fiat ducato van not starting

[Guest Tracker]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-01 6:50 PM

 

Tracker - 2012-01-01 6:46 PM

 

So much for the season of goodwill then!

 

Normal service has been resumed it seems?

 

Come on Tracker,I did wish him a happy new year........................ ;-)

 

Sorry - to save me looking back was that before or after you insulted him!

 

 

Cast away your preconceptions,

 

Try building up some new connections,

 

Give to all any benefit of doubt,

 

What can you lose - I'll tell 'ee - NOWT.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Tracker - 2012-01-01 6:51 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-01 6:50 PM

 

Tracker - 2012-01-01 6:46 PM

 

So much for the season of goodwill then!

 

Normal service has been resumed it seems?

 

Come on Tracker,I did wish him a happy new year........................ ;-)

 

Sorry - to save me looking back was that before or after you insulted him!

 

 

Cast away your preconceptions,

 

Try building up some new connections,

 

Give to all any benefit of doubt,

 

What can you lose - I'll tell 'ee - NOWT.

 

"All the information, and cautions, required are in the first five posts" say's Brian

 

If that's not pretentious I don't know what is, oh well.

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-01 6:37 PM...........................................Not that hard to understand if my offer of help if she lives in my neck of the woods was of any use to her, but according to you she should not have read that far down, and I would have thought that would have been of great assistance, sorry mate, but you really do come across as the most pretentious poster on so many occasions in your postings. Happy New Year

Thank you for the New Year greetings, and mine in return. The only point of dispute seems to be that you took my comment personally, and it was not so intended. I'm sorry about that, but the string just seemed to me to be degenerating into a "t'is" - "t'isn't" bicker, that was of no further help to the OP. So perhaps I should have chosen a cut-off that included your offer, so that you would not have felt I was leaving you out. So, once again, my apologies for that unintended slight.

 

However, the OP doesn't indicate where she lives. Tywyn (from the usual spelling) is about mid way down the west coast of Wales with a population of just under 3,000 (unless you are in the other one, near Conwy, population just under 8,000). I did/do not doubt the sincerity of your offer of help, but with a UK population approaching 65,000,000, and a geographic centre of population way off to the east of where you live, I think it statistically unlikely she would liable to take you up on it.

 

Please also note I am continuing to reply without personal insult, against your present count of two. :-)

[Robinhood]

Brian Kirby - 2012-01-02 12:01 PM

 

However, the OP doesn't indicate where she lives. Tywyn (from the usual spelling) is about mid way down the west coast of Wales with a population of just under 3,000 (unless you are in the other one, near Conwy, population just under 8,000). I did/do not doubt the sincerity of your offer of help, but with a UK population approaching 65,000,000, and a geographic centre of population way off to the east of where you live, I think it statistically unlikely she would liable to take you up on it.

 

 

....oddly enough, Brian, Wendy (or should that be Bob?) probably lives somewhat to the West of Tywyn ( (?) 8-) ), and 1foot may well be one of the closer forum members.

 

Maybe it called for a (rather long) New Year's Day swim (now a lost opportunity). ;-)

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-01 6:56 PM..........................."All the information, and cautions, required are in the first five posts" say's Brian

If that's not pretentious I don't know what is, oh well.

Just for the record: a dictionary definition of a pretentious person: "a person pretending to be someone who he is not, just for the sake of showing that he is a higher intellectual than others".

 

I wrote what I wrote in my own name, against my own mug shot, not claiming intellectual superiority. So I'm sorry, whoever you are (as you hide behind a false persona, I can't address you by name) but it seems you are right: you don't know what "pretentious" is. :-)

 

As I have already said, I had not intended to exclude your post from consideration, mea culpa. If I were now to say that it was by far the most generous, helpful, and overall useful post of all those on this string (including by definition and without reservation all of mine), would you now stop this disagreeable carping, and return to the point?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

God almighty man, just listen to yourself again......

 

It was not being "left out" that I objected too, it was simply your statement, given extra emphasis by being on a single line when you said

 

All the information, and cautions, required are in the first five posts.

 

Just re-read that again.................................................

 

Just ponder that maybe, just maybe there may have been a contribution no matter how small posted after your post that may have helped. I think a little more humility would not go amiss, and God forbid even the idea that none of us have all the knowledge about everything in the known universe, not even you.

 

Oh and thanks for the geography lesson, I had no idea where I lived in relation to the rest of the UK, you never stop learning do you ?

 

 

Oh, and just a P.S I note a new member lives in Machynlleth just down the road from us, who knows that could have been Wendy, but that really was not the point, lets leave it at that shall we.

[vindiboy]

The original poster  only says the van won't start, does that mean it turns over and does not fire  or does  it mean it doesn't  turn over. I only ask this because my Fiat 2*8 sometimes has a Gremlin where  I turn the key, get all the lights up and further turning of the key results in nothing happening, no dimming of ignition lights and no turning of the engine, I have discovered that  it a sticky solenoid on the starter and I have made up a cable to clip on the  small connection on the starter and I touch the other end to a live on the battery , I get a clunk from the starter and all is well again, sometime I will change the starter motor but as it happens so rarely I have not bothered  to date. May I suggest that instead of all the stupid infighting that is starting on this thread you all try and help the original poster instead of trying to out do each other?

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-02 1:02 PM..................................lets leave it at that shall we.

Yes, lets! Seems Robin is right, and the OP lives in Ulster, not far from Portadown - so unlikely to be dropping in on you.

 

In the interests of peace and harmony I'll apologise again, but I really don't understand what has caused your outbursts. Rather as your own posts, I was just trying to keep the string brief, and on topic. Oh well! :-(

[Brian Kirby]

vindiboy - 2012-01-02 4:01 PM

 

The original poster  only says the van won't start, does that mean it turns over and does not fire  or does  it mean it doesn't  turn over. I only ask this because my Fiat 2*8 sometimes has a Gremlin where  I turn the key, get all the lights up and further turning of the key results in nothing happening, no dimming of ignition lights and no turning of the engine, I have discovered that  it a sticky solenoid on the starter and I have made up a cable to clip on the  small connection on the starter and I touch the other end to a live on the battery , I get a clunk from the starter and all is well again, sometime I will change the starter motor but as it happens so rarely I have not bothered  to date. May I suggest that instead of all the stupid infighting that is starting on this thread you all try and help the original poster instead of trying to out do each other?

Malc, she said it would only start on jump leads, not that it wouldn't start. If it were the solenoid, it presumably wouldn't start on jump leads either?

 

Whether the problem is a missing earth strap will depend on whether the jump neutral was connected to the block, so by-passing a possibly missing engine earth strap, and completing the circuit.

 

This we don't know, so until or unless a bit more detail is added (on most of her previous posts the OP hasn't returned), we could all speculate endlessly about possible causes.

 

I just happen to believe that the simplest things are the most likely, and are also the safest place to start for someone who says they have limited knowledge. I think we are/were all trying to help the OP, but otherwise agreed, and further apologies.

[euroserv]

Hello, and Happy New Year.

 

Did you miss me?

 

You seemed to be having some fun anyway!

 

Anyway; to the point....

 

There are some very frustrating electrical issues with the X250 van. We have had many instances where, completely without any warning a van has refused to start. This is normally due to degradation of the earth cable that runs from the gearbox to the chassis. For some insane reason the ECU gets it's power through this route and if there is insufficient current it just will not play ball. While driving you can sometimes see the battery warning light on and this suggests a lack of charge being returned to the battery. It never actually is though; it is the ECU flagging a problem in the only way that it knows how.

 

Jump starting; even following the correct procedure, will also sometimes blow the CAL5 fuse that is attached to the battery terminals, or weaken it and cause similar symptoms.

 

Although the usage of our vehicles is quite different to yours, I think it is worth repeating that we have not yet had to change any of the batteries on these vehicles, some of which are approaching 5 years old and 300,000 miles!

 

The first thing to do is to clean the joint between the earth strap and the chassis. This may help, but if you see any oxidisation on the cable it will almost certainly need replacing. Get an new one made up by an electrician and make it 6" longer. Attach it securely to the chassis point and then remove one of the screws on the gearbox end cover. Put the other crimp terminal in place and screw it down tightly using a shakeproof washer. This is the best you can do and appears to be the 'fix' recommended by Fiat to the dealers. We have had no further problems with vehicles so modified, but more than half of the vehicles we have over 2 years old have had to be repaired.

 

It may well be that the original poster has fled (or just did not feel like thanking or updating you) but this really is what you need to do and it should be comitted to memory!

 

Don't be discouraged by the fact that sometimes a question is more than adequately answered in the first couple of replies. Sometimes a generic answer is not enough though and specific knowledge of the vehicle is necessary. Even if it's from Rupert123 who has a perfect van and will never have any problems. Sorry, could not resist!

 

Nick

[Brian Kirby]

Boy! Am I glad that's settled. :-D Well done, Nick.

[rupert123]

Unlike most Euroserve I do take all you say as gospel because a lot of what you say has little bearing on the practical side of low mileage motorhomes. I would lay odds this has nothing to do with the earth strap and is simply the battery giving up on a low mileage van, not unusual. It does not really matter though as the person who started this thread, as usual, never gives any feedback so we are all wasting our time. It may interest you that my now nearly four year old x250 still has a perfect record, not a single problem to date except new set of brake pads. I have had one problem with the habitation side though, the fridge gives of smell of gas when running on gas, still can wait until it goes for service.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Now I'm in a real quandary, should I have a similar problem in the future, whom best to listen to for knowledgeable advice mmmmm.................. :-S

[bob b]

rupert123 - 2012-01-03 5:35 PM Unlike most Euroserve I do take all you say as gospel because a lot of what you say has little bearing on the practical side of low mileage motorhomes. I would lay odds this has nothing to do with the earth strap and is simply the battery giving up on a low mileage van, not unusual. It does not really matter though as the person who started this thread, as usual, never gives any feedback so we are all wasting our time. It may interest you that my now nearly four year old x250 still has a perfect record, not a single problem to date except new set of brake pads. I have had one problem with the habitation side though, the fridge gives of smell of gas when running on gas, still can wait until it goes for service.

You have an unfortunate gift for rudeness. Quite why you feel the need to insult Nick when he make the effort to assist I really don't know.

[rupert123]

bob b - 2012-01-03 8:30 PM

rupert123 - 2012-01-03 5:35 PM Unlike most Euroserve I do take all you say as gospel because a lot of what you say has little bearing on the practical side of low mileage motorhomes. I would lay odds this has nothing to do with the earth strap and is simply the battery giving up on a low mileage van, not unusual. It does not really matter though as the person who started this thread, as usual, never gives any feedback so we are all wasting our time. It may interest you that my now nearly four year old x250 still has a perfect record, not a single problem to date except new set of brake pads. I have had one problem with the habitation side though, the fridge gives of smell of gas when running on gas, still can wait until it goes for service.

You have an unfortunate gift for rudeness. Quite why you feel the need to insult Nick when he make the effort to assist I really don't know.

You may well be correct, unfortunatly euroserve does as well, although you have ignored this of course. I actually fail to see any insult and believe what I say is correct. He is talking about vans that cover 60,000 miles a year, how many m/h do that. The problems you get with a commercial van that is used and abused by white van man is not quite the same as a M/H many of which only cover a few thousand and are then laid up for long periods. This in itself will cause problems but in any case as I have said doubt we will ever know who is correct in this instance.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

bob b - 2012-01-03 8:30 PM

rupert123 - 2012-01-03 5:35 PM Unlike most Euroserve I do take all you say as gospel because a lot of what you say has little bearing on the practical side of low mileage motorhomes. .

You have an unfortunate gift for rudeness. Quite why you feel the need to insult Nick when he make the effort to assist I really don't know.

Here here, completely unmannerly. :-(

[rupert123]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-03 10:56 PM

bob b - 2012-01-03 8:30 PM

rupert123 - 2012-01-03 5:35 PM Unlike most Euroserve I do take all you say as gospel because a lot of what you say has little bearing on the practical side of low mileage motorhomes. .

You have an unfortunate gift for rudeness. Quite why you feel the need to insult Nick when he make the effort to assist I really don't know.

Here here, completely unmannerly. :-(

Really, well coming from most on here I would accept or ignore this but coming from you, who has one of the worst records of abuse on here, and keeps his identity a close secret it is almost laughable. I refuse to get into an exchange of insults so will close on this.

[euroserv]

Campers,

 

Although I agree with your sentiments regarding Mr 123 I have to hold up my hand and confess to poking fun at him on this occasion, and therefore I deserved his response, which was in any case very restrained by his standards.

 

You may not think that my fleet bears any relevance to your low mileage camper and I keep this in mind when passing on information, but there are some things that seem to be more linked to time than distance and in any case; whatever problems you have; I will probably have seen them before, probably a long time ago. Several times.

 

There are a lot of members of this forum that have broader and much more specific experience than me and I would not argue with their advice or suggestions unless I was pretty damn sure that they could be mistaken. I don't think there is any point in pontificating when there is insufficient information to come to a conclusion but the general advice, safety tips and reminders of previous cases are kindly posted by others to serve that purpose until more information becomes available. If it does.

 

Sometimes I read the banter on here and am so amused/disgusted that I feel I have to say something. Sometimes I post something that might amuse you and is of no use whatsoever. Sometimes I feel compelled to defuse a situation that is causing hysteria and to offer balance to an argument. That is why I am here; its not like I am getting paid for it!

 

I am genuinely pleased for Mr123 that his van is a good one with none of the faults that plague so many of you out there. I am not surprised. I still believe that the Ducato (flawed as it is) is the best light commercial available and is fit for purpose as a camper or a delivery van; I continue to put my money where my mouth is. What Mr123 has NEVER acknowledged is that many people have made great efforts to make sure that if a problem had occured with his van in it's youth; procedures were in place to remedy it and that the manufacturer is just a little more customer focussed than it was a few years ago. I am very glad that he never needed that help, and that his continued refusal to admit that he could potentially benefit kept the thread alive for a good deal longer than it might have been and highly visible to all that visited the forum. This action helped everyone. Thank you Mr 123.

 

Nick

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

rupert123 - 2012-01-04 1:38 PM

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-03 10:56 PM

bob b - 2012-01-03 8:30 PM

rupert123 - 2012-01-03 5:35 PM Unlike most Euroserve I do take all you say as gospel because a lot of what you say has little bearing on the practical side of low mileage motorhomes. .

You have an unfortunate gift for rudeness. Quite why you feel the need to insult Nick when he make the effort to assist I really don't know.

Here here, completely unmannerly. :-(

Really, well coming from most on here I would accept or ignore this but coming from you, who has one of the worst records of abuse on here, and keeps his identity a close secret it is almost laughable. I refuse to get into an exchange of insults so will close on this.

Nothing secretive about me mate, as has been posted I live in Tywyn, my name is Mike,and I have an IH motorhome, and do a lot of wild camping, what else is there to know, pm me if there is. To be fair I did think to effectively rubbish Euroserv's post was really not in the best of taste, not abusive exactly, but unmannerly, and of course you just repeated the same by accusing me of having the worst record of abuse without foundation, but if I have I bet you run me a close second, perhaps it's living in wind and rain swept Snowdonia that does it.for us :D :D

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-04 2:44 PM

rupert123 - 2012-01-04 1:38 PM

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-03 10:56 PM

bob b - 2012-01-03 8:30 PM

rupert123 - 2012-01-03 5:35 PM Unlike most Euroserve I do take all you say as gospel because a lot of what you say has little bearing on the practical side of low mileage motorhomes. .

You have an unfortunate gift for rudeness. Quite why you feel the need to insult Nick when he make the effort to assist I really don't know.

Here here, completely unmannerly. :-(

Really, well coming from most on here I would accept or ignore this but coming from you, who has one of the worst records of abuse on here, and keeps his identity a close secret it is almost laughable. I refuse to get into an exchange of insults so will close on this.

Nothing secretive about me mate, as has been posted I live in Tywyn, my name is Mike,and I have an IH motorhome, and do a lot of wild camping, what else is there to know, pm me if I've missed anything. To be fair I did think to effectively rubbish Euroserv's post was really not in the best of taste, not abusive exactly, but unmannerly, and of course you just repeated the same by accusing me of having the worst record of abuse without foundation, but if I have I bet you run me a close second, I will as a new year resolution try harder, I never knew a league table was kept, would make fascinating reading I'm sure for all. But perhaps it's living in wind and rain swept Snowdonia / Cymru that does it.for us, what would others excuses be :D :D

[dawki]

euroserv - 2012-01-04 2:04 PM

 

Campers,

 

Although I agree with your sentiments regarding Mr 123 I have to hold up my hand and confess to poking fun at him on this occasion, and therefore I deserved his response, which was in any case very restrained by his standards.

 

You may not think that my fleet bears any relevance to your low mileage camper and I keep this in mind when passing on information, but there are some things that seem to be more linked to time than distance and in any case; whatever problems you have; I will probably have seen them before, probably a long time ago. Several times.

 

There are a lot of members of this forum that have broader and much more specific experience than me and I would not argue with their advice or suggestions unless I was pretty damn sure that they could be mistaken. I don't think there is any point in pontificating when there is insufficient information to come to a conclusion but the general advice, safety tips and reminders of previous cases are kindly posted by others to serve that purpose until more information becomes available. If it does.

 

Sometimes I read the banter on here and am so amused/disgusted that I feel I have to say something. Sometimes I post something that might amuse you and is of no use whatsoever. Sometimes I feel compelled to defuse a situation that is causing hysteria and to offer balance to an argument. That is why I am here; its not like I am getting paid for it!

 

I am genuinely pleased for Mr123 that his van is a good one with none of the faults that plague so many of you out there. I am not surprised. I still believe that the Ducato (flawed as it is) is the best light commercial available and is fit for purpose as a camper or a delivery van; I continue to put my money where my mouth is. What Mr123 has NEVER acknowledged is that many people have made great efforts to make sure that if a problem had occured with his van in it's youth; procedures were in place to remedy it and that the manufacturer is just a little more customer focussed than it was a few years ago. I am very glad that he never needed that help, and that his continued refusal to admit that he could potentially benefit kept the thread alive for a good deal longer than it might have been and highly visible to all that visited the forum. This action helped everyone. Thank you Mr 123.

 

Nick

 

Nick

I have read many of your post and you are undoubtedly a great asset to this forum for Fiat and other van owners.

 

but do you except from what i have seen that the vast majority of fleet owners do not agree with you, and don't run Fiat vans

 

[rupert123]

euroserv - 2012-01-04 2:04 PM

 

Campers,

 

Although I agree with your sentiments regarding Mr 123 I have to hold up my hand and confess to poking fun at him on this occasion, and therefore I deserved his response, which was in any case very restrained by his standards.

 

You may not think that my fleet bears any relevance to your low mileage camper and I keep this in mind when passing on information, but there are some things that seem to be more linked to time than distance and in any case; whatever problems you have; I will probably have seen them before, probably a long time ago. Several times.

 

There are a lot of members of this forum that have broader and much more specific experience than me and I would not argue with their advice or suggestions unless I was pretty damn sure that they could be mistaken. I don't think there is any point in pontificating when there is insufficient information to come to a conclusion but the general advice, safety tips and reminders of previous cases are kindly posted by others to serve that purpose until more information becomes available. If it does.

 

Sometimes I read the banter on here and am so amused/disgusted that I feel I have to say something. Sometimes I post something that might amuse you and is of no use whatsoever. Sometimes I feel compelled to defuse a situation that is causing hysteria and to offer balance to an argument. That is why I am here; its not like I am getting paid for it!

 

I am genuinely pleased for Mr123 that his van is a good one with none of the faults that plague so many of you out there. I am not surprised. I still believe that the Ducato (flawed as it is) is the best light commercial available and is fit for purpose as a camper or a delivery van; I continue to put my money where my mouth is. What Mr123 has NEVER acknowledged is that many people have made great efforts to make sure that if a problem had occured with his van in it's youth; procedures were in place to remedy it and that the manufacturer is just a little more customer focussed than it was a few years ago. I am very glad that he never needed that help, and that his continued refusal to admit that he could potentially benefit kept the thread alive for a good deal longer than it might have been and highly visible to all that visited the forum. This action helped everyone. Thank you Mr 123.

 

Nick

 

Mr Euroserve, well said and I do agree with most of what you say. However I have in fact acknowledged on many occasions, go back and look, that the work of people like Andy, with whom I still exchange insults, has done a lot of good. Why can you and others just accept that most Fiat vans out their are good ones that run with no problems, this was why I kept up my stance on this.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Repling to Dawki post above this one

 

I know we're now completely off topic, but I too have noticed courier companies almost to a man use Merc sprinters, it would be interesting to know why this should be. We have every courier company under the sun delivering here, but I have NEVER seen any Fiats. Do these fleet operators know something we don't..... (?)

[dawki]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-04 5:45 PM

 

Repling to Dawki post above this one

 

I know we're now completely off topic, but I too have noticed courier companies almost to a man use Merc sprinters, it would be interesting to know why this should be. We have every courier company under the sun delivering here, but I have NEVER seen any Fiats. Do these fleet operators know something we don't..... (?)

 

Think its best that I a start a new thread and not ambush this one (sorry)

New thread started

[euroserv]

Gentlemen,

 

Yes; rather off topic but i somehow doubt the original poster will care.....

 

I think the absense of Fiat vans from courier fleets is down to a number of reasons;

 

1. Fiat dealers have had a very poor reputation in the past and despite huge improvements in some parts of the country there is not the consistency that would be required to build confidence for a national network.

Having said that; my experience of Mercedes dealers has been very poor.

 

2. The vans that you see operating in the colours of the large delivery firms are not owned by those firms. Mercedes only give significant purchase discounts to the biggest fleets. Northgate vehicle rental has a fleet of 40,000 commercials and half of those are Merc Sprinters. Whether this number has arisen because of customer demand or the sheer size of the financial package that is thrown at Northgate is not clear but I suspect it is the latter. I think a combination of a desire to look impressive and get the cheapest deals possible on vehicles has led to this situation.

 

3. The perception is that the Mercedes badge stands for quality, and from that; reliability. My experience is that the Merc is no more reliable than a Fiat, but both are more reliable and cost less to maintain than a Ford Transit (which let's face it is the casualty in the switch to Mercs!) I think it is about keeping up with 'The Jones's' and peer group pressure. This is an I-Phone type situation where hordes of people with too much money accept a fragile, compromised and autocratic device because they are afraid not to.

 

4. Although we choose not to so much these days we have done a great deal of business with Courier firms in the past and without exception they have been pleasantly surprised with our Fiat vans. The fuel consumption is better, the payload and load volume for the overall size is much better and the drivers with few exceptions said that they were more comfortable and had better visibilty. Most said that they did not think so highly of the larger Iveco Daily that we also run although driver comfort was good it fared less well in other areas but don't forget that this van is the number one seller across europe! Badge snobbery is far less important on the continent!

 

5. Don't forget that when courier firms need extra vehicles or replacements for broken down or crashed ones they will be operating non-liveried rental vans and these will be Transits, Fiats, Citroens or whatever else they can get hold of. If it is not in their livery they don't care what it is.

 

I suspect that any of the above reasons could explain the relative scarcity of Fiat Ducato vans in the UK but I for one will not complain..... the resale values are very high because those that want to buy one have less choice and enjoy the relative value of the Fiat while remaining a little smug that they made a wise choice. That's a win, win, win for me, my customers and the people that buy my used vans. I would be much more worried if there were more on the road!

 

Remember; it's not the most popular camper van in Europe without good reason. Let's keep that between us though....

 

 

Nick