Guest JudgeMental Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 La Strada Avanti C. Now this is a nice van on Fiat 636 chassis... tall at 2..890. but this allows for good storage etc...probably compromises handling a bit with weight at high level. Loads of storage as stretched chassis hs mainly been used for this, personally would rather have space used in the front living area, as overhead lockers look more then adequate. it has a separate shower as well...again, I would prefer more living space.... And especially for Brian a 3 hob cooker (a bit of a thing with him :D) Quality van mind, and pricy..£60,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ouch!!! this was a lovely video and van until I read your last line. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 We very nearly purchased a La Strada on a Merc chassis, but gf found the 'upstairs' bed claustrophobic, but I have recommended them to others as I think they are excellent, have not driven the new Master/Morvano so cannot comment on them , but I have recommended the older model to people as I prefer the driving position to Fiat, BUT, I would not recommend the twin style layout on any base other than Sevel, and even some of those are not good, IMO Adria's Twin with it's curved washroom, and Globecars shower in the corridor are the standard bearers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 What a pity there seems so little support on here for home produced conversions, you can get an IH on both a Merc, and Fiat base vehicle. You may think I have a vested interest because I have a 2003 IH, you may well be correct after owning a European PVC conversion that was to put it mildly crap. So come on guys a little bit of support for a British company with a quality product that is way beyond some "foreign" conversions would not go amiss. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Sorry Mike, I would never buy a British made product in this market place, bad experiences with Brit made caravans has put me off for life, also would never buy from a British dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-30 7:43 PM What a pity there seems so little support on here for home produced conversions, you can get an IH on both a Merc, and Fiat base vehicle. You may think I have a vested interest because I have a 2003 IH, you may well be correct after owning a European PVC conversion that was to put it mildly crap. So come on guys a little bit of support for a British company with a quality product that is way beyond some "foreign" conversions would not go amiss. ;-) Well I certainly support them Mike. I reckon my wife and have have looked at pretty much every PVC on the market in last couple of months and our top three are all UK conversions. I reckon people are against UK stuff, with reason, because they have had bad experiences in the past but this is well behind them now. It is a bit like Merc cars, used to be the best but sadly no longer are, likewise their M/H are living on past reputations. Perhaps one day they will catch the UK ones again, I have an open mind so when this happens will look at them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-01-30 10:12 PM 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-30 7:43 PM What a pity there seems so little support on here for home produced conversions, you can get an IH on both a Merc, and Fiat base vehicle. You may think I have a vested interest because I have a 2003 IH, you may well be correct after owning a European PVC conversion that was to put it mildly crap. So come on guys a little bit of support for a British company with a quality product that is way beyond some "foreign" conversions would not go amiss. ;-) Well I certainly support them Mike. I reckon my wife and have have looked at pretty much every PVC on the market in last couple of months and our top three are all UK conversions. I reckon people are against UK stuff, with reason, because they have had bad experiences in the past but this is well behind them now. It is a bit like Merc cars, used to be the best but sadly no longer are, likewise their M/H are living on past reputations. Perhaps one day they will catch the UK ones again, I have an open mind so when this happens will look at them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 when we bought our previous motorhome 7 years ago most of the continentals stood out as being much better quality than most UK builds so we finished up with a Rapido which proved to be almost bullet proof and looked as good when we sold it as when new. Last year our requirements changed and we needed a motorhome with a garage. This time, to our surprise, many of the UK built motorhome seemed better than their continental opposition many of which seem to have moved in the wrong direction. We finished up with an AutoTrail which happened to be the only one I could drive, and get up our drive, that fitted our requirements. Where in previous years we had not been impressed with their build quality we were impressed with how much it has improved and with the exception of the expensive entertainment system have been well pleased with it. I put the change in the balance of quality between UK and Continental products down to a determined effort buy many UK manufacturers to improve quality and corner cutting by Continental manufacturers to keep their products competitive on price with the falling value of the pound. Looking at Rapido with which we are familiar their current offerings do not exude the quality that they did a few years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Colin Leake - 2012-01-31 9:47 AM.........................I put the change in the balance of quality between UK and Continental products down to a determined effort buy many UK manufacturers to improve quality and corner cutting by Continental manufacturers to keep their products competitive on price with the falling value of the pound. Looking at Rapido with which we are familiar their current offerings do not exude the quality that they did a few years ago I agree with this analysis, but think the suggested reason for the fall off in quality of the continental manufacturers suffers a bit from "fog in Channel" syndrome. :-D To mainland manufacturers, the UK is a useful (largely because of higher than mainland prices), nuisance (because they generally have to do the RHD vans on separate production runs), that pays them, but not that much, because the RHD volumes are not that great. Their real competition is from each other across the mainland, where there are many more manufacturers than we see in UK, offering many, many, more models than we see in UK, and that market has been shrinking as the economies of the EU states shrinks. They aren't, IMO, so much cutting corners because Sterling has lost value against the Euro (although this will add to their difficulties), but because all their customers are becoming short of cash. Within a dwindling market, market share is all, and with cash-strapped customers price, above quality, drives volume. Whether the UK manufactures are really achieving improved quality we shall only get to know in 4-5 years time, when we begin to find out if their major past shortcoming - leakage - has been eliminated. AFAIK, no UK manufacturer yet offers a 5 year water ingress warranty, whereas these are commonplace on the mainland, with some even offering 6 years. Yes, you have to have various, usually annual, damp checks carried out, but you do get that bit of additional confidence. By comparison, again AFAIK, Swift (who I believe are the largest UK group) only offer two years. This is a farce, because if properly designed and applied, bodyshell joints formed using today's sealants should have maintenance free lives in the region of 25 years. What is good, is that the apparent quality is better, but what interests me is the non-apparent quality: that which is unseen beneath the skin. Presumably, we shall just have to wait and see. Losing a reputation is quick, regaining it far more protracted. It is a shame this simple fact seems to have escaped the attention of past managements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Brian your not up to speed on this. Elddis now offer a 10 year water ingress warranty. I will not comment further after viewing some of their CB Motorhome range just last Friday. (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-01-31 12:27 PM AFAIK, no UK manufacturer yet offers a 5 year water ingress warranty, whereas these are commonplace on the mainland, with some even offering 6 years. Yes, you have to have various, usually annual, damp checks carried out, but you do get that bit of additional confidence. By comparison, again AFAIK, Swift (who I believe are the largest UK group) only offer two years. Brian, I fear you are somewhat out of date with this statement, both in the specific (Swift) case, and a more general context (as other manufacturers, e.g. Auto-Trail, Bailey, etc. challenge the previous market norms). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 And Bailey and Auto-Trail both now offer 10 year 'Body Construction Integrity Warranties'. But with some T&C's. ie. AT only cover a %age of costs after 5 years. See their websites for more details. Keith. Edit. Post crossed with RH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-31 12:39 PM Brian your not up to speed on this. Elddis now offer a 10 year water ingress warranty. I will not comment further after viewing some of their CB Motorhome range just last Friday. (!) A few thread ago you were saying how poor European vans are compared to UK ones.......But from the above I get the impression that maybe "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." I have always though Elddis looked awful, really boxy and old fashioned.... Colin, surely AutoTrail are the exception rather then the rule...... with panel vans and the fact that a lot in the UK take up motor homing near retirement, the layouts from our small bespoke manufacturers tend to favour this demographic with just two belted seats etc...... European manufacturers have economies of scale that we over here can only dream about. plus the younger demographic means campers more popular and prices lower... I still dont get why we are still expected to pay such an extortionate premium for having a RHD vehicele...the car industry used to be like this years ago. My Euramobil had a 6 year warrenty...when the damp was discovered (while part exchanging it) the dealer double checked with Euramobil that it was covered and deal went though as had been agreed.... The warranty allowed him to get it repaired and sell on with 2 years remaining.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Thank you Mike, Robin and Keith, that is a huge improvement. The last I saw, I am sure Swift were only offering 2 years! :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't really know why I'm contributing to this thread; the last thing I want is an argument or to align myself with any of the bad tempered exchanges, but here goes. In my opinion; a lot of the problem with panel vans is that they are shrunken copies of the standard range of coachbuilt layouts, which are themselves derivatives of caravan layouts. Trying to replicate a front lounge/mid dinette/french bed/transverse bed/mid shower/rear washroom/rear galley in a panelvan conversion is very tricky; trying to accomodate more than two beds, or bed spaces is a challenge. In my opinion panelvan conversions are ideally suited to two people; and also ideally suited to bespoke designs. I also like the fact that I can get into and out of most situations that the sat nav gets me and my panelvan into. I also feel reassured by the solidity of the panelvan. Personally; if I wanted the extra space of a coachbuilt I'd bite the bullet and learn to reverse a caravan. Then I'd save a lot of money by buying a used caravan and a towcar combi. Even then I think I'd want to tweak the layout. As it is I'm glad I designed my own panelvan conversion. Fixed longitudinal double bed, masses of storage, shower and galley kitchen. All fitted into a 08 registered 6M L3 H2 Ducato. As for the cost of panelvan conversions; I think it comes down to the use of caravan construction and technology on coachbuilts, and the comparative lack of such cost saving techniques on pvcs. At the end of the day it's a case of horses for courses. Happy Camping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-01-31 5:07 PM Thank you Mike, Robin and Keith, that is a huge improvement. The last I saw, I am sure Swift were only offering 2 years! :$ My 2008 has a three year but from this year they have a ten year warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 On the subject of the actual base vehicles used...as most of the manufacturers have updated/revamped their models in recent years,has anyone any idea why none have really followed Fiat on van width and "squareness" of sides..? :-S ..Is the Fiat's width and wall shape,down to the cab supposedly being designed for MH use?(..or just a fluke? ;-) ) Prior to buying our recent van,we looked at an Iveco based Devon..and I was suprised just how severely the sides narrowed... :-S Judge'...Just looking at the video on the Adria links..very nice ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Don't see anything to quarrel with there Alan. What it really boils down to is that within a given space, there is a limited number of layout variations that will work commercially. On the basis that there is no point in being a nerd unless one does it properly, I've been doing a bit of counting. :-) This is because I think folk may not realise how different the European market is, compared to the UK. So, just for instance, I've compared the number of PVC converters offering complete vans for sale, and the number of models on offer, in France and the UK, both of which countries have approximately equal sizes of population. In the UK there are 24 makes on offer, of whom 8 are importers, offering between them 114 different models. In France there are 34 makes on offer, of whom 14 are importers, offering between them 313 different models. The number of different models on offer in each country does not imply that there are actually 114, or 313, different layouts, just that those are the numbers of model names and designations listed for each country. These figures exclude Mercedes and VW, and also those who convert only customer's existing vans. Both sets of information were obtained by counting manufacturers listed in magazines, so there will be others who are missed. All of the 8 converters who import into the UK are also present in France, of which only 2 are French converters. All this ignores that the great majority of such vans are actually produced by the Hymer Group, the Trigano group, and the SEA group, from Germany, France and Italy respectively - although their products are not necessarily made in the countries in which the group parent is located. Most of the variants are "badge engineered" with minor cosmetic variations. What I think the difference illustrates is the industrial scale of production by those main three groups, with their prices, but also the sophistication of their product, generally reflecting their access to such items as pre-formed and insulated wall lining panels, and pre-fabricated furniture and washroom modules, even drop-down beds, that reduce production times and so cost. Over recent years the look of PVCs from these sources has moved far from the "competent DIY look" of earlier products, with their dreary needle-punch nylon carpet wall linings stuck to ply, and their cut from the sheet with plastic edging, or framed and panelled, furniture. One now finds curved elements fronting cupboards, enclosing washrooms, and underpinning kitchen blocks, that soften the look while allowing a few more inches to be "liberated", without creating too many hazards to heads, elbows and knees. Even the smaller converters are now able to access these "softer" elements albeit, it seems, at less favourable prices. The problem, with the sheer numbers on offer, is picking out which offer what advantages. The differences lie in the details: in how many burners the hob has, in what size is the fridge, in how compromised is the washroom, in how wide the dining table, in how comfortable is the bed, and in how many, and what size, gas cylinders can be carried. Because the size of the bodyshells on offer can't be changed to order, one finds ones self chasing a mirage, with the ideal endlessly in sight, but with each van examined falling short in just one area, and the area changing from van to van. I am greatly drawn to the solidity, relative security, and freedom from ticky-tacky joints, of a panel van, but am less enamoured of the large sliding side door. However, I could live with that sliding door if I could just find what I consider a workable layout. I can't, so until someone comes up with a van of about 2.1 metres wide by about 6.5 metres long, I'll just stick to a small coachbuilt. That old adage seems to be true: you can only please some of the people, some of the time! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-31 12:39 PM Brian your not up to speed on this. Elddis now offer a 10 year water ingress warranty. I will not comment further after viewing some of their CB Motorhome range just last Friday. (!) So do AutoTrail and Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Well at least a self confessed nerd Brian, and there was me thinking I had too much time on my hands :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You dont need to live with the sliding door if its a deciding factor.... At least two German company's replace it with a GRP panel with a normal caravan door. Again, cant find my Dusseldorf photos *-) Personally we like the sliding door...We have a zipped mosquito net that fits the large opening from Reimo.de Dumo have a new Euro 5 (I like the new dash) Adria compact SL with your name on it! It's 45,000€ before negotiations ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 RS make quite a nice PV conversion. If we ever do decide to go down the PVC route that's the one I'd fancy but I'd probably have a chat with the about making one to their quality standards but to our layout design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peejay Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-01-31 6:59 PM You dont need to live with the sliding door if its a deciding factor.... At least two German company's replace it with a GRP panel with a normal caravan door. You mean like these.... http://wohnmobile-mk.de/Reisemobilbau/index.php/wohnmobil-tur-system/ Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Looks very neat, but I can't find any drawn layout plans. Are there any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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