator ones and schrader also gave me the name PTA in Shrewsbury to contact. So at least now I have plenty sources for getting something. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Hi. Maybe worth having a look at. Ebay have three different types of metal clamp in tyre valves. 1-- item nunber 250804594235. rim hole 13mm, length 30 mm, pk 4 £10 + £3 pp. 2-- item number 320691813677, rim hole 11.3 mm, length 42mm, pk 4 £7.95 inc pp. 3-- item number 320691236526, aluminium, rim hole11.3mm, length 38 mm, pk 4 £ 7.95 inc pp. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Thanks for the info Brian, but am going to wait for the Alligator catalog and if they do not have equivalent to the Schrader I have currently then will order the schrader ones. I always believe in replacing like for like unless there is a known problem or an impovement can be made. The cost is not an issue. This is what I am trying to get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Brambles - 2011-05-18 12:09 AM Thanks for the info Brian, but am going to wait for the Alligator catalog and if they do not have equivalent to the Schrader I have currently then will order the schrader ones. I always believe in replacing like for like unless there is a known problem or an impovement can be made. The cost is not an issue. This is what I am trying to get I find that I've still got one of the 'freebie' Schrader valves. The diameter of the base is around 17.5mm and it's intended for the normal 11.3mm diameter 'wheel-rim hole'. The distance from the top of the metal base to the top of stem is 40mm and the length of the clamping-nut is 15mm (yours looks a good deal longer than that). The rubber seal at the base of my valve also differs from your picture, which gives the impression that your valve might employ an O-ring seal rather than the 'stepped collet' used on mine. In fact, I have a couple of Schrader valves with O-ring seals of the type that were installed by a French tyre-fitter when I had the OE HP rubber snap-in tyre-valves fail on my Transit. These valves are un-plated brass and (I subsequently established and was far from pleased about) are designed for a 9.7mm diameter 'lorry' wheel-rim hole, not a 11.3mm one. Fortunately, despite being the wrong valves for Transit wheels, they did make an effective seal long enough for me to get home and get them swapped for the correct wheel-rim-diameter valves. The Alligator equivalent of the fitted-in-France O-ring valves would be Alligator part-code 770503. Although the unplated 9.7mm valves have a part-code stamped in their stem that does identify them as Schrader-manufactured, the nickel-plated 11.3mm valves Schrader gave me were unboxed and have no markings to identify either their maker or the part-number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Hi again Derek. The problem I have is if the nut is shorter and the flats are of the same size as picture I have shown, I cannot get a tube or socket spanner in to tighten them so cannot be torqued up, also the flats may actually foul the hub part of the steel wheel. The shoulder part at the bottom having a recessed seal has a big advantage for steel wheels as far as I can work out. You clamp them up until the shoulder contacts the wheels so one is not relying on the rubber compression. to hold them, and also means they have no movement at all so Seal is never disturbed and if teh rubber relaxes teh valve wil not come loose. For Alloy wheels I would think one needs a shoulder of rubber so valve body is unsulated from the alloy to prevent corrosion, along with a plastic washer on the nut side. I also have stupid, well should not call them stupid but, original full size ducato wheel trims and currently the valves as shown above can just be reached to remove the cap and place a pump or gauge on but only just. Any shorter and I can not get my fingers in to remove the valve cap, I already sometimes drop it behind the trim and is a devil to get out. I have also found there are many varients of rubber used for seals, from natural rubber to silicon, and Nitrile to Hi-nitrile and also EPDM all with various max temperature characteristics and permannent deformation properties. If I could identify the material used for the seals and what is best, and I have no idea what is best, I could just buy O rings from an industrial supplier. So the easy option to me if I want to guarantee quality is to buy from a reputable source such as Schrader or Alligator who supply large vehicle manufactures, and pick one similar to I have. There is absolutely no way I would buy a metal valve stem from an unknown chinese source not knowing what quality controls they have in place like many seem to do, same as I would not buy unbranded unknown sourced brake pads or tyres...and I suspect you have the same attitiude as me on this. Going to sit down now and eat my late lunch Chicken Coronation salad roll now, it look scrummy!! and stop havering on probably making no sense at all. Do appreciate your responses Derek, and all others. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Brambles - 2011-05-18 1:40 PM Hi again Derek. The problem I have is if the nut is shorter and the flats are of the same size as picture I have shown, I cannot get a tube or socket spanner in to tighten them so cannot be torqued up, also the flats may actually foul the hub part of the steel wheel. The shoulder part at the bottom having a recessed seal has a big advantage for steel wheels as far as I can work out. You clamp them up until the shoulder contacts the wheels so one is not relying on the rubber compression. to hold them, and also means they have no movement at all so Seal is never disturbed and if teh rubber relaxes teh valve wil not come loose. For Alloy wheels I would think one needs a shoulder of rubber so valve body is unsulated from the alloy to prevent corrosion, along with a plastic washer on the nut side. I also have stupid, well should not call them stupid but, original full size ducato wheel trims and currently the valves as shown above can just be reached to remove the cap and place a pump or gauge on but only just. Any shorter and I can not get my fingers in to remove the valve cap, I already sometimes drop it behind the trim and is a devil to get out. I have also found there are many varients of rubber used for seals, from natural rubber to silicon, and Nitrile to Hi-nitrile and also EPDM all with various max temperature characteristics and permannent deformation properties. If I could identify the material used for the seals and what is best, and I have no idea what is best, I could just buy O rings from an industrial supplier. So the easy option to me if I want to guarantee quality is to buy from a reputable source such as Schrader or Alligator who supply large vehicle manufactures, and pick one similar to I have. There is absolutely no way I would buy a metal valve stem from an unknown chinese source not knowing what quality controls they have in place like many seem to do, same as I would not buy unbranded unknown sourced brake pads or tyres...and I suspect you have the same attitiude as me on this. Going to sit down now and eat my late lunch Chicken Coronation salad roll now, it look scrummy!! and stop havering on probably making no sense at all. Do appreciate your responses Derek, and all others. Jon. The Schrader valves I was given had the flats of the clamping-nut 'proud' of the nut's sleeve (as in your picture). Although I was able to butcher a cheap 14mm tube-spanner so that the flats could be reached in the deep recess of a Transit Mk 6''s rim-profile so that the clamping-nut could be tightened, I didn't much care for this. That's primarily why I chose the Alligator valve from Auto4 as the 11mm flats of that particular design were within the overall diameter of the nut's sleeve, as shown in the top-left example on this link: http://www.alligator-ventilfabrik.de/index.php?Passenger_car With this design of clamping-nut, if the nut's sleeve doesn't foul anything, then the nut's flats won't either. I can't comment on the relative merits of O-ring sealing versus stepped-collet, but the latter seems to be standard for tyre valves intended for 11.3mm diameter (and above) wheel-rim holes, while the former is usually used for valves intended for smaller diameter wheel-rim holes. My understanding was that this was mainly a matter of technical necessity, as a stepped-collet in a small diameter wheel-rim hole would be a pretty skimpy thing. I also suspect that the stepped-collet is more forgiving regarding roughness/irregularity in the wheel-rim hole area. You can, of course, get valves with stems slightly longer than 38mm if this would be advantageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Well it seems my choice is down to the shorter alligator ones with smaller flats or the expensive Schrader ones. Not all that is listed on the Alligator site is in the catalog or available anymore. No wonder the girl could not find the numbers I reeled off to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Am I right in thinking this thread only applies to you fat campers :D ............ie over 3.5 ton (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aultymer Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 pelmetman - 2011-05-18 7:23 PM Am I right in thinking this thread only applies to you fat campers :D ............ie over 3.5 ton (lol) My gut feeling is that all vans/vehicles would be safer with metal valves - but that is just based on my experience with very old standard valves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Am I right in thinking this thread only applies to you fat campers ie over 3.5 ton Hi, Most certainly not. It applies to all campers with camping tyres or tyres with high pressures. I would say at a guess anything over 45psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 pelmetman - 2011-05-18 7:23 PM Am I right in thinking this thread only applies to you fat campers :D ............ie over 3.5 ton (lol) If I remember correctly, your Autohomes Travelhome has 225/70 R15C tyres ( 6-ply rated as original equipment) and the recommended 'full-load' inflation pressures will be around 41psi (front) and 53psi(rear). Ford never fitted high-pressure tyre valves to pre-Mk 6 Transits and ordinary 'car' snap-in rubber valves should be fine for your motorhome. Conversely, any good quality metal clamp-in valve should be inherently 'safer' than any cheap basic snap-in valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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