Chinese scooters

[DonB]

Thinking of buying a 125cc 4 stroke scooter to put on the back of the motorhome. Does anybody have any knowledge of the scooters made by the Lifan factory in China, imported into this country by Zingbikes?Have looked at one and for the usage we expect to give it, it seems good value for money, compared to the Japanese ones. DonB

[dawki]

Hi Don

I worked on a building site last year and the painter had a new Chinese scooter he traveled about 10 miles each way 5 days a week.

the bike was ok at first but only lasted about 10 months and then was more trouble than it was worth.

 

he went out and bought a 5 years old Honda and found it so much better.

 

[John Anne]

Hi DonB,

 

My experience of these is that you get what you pay for - which usually means cheap.

 

You could be lucky and get one that goes ok for years or you could get a lemon! Also don't forget that straight forward parts can also be a problem to source.

 

My advice would be to seriously consider the longer term benefits of buying Japanese, most of the major manufacturers provide good backup and you are more likely to get parts both in the UK and abroad if ever the need arose.

 

Good luck.

 

Regards,

John & Anne.

[terry1956]

hi DON,T BUY ONE. you can not get the spare parts or service items, no matter what the dealer says. Just don,t buy one, total waste of money.

michael

[kenny]

Ive had one for 3 1/2 years and had no problem at all and spare parts are easy to come by and a lot cheaper. The main thing to do is change the plug as they are not very good. You get a lot of people saying they are rubbish but I have had honda and yamaha bikes and you get bad onesof these also. I paid £600 pound for mine so I reckon I have not lost anything I bought 2 at the time one for my son which I sold on ebay for £300 last September. If only this £55,000 fiat ducato 160 multijet was half as good as a chinese bike

[Guest JudgeMental]

Agree, you only get what you pay for. It may be OK but dont expect it to last or retain any value like a Japenese bike...they are light years ahead.

[ips]

Ours is a known and respected make, Piagio which is part of vespa and an Italian marque but guess were its made......yep, china.

I think that if you pay considerably less than a jap one and it does the job then you can look on it as disposable, lets face it your not going to do many miles on it are you so if you get a 3 years out of it its only cost a few hundred quid a year.

[neilmac]

If you only want to potter about then a carefully selected Chinese scooter can be great value.

 

In our example we bought a 10 year old Starway 125 on Ebay for £360 - 2500 miles from new with all MOTs and in great nick, its a 4 stroke water cooled motor and still only weighs 115kgs.

 

It spends most of its time on the back of the motorhome in all weathers.

 

At that sort of money it is a disposable item if it all goes wrong.

[neilmac]

If you only want to potter about then a carefully selected Chinese scooter can be great value.

 

In our example we bought a 10 year old Starway 125 on Ebay for £360 - 2500 miles from new with all MOTs and in great nick, its a 4 stroke water cooled motor and still only weighs 115kgs.

 

It spends most of its time on the back of the motorhome in all weathers.

 

At that sort of money it is a disposable item if it all goes wrong.

[Barryd999]

It was my local dealer who put me off the Chinese stuff and he sells them! He knew the sort of punishment our bike gets and felt it wasnt up to the job.

 

We have a Peugeot but I would love a new Honda but they are too heavy (at the moment, see new van thread)

 

If you travel around the EU a lot its a good idea to make sure you can get parts etc abroad. I thought on our first trip to France I would have no problem with a Peugeot Speedfight 100cc. Wrong! 50cc maybe but the 100cc is not well used in France. I needed a drive belt and none of the 7 dealers in the south of France could get one in less than two weeks! (Maybe they dont have couriers in France I dont know) so I ended up getting the part shipped from my dealer in the UK to a garage in Albi who then prompty shut for 3 days over the weekend and Monday.

[DonB]

Thank you everyone for your opinions and information. It is much appreciated. I'm looking now at Taiwanese and Japanese scooters. Wish us luck!!

[ChrisK5]

Forget them, they are nothing but trouble.

As a very experienced biker (I ride sports and touring bikes) i would recommend that you buy a Honda, they have a very good build quality and i've never known one to break down.

My advise would to buy a bike of minimum 250cc, otherwise it will struggle on steep inclines, of which there are a lot of here in the south west.

 

[Mike B.]

From these replies it sounds as though the Chinese 'theme' runs through a lot of things

It appears the scooters are a bit like the meals-very nice at first and quite (full)filling but in a short space of time you feel you need another one!

On saying that we had one a while back and it was fine-mind you only did about 1000km in total so maybe that's why. Was underpowered compared to the Japs as well

Mike :-D

[Guest zing_bikes]

Hi Don

 

How did your bike hunting go? I’m writing from ZingBikes HQ in Cambridgeshire, we’ve just seen your post.

 

At ZingBikes, we are always trying to change negative perceptions of Chinese motorcycles and scooters, and we’ve got an ever-growing network of accredited dealers in the UK now selling our Lifan and Shineray bikes. We know that in the past, getting hold of spare parts for Chinese bikes has sometimes been a problem, so we offer our dealers a full range of spares as well as parts and labour warranty.

 

Interestingly, we recently exhibited our bikes at the National Motorhome Show! The best scooter we have for your situation would be the Aero 125cc 4 stroke.

 

http://www.zingbikes.com/acatalog/aero125_white.JPG

 

If you need any more info, give us a call on 0845 555 1234

 

Look forward to hearing from you

[BGD]

zing_bikes - 2011-06-28 5:22 PM

 

Hi Don

 

How did your bike hunting go? I’m writing from ZingBikes HQ in Cambridgeshire, we’ve just seen your post.

 

At ZingBikes, we are always trying to change negative perceptions of Chinese motorcycles and scooters, and we’ve got an ever-growing network of accredited dealers in the UK now selling our Lifan and Shineray bikes. We know that in the past, getting hold of spare parts for Chinese bikes has sometimes been a problem, so we offer our dealers a full range of spares as well as parts and labour warranty.

 

Interestingly, we recently exhibited our bikes at the National Motorhome Show! The best scooter we have for your situation would be the Aero 125cc 4 stroke.

 

http://www.zingbikes.com/acatalog/aero125_white.JPG

 

If you need any more info, give us a call on 0845 555 1234

 

Look forward to hearing from you

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry mate - but if you're going to use this forum as a personal sales pitch, then people here should be aware of the other side of the story; it is utter mechanical; and electrical rubbish that you're touting, disguised as a real motorscooter.

 

A friend of mine was stupid enough to buy a Lifan cheapo Chinese scooter last year - it has fallen apart already.

 

He saved maybe 500 quid by buying it, rather than a getting a Honda/Suzuki etc real one.

It has rusted, terribly, right from day one.

The electrics went every time it rained, it let him down literally in the middle of no-where half a dozen times, the fit and finish is utterly dire.

Water has got into the instrument console and blown it up. Then the same thing happened to thr replacment console - and now the engine has siezed up.

All in less than a year. In under 2,000 miles.

All nuts and bolts on the thing are made out of cheese.

There are cracks in the rear mudguard plastic from vibration.

It is utterly awful and simply totally unfit for purpose.

The heap of rubbish is now sitting in his shed, he is refusing to waste more time on yet more repairs on it and instead he's been trying to simply get his money back for months.

 

 

Now, I recognise that this is only one bike that I personally know of, and have seen myself close-up.

 

But I'm also a member of several on-line motorbike and scooter forums.

The reputation of these chinese machines, built down to a rock bottom price, is simply dire.

 

 

 

 

[DonB]

Hello zingbikes! I have sent you a Private Message.

[urbanracer]

Hi, I have also sent a Pm to Zing.

looking forward to a reply :-D

[BGD]

Some words of caution chaps.

 

Do you REALLY think you are actually going to get a decent, reliable, properly engineered, high-quality component and materials, long-lasting, rigorously tested, assembled to the highest international quality standards, 125cc scooter, brand new, for an all-in, on the road price of £1275 if you buy one of these Lifan things?

And you REALLY think there's also a massive network of servicing places all over the UK where all the spares that you'll be needing as bits rot, break, fall off, blow up, seize, strip, crack, fade, rust and wither will actually be available?

Really?

 

Hellooooo?

The cheapest Honda 125i scooter (the Innova) comes in at just over 2000 quid...that's the very cheapest, and Honda build and sell gazillions of them worldwide, so the unit costs are very very low.

 

 

 

 

 

But enough about the awful Lifan products. Do a bit of digging about the Company trying to offload them on you:

 

"Zingbikes are not a company at all.

The name is just a trading name of another Company called Encocam Ltd.

That Company was formed in 1985 under a completely different name, and has had a VERY chequered past since then.

It changed its name in 1988 to Gemmaine Ltd.

Then another name change in August 2008 to Cellbond Composites Ltd.

Then yet another name change within the past 3 years to Encocam Ltd.

 

Their website is interesting as well - try actually checking out some of the "current national network of dealers and service centres" that they list.

I did so.

The first one of their "current dealers" that I tried actually went out of business last February. They were a company that sold and maintained lawnmowers.

The website of the next "current dealer" that Zingbikes directed me too is "no longer available"

Same with the third that I tried.

Same with the fifth too.

I did actually manage to get through to the 6th. They are a small motorbike training operation based out of a private house. They neither sell nor service bikes.

I was also lucky enough to get through to the website of the 7th - they sell only Yamaha and Suzki motorbikes. No mention of their supposed link to all this chinese junk at all.

 

The I tried the " dealer" who had given such a glowing testimonial of Zingbikes on the Zingbikes website.....Their postcode is at the bottom of that testimonial.....but Zingbikes own "dealer locator" says that there is in fact no such dealer in that area.

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

Their last item of "news" on the website dates back to early 2010.

 

Earlier news items gives their address as:

Unit B1, Spitfire Close, Ermine Business Park, Huntingdon, PE29 6XY

 

But their address seems also to have changed in the past year or so to:

22 Stonehill, Stukeley Meadows Industrial Estate, Huntingdon, PE29 6DR

 

Yet their registered address at Companies House is different again:

5 STUKELEY BUSINESS CENTRE

BLACKSTONE ROAD

HUNTINGDON

CAMBRIDGESHIRE

PE18 6EF

 

 

 

 

 

Given all of this information, my own personal view is that I would avoid them, and their "Lifan" chinese copy-bikes, like the plague.

That is of course only a personal view, others remain free to risk throwing their money down the toilet or dying whilst attempting to push one the 12 miles home, on a dark rainy night for the sixth time, if they so wish.

 

 

 

 

[snail]

bgd, i guess you don't like them?

don, i have a honda innova on my hymer and is very good 06 5700miles still going strong just had mot this week, examiner said just like new no problems, about 100kgs and very narrow, so good to get close to back of van, not very inspiring but good and reliable, take wife on it s well, happy at about 45mph and getting 100mpg, also a suzuki similar called an address, virtually the same 4 speed with auto clutch same as old honda 90, hope this helps good luck, brian

[BGD]

We too use a Honda Innova 125 on a rack on the back of our motorhome - fantastic piece of kit.

 

50mph or more, two-up.

Utterly bulletproof, and totally reliable.

So simple to self-maintain.

Only about 107 kgs.

[Clive]

And where do you think most ofthe parts for Honda bikes get made?

 

C.

 

[rupert123]

Clive - 2011-06-29 11:33 AM

 

And where do you think most ofthe parts for Honda bikes get made?

 

C.

 

Clive, most genuine Honda parts, both car and bike, are still made by Honda many in whatever country the factory is situated. For example Honda Civic car engines are built in Swindon but all to the very strict Honda specifications. It would not matter if they were made in China the spec would still be the same. The country of manufacture does not really matter it is the specification laid down that does. Many of the bikes being mentioned are made to low specification and price reflects this but this is customer choice. also the spares situation that has been mentioned can be of some concern. Personally I would not have one, another vote for the Honda Innova, but would go for a secondhand bike with a known pedigree.

[BGD]

Clive - 2011-06-29 11:33 AM

 

And where do you think most ofthe parts for Honda bikes get made?

 

C.

 

 

Sorry Clive, you're missing the point I think.

 

Whether or not components are manufactured in China is NOT the issue.

The issue is to what standard, and of what grade materials, and to what standard of product quality, are those components produced.

 

Cheapo chinese copy bikes are made from alloy that is like cheese. the nuts and bolts are like cheese. Bearing assemblies made of soap. Low grade plastics. Poorer castings from poorer metals, looser tolerance machining, Etc etc etc.

 

Because it's all about gettting the price down to rock bottom, predominantly to satisfy their home market which can only afford really really cheap bikes as transport; not about setting and rigorously maintaining a client-defined and enforced global quality standard, together with component full-life testing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

One example:

For a few years I worked for a UK/German group of Companies that designed and manufactured vehicle electrical switches.

They were a tiered supplier to most of the big name automotive assemblers: Ford, GM. Rover, Toyota, Nissan etc.

Within the automotive supply industry component quality is measured be technical fitness for purpose, and also by failure rates in "ppm" (parts per million).

Rovers supplier line-side quality standard was 200 parts per million.

Toyota would not allow any supplier to continue to supply if their failure rate exceed 20 parts per million.

That was a TEN-TIMES higher quality standard than Rovers.

 

Rover cars broke down. A lot. Bits fell off. Bits stopped working.

Toyota cars do not break down. Ever. They have, consistently, the best reliability ratings, globally, of any vehicle manufacturer.

It was mostly the same supply chain in both cases, but a VERY different quality standard demanded by the customer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pkc]

Confucius he say,

Good not cheap. cheap not good, only poor fools buy poor tools

Blitish Reyrand was clap.

[BGD]

Dunno if this will help any of you guys who are debating which scooter to get, but by co-incidence I heard from my brother in the UK this afternoon (he who has just last week bought his first motorhome!), that he's just also bought a Honda Innova 125i to go on a rack on the back of it too - as well as for bimbling around locally when they are not away in the van i suspect.

 

He's getting it from one of the UK Honda dealers who advertise nationally via ebay:

Brand new Innova 125i, in silver, with rack and top-box thrown in as extras, pre-delivery inspection, 12 months tax, full tank of fuel, full Honda UK warranty, and delivery to his front door, on a Saturday; all for £1945.