Guest Tracker Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-01-18 5:33 PM Rich I will not go over your original post piece by piece but stand by what I said. It will in any case be impossible to buy a new or recent model diesel without this system, it is not a new system and has been around for a few years now. As i said no doubt some will have a problem, some always do, but most will not. Getting trouble is the case with all cars be they petrol or diesel, no point in worrying about DPF on diesels it is here to stay until someone comes up with a new way of meeting to EU rules. As this is a M/H forum and the system is more recent on vans they will no doubt be discussed for ever more. Bit like the x250 reverse gear despite this getting no mentions on here, or anywhere else I have seen for a long time now. The mileage you do has no real bearing on this it depends more on the type of runs but even doing short stop start stuff the occasional short burst will clear it out. Henry I have no problem whatsoever with you disagreeing as open discussion is what forums are all about. I too respect your views but I, and many others it seems, don't agree with them and as such I won't be buying any Euro 5 diesel engined vehicles any time soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Fully agree Tracker, and quite frankly I think it is astonishing that anyone should come on here and rubbish the claims that these things are failing with just normal driving, or even failing at all, or advise going for a thrash up the M/way every so often. I bet for certain if it happens to them, and they end up with a large bill they will go very quiet on the issue. Better for the rest of us to be forewarned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Robinhood - 2012-01-18 4:23 PM ...I thought the "new" Transit had avoided the use of any of the fuids, and I can't find any reference to them (though I may be wrong). I note, however, that the 2.4 engine used to date in the RWD versions appears to have been replaced by the 2.2. You are probably right about Euro V-compliant Transit motors not needing DPF additives. It seems that, in late 2007, Ford began to offer a 'coated diesel particulate filter' (CDPF) as an £850 option for certain Transit models, and a CDPF has now been standardised for all Euro V Transits. I wondered how I "remembered" that the new Transits would need a DPF additive and eventually realised the idea came from here: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23361&posts=9 Ho hum... As you rightly say, all Euro V Transits will (apparently) have a 2.2litre motor. There has been speculation that a Euro V version of the 5-cylinder 3.0litre motor that was available for Euro IV Transits might eventually be used, but I've also read that an even more powerful (180PS?) version of the 2.2litre powerplant will be introduced at some point to replace the old 3.0litre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-01-18 5:57 PM nowtelse2do - 2012-01-18 12:42 PM I have now switched my search to petrol powered cars. If I can find a 20000 mile 2ltr - 2.5ltr full dealer stamped service book, J reg (1992) with no cat, I will be very interested :-D Dave I don't think my 99 Rover sterling 2.5 ltr has a cat ;-) Well give it a bone then :-D When the new MOT rules come out later this year, any vehicles manufactured with catalyst converters, must have them on for the test, otherwise its a failure. If reg no later than J reg (1992) they don't have them so ok. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-01-18 5:57 PM nowtelse2do - 2012-01-18 12:42 PM I have now switched my search to petrol powered cars. If I can find a 20000 mile 2ltr - 2.5ltr full dealer stamped service book, J reg (1992) with no cat, I will be very interested :-D Dave I don't think my 99 Rover sterling 2.5 ltr has a cat ;-) Sorry to disillusion you Dave but your car will have a Cat! :'( The 2.5 litre engine in your Sterling will be the Rover KV6 petrol engine and as all petrol engined cars built after 1992 had to have a cat by law yours will (unless it's previously been removed that is). We had a 2.0 litre petrol Montego estate bought new in 1992 and it was amongst the first after the new regulation was passed. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Keithl - 2012-01-18 7:06 PM pelmetman - 2012-01-18 5:57 PM nowtelse2do - 2012-01-18 12:42 PM I have now switched my search to petrol powered cars. If I can find a 20000 mile 2ltr - 2.5ltr full dealer stamped service book, J reg (1992) with no cat, I will be very interested :-D Dave I don't think my 99 Rover sterling 2.5 ltr has a cat ;-) Sorry to disillusion you Dave but your car will have a Cat! :'( The 2.5 litre engine in your Sterling will be the Rover KV6 petrol engine and as all petrol engined cars built after 1992 had to have a cat by law yours will (unless it's previously been removed that is). We had a 2.0 litre petrol Montego estate bought new in 1992 and it was amongst the first after the new regulation was passed. Keith. Well it must be valuable than I thought then...............due to the scrap value of the cat ;-) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 As is usual, a bit off topic now, but my 2003 2.8Jtd Ducato has never been fitted with a cat from day one, just a straight front pipe ( and no it has not been taken off ) the full exhaust system in garage catalogues show two systems, one with,and like mine, one without, go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-18 7:15 PM As is usual, a bit off topic now, but my 2003 2.8Jtd Ducato has never been fitted with a cat from day one, just a straight front pipe ( and no it has not been taken off ) the full exhaust system in garage catalogues show two systems, one with,and like mine, one without, go figure. Mike, Our Sprinter base is late 2003 (reg'd 2004) and like yours has no cat. At that age they only had to meet Euro 3 regulations and most manufacturers accomplished this with the likes of EGR and hence no cat. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Thanks for that, and I presume no DPF either, so perhaps best to stick with what we've got...... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbotham Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I've got a DPF on my Fiat 500, one of the vehicles described on the tv as being a problem. It you read the ... manual, there really isn't an issue. If using the vehicle in mixed mode of travel so it gets sustained revs every now and again, it clears the DPF without you ever knowing it's happening. It's only if you drive solely around town that the regneration light comes on, and then only if you're daft enough not to follow the advice in the manual to drive until it goes out (5-10 miles in my experience) that you'll have DPF issues. The failures on Fiats have been where people have seen the warning light and still parked up without waiting for regeneration to complete, meaning next time they drive the same thing happens again, and again, and again, until the DPF fails. I would wholly agree that for car drivers, if you're buying a car solely to use around town then a diesel with a DPF isn't suitable. Because you'll always be needing to extend your journey to allow regeneration to complete - not every week, though, that's a ridiculous exaggeration. However to be blunt if your driving pattern is solely short urban journeys then you're not going to be doing the car any favours for a whole load of other reasons, regardless of what fuel it takes. But this is a motorhome website. Frankly, if you're not going to be driving a motorhome far enough for a DPF to regenerate, I'd seriously question why on earth you've got a motorhome...to park it 3 miles up the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 To suggest that this technology means that you've returned home after a day at work, and the light comes on, means you need to drive a further 5 or 10 miles is absurd beyond belief. And yes, we have been known to go very short distances in our van on occasions as well, pottering around from one French village to another, they can stick their DPF's where the sun don't shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Wonder what will happen when Euro 6 comes in....!!!! :'( Thought plant life thrived on high co emissions. Are we harming the planet with all these clean engines? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbotham Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-18 8:23 PM To suggest that this technology means that you've returned home after a day at work, and the light comes on, means you need to drive a further 5 or 10 miles is absurd beyond belief. But nobody does though. The light will only come on if you're only ever doing short runs. So let's say in the worst case that does happen and you're nearly at home, don't have time to do it. The car isn't going to explode because you turn it off. Regeneration will start next time you use the car. So long as at some point you do what the manual recommends and let it complete, no problem. But if - as those on the tv who'd had the issue did - you were to continually ignore the warning light and never give the vehicle computer the chance to do its job, well frankly you'd deserve what you got. 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-18 8:23 PM And yes, we have been known to go very short distances in our van on occasions as well, pottering around from one French village to another, they can stick their DPF's where the sun don't shine But presumably that's not the only driving you do. And presumably you drive more than 4 or 5 miles at a time to get to France in the first place. So the DPF will have plenty of time to regenerate. On the whole, notwithstanding isolated failures like the Kuga mentioned earlier, so long as some of your journeys are extra-urban you'd have no issue, and it's absolute nonsense to suggest a car will be going to regeneration mode on a weekly basis. I believe starter motors fail every now and again. Should we all go back to using a cranking handle? If we want a demon to be scared of with modern diesel engines, forget DPFs, it's dual mass flywheels you want to be worried about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'm scared of DMF's as well, especially as my Daughter recently had to shell out £1100 on her failed one on her car, so don't need yet another improvement to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 This is the AA link, might prove useful to decide. http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice...e-filters.html Bit of a problem. When you get onto the AA site. Click onto Driving, when that comes up go to the right column and click Fuel & Envirinment. When that page comes up click onto Diesel Particulate Filter in the left column. Another interesting bit of info I found was that depending on car and model, if its a 6speed box, the revs may not be high enough to get the temperature hot enough to regenerate the system even on a motorway. The main advice I can find which seems common with the forums I'm on, is that if you are only doing short journeys at slow speed then don't buy a diesel. One Guy as said that a small engined diesel car is not fit for driving in towns and cities. What I find disturbing is the lac of info when buying a new car. Is everyone supposed to be a auto technician. Its only when peoples new cars start to breakdown when these things come to light, so basically we are test driving the earlier model. I'm not a mechanic or an auto electrician and neither are a few other million people. Not getting at woman here but are they suppose to know all the in's and outs of a car, I know a couple do but not many. I think what is happening in today's world is that the customer is being regarded as the unpaid car tester and researcher Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 What a crazy statement 'if you drive mainly around town, small engined diesel cars are not a good choice' the high MPG and low VED are the VERY reasons that people buy them and are prepared to pay the premium that having a diesel engine (and Fuel cost) demands. Trying to dictate 'How a car is used' is doomed to failure, and is liable to bring charges of it 'Not being fit for purpose'. I think the designers of these vehicles need to 'think again' about making them 'non-technical driver proof' and more reliable when driven by such people. OR their sales will suffer as their vehicles drop in the reliability ratings. It's up to THEM, not us to solve the DPF problem. Ray *-) If it causes cars, even quite new ones, to break down, it IS their problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 nowtelse2do - 2012-01-18 10:08 PM Another interesting bit of info I found was that depending on car and model, if its a 6speed box, the revs may not be high enough to get the temperature hot enough to regenerate the system even on a motorway That's a very valid point. My current diesel car is both 6 speed and nicely high-geared - a very relaxing, economical drive with over 30mph/1000 revs in 6th. i.e. doing what diesels do best. In 67,000 trouble-free miles I've never knowingly exceeded 3000 revs. (90+mph).. The only time it will have been revved harder would be at it's MOT tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Rayjsj - 2012-01-18 11:42 PM Trying to dictate 'How a car is used' is doomed to failure, and is liable to bring charges of it 'Not being fit for purpose'. I think the designers of these vehicles need to 'think again' about making them 'non-technical driver proof' and more reliable when driven by such people. OR their sales will suffer as their vehicles drop in the reliability ratings. . Ray, the guy that made the statement not to buy a small diesel engined car for town and city driving said he was going to go down the route of 'Not Fit For Purpose Use' he never came back on the forum, so don't know what happened. The other bit of snippet to come through was that dealers were saying that people should change their driving style. I think we have heard that one before somewhere, haven't we? :-S Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-18 7:15 PM As is usual, a bit off topic now, but my 2003 2.8Jtd Ducato has never been fitted with a cat from day one, just a straight front pipe ( and no it has not been taken off ) the full exhaust system in garage catalogues show two systems, one with,and like mine, one without, go figure. For the sake of complete accuracy the 2.8JTD was available in some markets with a Cat but they were not offered in the UK because they managed to acheive Euro3 very comfortably with neither a Cat or EGR. This was widely recognised as one of the cleanest engines ever made. Earlier variants of the same engine at 2.5L with turbo's were sold with Cats (circa 1995/7) but again no EGR at all. For simplicity, power and refinement the best engine of all was the 2.8idTD. Went like the clappers, used less fuel than the 2.5 OR the 2.8JTD OR the 2.3 Euro 4 (or Euro5). It did not matter how much the injectors cost because they never went wrong, it had no glow plugs to fail and any idiot could service it. Strangely; the emissions of the 2.8idTD were within the spec for Euro3 and near as makes no difference for Euro4 too. So much for progress. If the Euro-meddlers had left the manufacturers to it they would have slowly but surely been pressured into reducing fuel consumption over the years and that would have led to lower emissions anyway. I admire Fiat because they are the only CV manufacturer apart from VW who have not had to resort to fuel additives in order to meet Euro5. VW's answer (after additives in their 2.5 engines of last year) is a non-additive 2.0 engine that powers the Crafter van (LT) all the way to 5.0TGVW. Idiots. For Euro6 and beyond the others will be continually strangling thier engines with more and more EGR (think: Hot!) and more and more additives (think: Expensive!) while Fiat have a development of their Multi-Air induction technology that will make their engines breathe easier and use less fuel as well. If they don't make any more stupid mistakes with gearboxes they could be the ultimate winners of the green race. I know that another manufacturer is going to be fitting Fiat engines in it's vans next year but I can't say who! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-18 6:52 PM Fully agree Tracker, and quite frankly I think it is astonishing that anyone should come on here and rubbish the claims that these things are failing with just normal driving, or even failing at all, or advise going for a thrash up the M/way every so often. I bet for certain if it happens to them, and they end up with a large bill they will go very quiet on the issue. Better for the rest of us to be forewarned. My handbook clearly states 60kph, around 36mph for fifteen minutes, hardly a thrash up the motorway. If you mean me I am not rubbishing anyone just pointing out that it is unlikely a whole load will fail and if you want a new M/H you will have no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Google search "DPF failure", it makes very depressing reading, this is not a few isolated incidents, or drivers not reading the handbook. Already there is a growing industry to remove these filters and reprogram the ECU, why, because people don't want to fork out £1400 in some cases for a "service part", I mean think about that for a minute, £1400 for a filter . 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-20 8:03 AM Google search "DPF failure", it makes very depressing reading, this is not a few isolated incidents, or drivers not reading the handbook. Already there is a growing industry to remove these filters and reprogram the ECU, why, because people don't want to fork out £1400 in some cases for a "service part", I mean think about that for a minute, £1400 for a filter . 8-) Mike we have to agree to dis-agree on this. I would say if you google any fault on any car over the years it will read like doomsday. If you take any notice you will never buy any new vehicle or indeed nearly new one. These things need treating with some caution I agree but DPF have been around some time and show no sign of going away. It is OK for people like you and Rich to say you would never buy a new car but others do, otherwise how could you buy your secondhand ones. Although now semi retired I have been around the motor trade to long and still know a lot of people fully involved in it. I have no personal knowledge of a single failure of a DPF so choose to ignore third hand reports on google or anywhere else. It would be interesting to hear if Euroserve has any personal knowledge of one and if so how it was treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-20 8:03 AM I mean think about that for a minute, £1400 for a filter . 8-) You could buy a camper for that :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Rupert123 Take on board what you say, the difference now however is most of this green agenda that is being forced on us, means we end up footing the bill when or if it does go wrong. Sadly I've never been able to splash out 50k on a new van, and would assume those that can will not be fussed about a large bill for DPF failure if it happens. All this green bulls**t at the same time a discussion is taking place about building a new airport for London, and China continues to build coal fired power stations, oh well.......................................... :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-20 10:52 AM Rupert123 Take on board what you say, the difference now however is most of this green agenda that is being forced on us, means we end up footing the bill when or if it does go wrong. Sadly I've never been able to splash out 50k on a new van, and would assume those that can will not be fussed about a large bill for DPF failure if it happens. All this green bulls**t at the same time a discussion is taking place about building a new airport for London, and China continues to build coal fired power stations, oh well.......................................... :-( I agree totally with you here but perhaps politicians will wake up, doubt it in the near future though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.