Poppy Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Just wanted to say this.Some of the photos of the youngsters killed were being shown on the news,Brought it home.Young people at the start of their lives just enjoying their summer.Many that survived will be traumatized for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Please Amanda (OAL Moderator) could we have this thread 'switched to the 'Chatterbox' section, where we can all 'chip in' with our thoughts and comments if we wish. it really has nothing to do with motorhomes -- highly laudable as poppy's comments are. Thanks, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Well said Poppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Well said Colin. :-) Plus, if you really wish to convey your condolences to the Norwegians, might a Norwegian website not be more appropriate? I am sure no-one would quarrel with your sentiments, but what, really, is the point of sticking them up on a British motorhome forum? Are we now to comment on everything that happens in the world? Sorry to sound dismissive, or unsympathetic: I am not. But surely there has to be some discipline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 " Are we now to comment on everything that happens in the world ? " asks Brian. Well, why not. The Chatterbox section is headed 'chat about anything and everything' :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Moved to Chatterbox... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 OAL Moderator - 2011-07-27 4:58 PM Moved to Chatterbox... Thanks for the response. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 malc d - 2011-07-27 4:22 PM " Are we now to comment on everything that happens in the world ? " asks Brian. Well, why not. The Chatterbox section is headed 'chat about anything and everything' :-| Yep, I know Malc, but it started its life in Motorhome Matters, and it was the posting into that forum that provoked my grumpy comment! Then some clever s*d moved it! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 What sickens me even more than the atrocities he committed, is the scumbag lawyer who is accepting payment to defend him. Even putting forward a plea of insanity. At least the Norwegian government are trying to push through laws to enable them to pass a lengthier sentance than is currently allowed, showing that they actually care about their citizens. Camerclown and his sidekick would do well to take notes, what did they do to the terrorists who plotted the terror attacks in London, paid them compensation because some nasty men shouted at them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 donna miller - 2011-07-27 7:37 PM What sickens me even more than the atrocities he committed, is the scumbag lawyer who is accepting payment to defend him. Even putting forward a plea of insanity. At least the Norwegian government are trying to push through laws to enable them to pass a lengthier sentance than is currently allowed, showing that they actually care about their citizens. Camerclown and his sidekick would do well to take notes, what did they do to the terrorists who plotted the terror attacks in London, paid them compensation because some nasty men shouted at them . I think you are a bit ahead of the game Donna. His lawyer has not yet entered a plea of insanity, he merely said that he thought he might be. Strangely, as the killer hates Norways labour party, and set about killing it's future members, he has hired a lawyer who is said to be a prominent member of Norways Labour party. I don't think you will find that they are " pushing through laws" - their idea is to charge him with crimes against humanity, instead of murder, as that carries a heavier sentence in Norway than a murder conviction. ( Apparently murderers in Norway are let off with a maximum of 21 years ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Of course we all feel deep sympathy for the families of those affected and for the Norwegian people who have handled it with a dignity that does them proud. If he hated the labour party - and that I can empathise with - such a shame he did not have the balls to attack the adults running the country rather than the innocent youth. It was premeditated and designed against a very soft target and with luck he will get a very rough ride in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkc Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Tracker, 27 July 2011 8:12 PM “If he hated the labour party - and that I can empathise with - such a shame he did not have the balls to attack the adults running the country rather than the innocent youth.” What reason do you think he would have to attack the elected government? Why do you think it was a shame he did not? What exactly were they guilty of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I don't think that he hired that defence lawyer at all....and I don't think that the defence lawyer is a scumbag; he is simply a criminal law expert performing his State-appointed role in order to ensure a fair (in a legal sense) trial. Under their constitution, any person accused of any crime has the right to a defence lawyer - either their own, or one appointed by the State. In this case, as I understand it, the defence lawyer was appointed by the State. This is the same process as would happen in England. I saw the lawyer being interviewed; he said that he wrestled for many hours over whether to accept this brief; but in the end decided that it was vital for his country that they dealt with this criminal in a dignified, legally fair way, to show that Norway was a true democratic and fair country - I actually think he was very brave to accept the "poison chalice" of this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryowlgirl Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Our thought are with the families and friends at this sad time, what a horrid thing to happen. Its heart rending to even think about the carnage never mind seeing it.. R.I.P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 pkc - 2011-07-27 10:29 PM Tracker, 27 July 2011 8:12 PM “If he hated the labour party - and that I can empathise with - such a shame he did not have the balls to attack the adults running the country rather than the innocent youth.” What reason do you think he would have to attack the elected government? Why do you think it was a shame he did not? What exactly were they guilty of? My thoughts exactly. Why on earth would Tracker empathise with the killers' hatred of the Norwegian labour party. Theyve been in power for many many years so it seems the Norwegian people are happy with them. And he says it's " such a shame that they did not have the balls to attack adults" !!! Who does he think the bomb in Oslo was aimed at ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 One of the hard won rights we have of living in a free world is to be tried by our peers and to have legal defence should we be accused of doing something wrong. If we want to be tried by a despot and have no right to representation???????????? If we start changing the rules so that we can select who is tried by our peers and who gets a defence lawyer, then we degenerate into a police state. I am amazed that some regularly seem to want the freedom to do and say what they want but then seem quite keen on taking away the rights of others when they see fit! The lawyer is not a scumbag - he is a professional carrying out the duties as laid down in law to protect the individual - whatever that individual has done, however abhorrent. Because Norway is a small country that has never had such an atrocity inflicted upon it, it seems that a sentence of a max of 21 years with possible le parole at 12 years hardly seems to fit the nature of the crime. Little wonder then that the Norwegians are looking to their laws to charge him with something "on the books" that does fit the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 CliveH - 2011-07-28 7:03 AM The lawyer is not a scumbag - Your opinion , mine differs, so please accept my right to an opinion as I have accepted yours. ! He had a choice as whether to represent or not, he chose to accept the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 My opinion is that he is not a "scumbag" simply because he accepts a legal requirement in his country to represent an individual on trial. Whilst I will defend your right to have your opinion Donna - what i find hard to take is your continued labelling others as a "scumbag" for example because they do something or say something (in one case an "arsehole") purely because they said something or do something you disagreed with! Talk about pot calling kettle black! And that is my opinion - so please grant me the same right of opinion that you demand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 What he did was beyond normal murder. Attrocity does not even come close to describing it. He was filmed and admitted what he did. Why does he need a defence other than as a "front man" because their law requires it. In my simple mind if 21 years is the punishment for murder then why not multiply that by the number of murders committed. Too simple I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Have to say I think the same as you Porky I have long said that for mass murder the sentencing should be cumulative rather than concurrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 CliveH - 2011-07-28 9:00 AM My opinion is that he is not a "scumbag" simply because he accepts a legal requirement in his country to represent an individual on trial. Whilst I will defend your right to have your opinion Donna - what i find hard to take is your continued labelling others as a "scumbag" for example because they do something or say something (in one case an "arsehole") purely because they said something or do something you disagreed with! Talk about pot calling kettle black! And that is my opinion - so please grant me the same right of opinion that you demand! I assume by that statement you class me as a scumbag, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I do no such thing! Donna - you said - and I quote:- "Your opinion , mine differs, so please accept my right to an opinion as I have accepted yours. ! " To this I say that anyone who demands that they can have an opinion but that anyone who challenges that opinion is a "scumbag" or an "arsehole" is a good example of "pot kettle black" and you make an assumption that I am labelling you a scumbag! Amazing! I really do find your "assumptions" very strange Donna I do not like the labelling of others as scumbags or arseholes. I have not called you anything at all - nor would I. I find it amazing that you can have a pop at me because "you assume" (i.e. are making up) that I am labelling you a scumbag when the evidence is clear that I have done no such thing. Whatever you or I are Donna - on this you are very much mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 CliveH - 2011-07-28 9:00 AM - what i find hard to take is your continued labelling others as a "scumbag" for example because they do something or say something (in one case an "arsehole") purely because they said something or do something you disagreed with! Talk about pot calling kettle black! Your words not mine, no need for assumptions. This ends any interaction with you on this forum in any way, shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkc Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think it does not take a lot ‘balls’ to plant a bomb then run away. Nor does it take a lot of ‘balls’ to pursue and gun down a party of young unarmed teenagers trapped on a secluded island with no police presence, then stand with arms raised in surrender waiting for the police. This act should be seen plainly for what it was, a cowardly gutless killing spree by someone who can not accept the fact that people are entitled to hold different and diverse views that conflict with their own, be they political, religious or whatever. I am stunned that anybody on this forum could think otherwise. I accept that the OP meant this thread as a kindness but the kindest thing that could happen as a mark of respect would be to let this thread quietly fade away and not turn it into a obscene battleground for conflicting personalities or views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Only you could twist those words Donna - words that clearly refer to your demanding the right to your opinion whilst labelling others with differing opinions to yours unsavoury names - into a perceived slight against yourself where no such slight was ever intended or existed. What is sad is that between us we have yet again degenerated a well meaning and worthwhile post of particular importance into a slanging match where you perceive all sorts of assumed slights and I end up trying to defend myself against someone who has more twists and turns than a stick of liquorice and when no slight is given - simply makes one up!. If you can have the self discipline not to respond or call me names or make any assumptions whatsoever about what I say - then so much the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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