rolandrat Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The 5kw quoted is 3kw gas and 2kw electricity, thats ok if you are on mains hook up otherwise only 3kw is available and because the Chieftain has a large living area it suffers in extreme cold weather. the heating system in the Niesmann+Bischoff is probably the best around for Winter use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Keithl - 2012-02-07 5:22 PM michele - 2012-02-07 3:43 PM OMG so sorry . I sisn't see what you or Derek said . And I still can't find it on your link . Oh my dear I am stupid. help ! Hi Michele, Please accept my apologies for being rather blunt with my last post but I was rushing to post before leaving work, I'm home now so will help you find the details you require. First to look at a floorplan of a Double Dinette... Follow this Link and then click on 'Technical Layouts' haflf-way down the page. The fourth layout shows the DD with only Front facing seatbelts. Now to add the Rear facing additional belts... Click on 'Technical Features' to the left of the last button, then scroll down to the heading 'Safety Features' (it's a long way down!). The seventh option is '3 Point Rear Facing Belts, with high back rest and head rests. (Fitted to a Double Dinette - Option C)'. (I think there is an error here as this should be on Option B not C so may be worth asking AT to confirm). Finally if you click on 'Weight Calculator' and select 'Chieftain' in the Yellow model selector box on the right you can play with options and weights. Scroll down to 'Seatbelt options' then tick 'Double Full Dinette' now you will be able to tick '2 Seat Belts Fitted To Rear Facing Double Dinette'. And that's all there is to it! May I suggest that you talk to AT and explain your very special circumstances and then they may be able to arrange a factory visit for you and all your family to see the production line and 'test drive' a Chieftain, both inside and on the road. I hope this helps, . Keith. ;-)Gotta print this and show it to Hubby whenhe is finished work later . Thanks again for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJP Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Keithl - 2012-02-07 3:36 PM DJP - 2012-02-07 2:31 PM Can we just not ask them to put seat belts in the backward facing seats ???. YES you can, but it would have to be done at the build stage, not sure it can be retro fit. Well it could but at a massive price. Guys, AutoTrail already offer the option of 4 fully belted travel seats in the rear as an addition to a Double Dinette layout. It adds 25kg to the vehicle weight over and above the 25kg for the DD option so will involve a substantial seat belt anchorage. If you follow the links above that both Derek U and myself have posted this will become apparent! Sorry to be blunt but I thought we had both made this clear above. Keith. The OP did not state if the question related to a new van order or having the additional seat belts retro fitted. My post referred to the retro fit as your post had as you say already indicated quite correctly that it can be specified on a new build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-07 6:49 PM Keithl - 2012-02-07 5:22 PM ...May I suggest that you talk to AT and explain your very special circumstances and then they may be able to arrange a factory visit for you and all your family to see the production line and 'test drive' a Chieftain, both inside and on the road... Michele I agree wholeheartedly with Keith about discussing this with Auto-Trail. On paper, a Chieftain with the front double-dinette (DD) layout, plus the option of having 3-point seat-belts on the DD's rearwards-facing seats, looks like being as good as you are likely to get for your requirements with an 'off-the-shelf' motorhome. I don't think there's the option of having lap-belts on the DD's rearwards-facing seats - it's either 'proper' travel- seats (with high backs, head-rests and 3-point belts) or low back seats, no head-rests and no seat-belts. The sleeping arrangements of a Chieftain 'Hi-Line' with the DD layout would consist of a permanent double-bed over the cab, a permanent double-bed over the rear garage, and a central bed (or beds) constructed from the DD and the settee facing it. You'd need to check what effect (if any) the DD rearwards-facing seat-belts option would have on making up the central bed(s). The Truma 3.4kW S-3002 'fire' fitted to the Chieftain is, in principle, under-powered for such a large vehicle, but a higher output heater is not on the Auto-Trail options list. At least the S-3002 fire is simple, quiet, reliable and easy on the leisure battery. Truma does market a more powerful 5.5kW convector fire - the S-5002 - but it's a bulky brute and not approved for motorhome usage. Firstly thanks to everyone above I have learnt alot .Derek thanks again for over the years the help you have given us. . WE most probably will be going for this model as we have looked over for days and days the following First up, Derek's Burstner Argos 747-2 G. 5,000kg MAM, 700kg payload - unworkable! Fiat. Dethleffs Globetrotter XL-I 1780-2. 5,000kg MAM, 598kg payload - unworkable! Fiat. Dethleffs Globetrotter XXL-A 9000-2 6,700kg MAM, 1,490kg payload - OK. Iveco. Dethleffs Globetrotter XXL-A 9800-2 6,700kg MAM, 1,490kg payload - OK. Iveco. Eura Mobil Activa Style 770 EB. 5,000kg MAM, no payload data, presumed tight! Fiat. Hobby Sphinx A77 EM. 5,200kg MAM, 980kg payload - workable. Iveco. ITINEO SB 720 heavy. 4,250kg MAM, 1160kg payload - workable. Fiat. A-class. Laika Kreos 5001 SL. 5,200kg MAM, 788 payload - tight. Iveco. Rapido Serie 10 (any) 5,000kg MAM, payload 640kg - unworkable! A-class. Fiat. Saw some really nice ones in doing so but alas thats for when hubby & I retire and I am a long way off . So we arrived at the Chieftan we did love our last Bessacarr but didn't get a fantastic lot of help with the things that went wrong with it from Brownhills. Thats not swifts fault I know . After asking you all the AT group seem to shine through and I am impressed by what you all say . (watch hubby go back for a Bessie :D and I will of wasted all your time so I apologise in advance if this was to happen ) Can I ask some, what might seem really silly questions but I am a thicko and hubby is at work on the whole he sits with his computer and I sit with mine it works that way he would die of embarrasment if he saw what I put on here :D So will we get like home gas fire ? Does that mean the Chief comes with no blown air heating seperate to the fire ?. I like the DD with the small seats or lower should I say ,backing up to the drivers seat and the reason being is its more open planish . .Are you guys saying that because it won't come with seat belts/lap belts that I would have to loose that lower seat and have it made with a tallish seat ( replica of the otherside of the DD .?because it cant take a seat belt ? . Are we breaking any laws if we put in our own Lap belt ?. Should we have it re chipped as has been suggested by someone to a bigger blah blah blah . I know what I mean but can't explain it but I want the thing to have some poke . sure I will think of some more . Meantime we will hopefully be able to see them at Excel next Tuesday BUT we have never been before so are not quite sure how big it is.We were looking at brand new but this won't be our last so we have now been trawling sites and seen a good few second hand ones with very low milage and if it gets the children and us away we aint posh enough to worry aboutthe second hand bit . Also if we buy from a dealer we will get the DLA from the tax as the vehicle is for Freddie although all the children will go away in it as a family . Thanks guys once again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Keithl - 2012-02-07 5:22 PM michele - 2012-02-07 3:43 PM OMG so sorry . I sisn't see what you or Derek said . And I still can't find it on your link . Oh my dear I am stupid. help ! Hi Michele, Please accept my apologies for being rather blunt with my last post but I was rushing to post before leaving work, I'm home now so will help you find the details you require. First to look at a floorplan of a Double Dinette... Follow this Link and then click on 'Technical Layouts' haflf-way down the page. The fourth layout shows the DD with only Front facing seatbelts. Now to add the Rear facing additional belts... Click on 'Technical Features' to the left of the last button, then scroll down to the heading 'Safety Features' (it's a long way down!). The seventh option is '3 Point Rear Facing Belts, with high back rest and head rests. (Fitted to a Double Dinette - Option C)'. (I think there is an error here as this should be on Option B not C so may be worth asking AT to confirm). Finally if you click on 'Weight Calculator' and select 'Chieftain' in the Yellow model selector box on the right you can play with options and weights. Scroll down to 'Seatbelt options' then tick 'Double Full Dinette' now you will be able to tick '2 Seat Belts Fitted To Rear Facing Double Dinette'. And that's all there is to it! May I suggest that you talk to AT and explain your very special circumstances and then they may be able to arrange a factory visit for you and all your family to see the production line and 'test drive' a Chieftain, both inside and on the road. I hope this helps, Keith. Not only didnt I see it but I am slightly better at spelling with my glasses on *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 michele - 2012-02-07 7:59 PM 1. So will we get like home gas fire ? 2. Does that mean the Chief comes with no blown air heating seperate to the fire ? 3. I like the DD with the small seats or lower should I say ,backing up to the drivers seat and the reason being is its more open planish . .Are you guys saying that because it won't come with seat belts/lap belts that I would have to loose that lower seat and have it made with a tallish seat ( replica of the otherside of the DD .? because it cant take a seat belt ? 4. Are we breaking any laws if we put in our own Lap belt ? 5. Should we have it re chipped as has been suggested by someone to a bigger blah blah blah . I know what I mean but can't explain it but I want the thing to have some poke . 1. The Truma S-3002 heater used in the Chieftain looks like this - it's basically a convector heater and the Chieftain version will be the 'automatic-ignition' model. http://www.caravanfridges.co.uk/truma/s3002.htm 2. The Truma S-3002 'fire' fitted to the Chieftain will have a Trumavent fan-unit to provide blown-air heating, and an Ultraheat electric element to provide 230V heating. This arrangement is pretty much the norm for caravans and offers considerable versatility. An S-3002's maximum ouput running on gas alone is 3.4kW, while the maxmum output of the Ultraheat's 230V element is 2.0kW. So (as has be pointed out earlier) an S-3002 can potentially produce 5.4kW of heat ouput when operated on gas and 230V simultaneously. A Truma S-3002 + Trumavent + Ultraheat system is excellent for a fair sized caravan or a reasonably compact motorhome but, for a large motorhome (and a Chieftain is very definitely LARGE) that is not connected to a high-output 230V mains hook-up, an S-3002 running just on gas is unlikely to be able to produce a comfortable temperature throughout the motorhome if the weather is very cold. (See rolandrat's 'rallying' comments further up the thread). Auto-Trail has persisted with the Truma S-3002 + Trumavent + Ultraheat heating system when other motorhome manufacturers have moved to systems with higher heat outputs (eg. Truma's 6kW Combi). There's much to be said for a Truma 'fire'-based system, but its shortage of gas-only output has always been a potential disadvantage for large motorhomes. 3. As I said before, Auto-Trail doesn't appear to offer the option of just adding lap-belts to the rearwards-facing DD seats. I don't know if there is a UK/EU regulation preventing them doing so - it may simply be that buyers wishing to have seat-belts on the rearwards-facing DD seats will want 3-point belts not lap-belts. Having a couple of lap-belted passengers facing backwards in low-backed seats with nothing behind their heads to protect against whiplash seems like a bad plan to me if it's practicable to provide high-back seats, head-rests and 3-point belts as an alternative. 4. I don't know the answer to this, but I'd advise that you don't do it even if you can legally can. Even if you chose to have lap-belts fitted retrospectively (and assuming that it were possible to fit belts after the motorhome had been built) I'm guessing that the work involved for a 'proper' job would cost much as going for the factory-fitted 3-point belt option. See also http://www.campervanlife.com/forum/campervan-conversions/seat-belts-regulations-and-guidelines-for-camper-vans-and-motorhomes 5. 2012 Chieftains have the Euro V Fiat 2.3litre 150bhp motor as standard, or the 3.0litre 180bhp motor as an option. Me, I'd want the 3.0litre motor, but the 2.3litre should be adequate. I certainly would not contemplate opting for a new Chieftain with the 2.3litre 150bhp motor with the deliberate intention of 'chipping' it to a higher power output. Some of my comments above will be less appropriate if you bought second-hand. If, say, you could find an earlier-model Chieftain with DD but without the seat-belts on the rearwards-facing DD seats, then you'd need to consider more closely the legality/desirability of adding belts and which type of belts to have fitted. Also, if the second-hand Chieftain had the Euro IV Fiat 2.3litre 130bhp motor, you might well find it down on 'poke' and, if so, chipping the motor could be a sensible way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJP Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 ""Some of my comments above will be less appropriate if you bought second-hand. If, say, you could find an earlier-model Chieftain with DD but without the seat-belts on the rearwards-facing DD seats, then you'd need to consider more closely the legality/desirability of adding belts and which type of belts to have fitted. Also, if the second-hand Chieftain had the Euro IV Fiat 2.3litre 130bhp motor, you might well find it down on 'poke' and, if so, chipping the motor could be a sensible way to go"" There are no suitable anchorage points for the rear facing dinette seats. If you look at the substantial metal structure fitted to the dinette for the forward facing seats you will see what is required. The additional belts would also be included in MOT (when due). The Chieftain pre 2012 models was only fitted with a 3.0ltr (X250 base) and the 2.3 was only available for Euro V from 2012 model range. To soon to find a used model. As I said earlier and stand to be corrected again, you will be very lucky to find a DD set up with 4 belts (+driver+passenger belts) Not all Chieftains will come with a fire, some are blown air heating, which I said was very good at distributing heat on combined gas and eletric and I know this because that was the version we had. On gas only and no EHU you need loads of battery power and lots of gas. You will find the coldest area is towards the cab end, but that is the same with the majority of Fiat vans. ""Auto-Trail has persisted with the Truma S-3002 + Trumavent + Ultraheat heating system when other motorhome manufacturers have moved to systems with higher heat outputs (eg. Truma's 6kW Combi). "" The t Auto Trail tag axle varaints DO come with the Truma 6kw Combi unit. Not the 4kw as stated by those who know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Derek & DJP , thank you so much for all your help. I was doing fine understanding until DJP put in the last bit about ............he t Auto Trail tag axle varaints DO come with the Truma 6kw Combi unit. Not the 4kw as stated by those who know! Lost again will have to wait for hubby Men are from Mars women from venus if the cooker works and heating that me done and happy . :D Its complicated stuff for me anyway I am not saying all women .Wished I could get my head around it but figure thats what he's for . Michele can't wait to go look now . Thank you again .its appreciated very much, showed my husband last night and like you guys its straight into his box 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 michele - 2012-02-07 7:59 PM...............................I like the DD with the small seats or lower should I say ,backing up to the drivers seat and the reason being is its more open planish . .Are you guys saying that because it won't come with seat belts/lap belts that I would have to loose that lower seat and have it made with a tallish seat ( replica of the otherside of the DD .?because it cant take a seat belt ? . Are we breaking any laws if we put in our own Lap belt ?...................................... Hi Michele Just on the above: first, you will be unable to fit belts that would work if needed, as a DIY retro-fit. Second, the difference between the DD seats without belts, and those with, will be a stonking great steel frame, hidden inside the seat bases and backs, and bolted right through the van floor, that takes all the crash loads if the worst happens. The rear facing seats without those frames would be liable to collapse under frontal impact crash loads launching both occupants forward and up, potentially either to hit the driver/front seat passenger with potentially disastrous consequences - or exit via the windscreen. That is why the option adds so much weight. They are a properly engineered solution. Basically, that is why you would be unable to fit your own belts: there is nothing sufficiently substantial to which to attach them. Your problem is that you are now eating payload, and payload is what you will need. You have no option with some of this, but you'll have to be careful what you add, or you will have a van that has every facility you need, but that you can't use as you wish, because it has run out of payload. If you try to gain off hook-up time by boosting battery capacity, bang goes more payload. If you don't, you'll have to take a hook-up in cold weather to keep the van adequately warm. This is a big, long, van and the ends will be difficult to heat unless the blower is used. The heater Autotrial fit is a compromise that really only works in mild conditions, when one wants to "take the chill off". Many who use their vans only from spring to autumn, and avoid cold countries and higher altitudes, find them OK because they use virtually no electricity to run. So with underslung water tanks, they are fine until the going gets rough. These vans are not, IMO, fully winterised. The heat distribution is inadequate for Alpine winter conditions, and the water tanks need to be inboard. IMO, you need inboard tanks, and the largest Truma Combi, or an Alde wet system, to be secure on trips with disabled kids into the Alps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJP Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 At the end of the day it depends in regards to heating and how warm you want to be as to whether you are on EHU or not. Our last 2 vans an 840D (fixed rear bed tag axle Auto Trail) and the Chieftain were never really that warm when it was sub zero UNLESS the warm air blower was used at a fairly high setting, there by using or needing lots of power. If on EHU it was not a problem, we rarely use sites and therefore did not have EHU, hence the fact we had 4 batteries and as stated reduction in load capacity. Our current van an Arapaho (Auto Trail tag) has a fire, just by having the fire on a low/med setting the van is easy to maintain a 20' plus temperature and coupled with very little power usage it has to be the way to go with an Auto Trail. Not knowing you personal situation, but be aware it is a convector type fire and does get HOT to the touch. Not advisable if little ones are poking around. You could put a guard around it I guess. There is another option if you are using EHU when away is a 1 or 2kw fan heater at the cab end of the van. Some people will use an oil filled radiator, but I have never found them to be that good. I do not like the cold. As far as seat belts Mr Kirby is spot on and just reinforces the statement in my earlier post. If you did check out the Auto Trail website you would have seen the load capacity is reduced to under 400kg if the 4 belted DD option is fitted after usual items are deducted from the payload, passengers, water, fuel, gas etc. The entertainment system is well worth having especially if you fit a TV in rear over the bed. The kids could be watching TV or DVD at one end of the van and you watching something else at the other end of the van. The people who do not rate the system may possibly not know how to set it up correctly. The entertainment system comes with a PLUS option which is the inclusion of a sat dome on the roof and a built in sat. nav. But it all pushes the price up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 DJP - 2012-02-08 11:16 AM ...""Auto-Trail has persisted with the Truma S-3002 + Trumavent + Ultraheat heating system when other motorhome manufacturers have moved to systems with higher heat outputs (eg. Truma's 6kW Combi). "" The t Auto Trail tag axle varaints DO come with the Truma 6kw Combi unit. Not the 4kw as stated by those who know! Auto-Trail's general policy has been (and continues to be) that, if there's a full-size full-height wardrobe in a reasonably sensible place in a motorhome design's layout, then a Truma S-3002 gas/230V convector 'fire' with blown-air capability will be grafted on to the lower front of that wardrobe. In such cases the motorhome's size/number of axles is irrelevant - there will be no alternative to the Truma S-3002 for air-heating. If an Auto-Trail design has a wardrobe arrangement that inhibits use of an S-3002 fire, then a Truma Combi will be fitted instead, Models with tandem rear-axles will be fitted with a 6kW Combi 6E gas/230V air/water heater, while models with a single rear axle get a 4kw Combi 4E. Of the 2012 Auto-Trail 10-model "Frontier" range, 5 models (Cherokee, Comanche, Dakota, Delaware, Savannah) have Combis, while the rest have S-3002 fires. There's no real need to check the website Technical Features listings to identify which Auto-Trail models have 'fires' and which have Combis as the 'fire' is easily identifiable on the floor-plan drawings. The Frontier "Chieftain" tandem rear-axle model that Michele is interested in has an S-3002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJP Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 All I can say is our Chieftain had a 6002EH in the garage and NO fire :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 It all makes good reading and again thanks . Not sure I fully understand it when its written though better to show to him and get him to explain to me . Brian have taken on board that and the OH did explain that we will have to have a big post as you say all goes to take up the payload . This M/h choosing is a minefield. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 hi 'chele, you do have a complicated lifestyle don't you luv :D :D don't know if this helps but we've one of them there eberspacher heater thingies, I know it's only got to heat a titchy van but it's been really good and you're already carrying the diesel also, if you need to boost power - how about putting a load of solar panels on that massive roof of yours, can get some really neat, lightweight ultra slim ones designed for marine use xj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Oh Jacks yep I do :'( :'( I wished I understood ALL of it but I don't will have to just keep on reading and show hubby he's on lates :-( I am begining to worry over if we have choosen the right vehicle not the AT part but the warmth and will it do everything we need . After looking through quite alot, I know it won't happen over night mores the pity but the childrens needs have changed so much Freddie cant even walk or talk anymore . Where before we walked in saw Bessie and bought it on a sunday now we have to factor in two wheelchairs . Its not easy but we will get there . :-S Off to Excel next week so hopefully we will see quite a few trounble with that is hubbys always says , do you remember that and that and this 8-) OMG no I don't . Wish it was a Horse they are much easier :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 take lots of photos and make lots of notes, have fun, we await the next instalment :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 twooks - 2012-02-08 8:20 PM - how about putting a load of solar panels on that massive roof of yours, Jackie and Michele, All Auto-Trails now come with an 85W solar panel as standard so no need to worry about having one fitted later. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Keithl - 2012-02-08 8:41 PM twooks - 2012-02-08 8:20 PM - how about putting a load of solar panels on that massive roof of yours, Jackie and Michele, All Auto-Trails now come with an 85W solar panel as standard so no need to worry about having one fitted later. Keith. I seriously do not understand electricity, I think it's magic, performed by wizards at the unseen university, however - can you not increase power by increasing the number of solar panels - or doesn't it work like that - like *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJP Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Hi Michele I don't think whatever you choose (of that size) it will make that much difference to the warmth factor within the van. Auto Trail has one of the best insulated bodies on the market. It is just finding the right set up. Warm air blown needs lots of power and uses lots of gas Fire will need to be kept on virtually 24/7 but maybe not ideal with children. Will use less gas. Warm air on low setting plus fan heater needs EHU. Eberspacher plus either fire or blown air is a good combination. Uses diesel so need to keep an eye on the fuel level. Can be noisy on start up, as is the blown air heating. We did use one of these for a short while, again my not be suitable with children. http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/ha679cl.jpg It had gas detectors where it would turn off if it detected dangerous gases. Transportation could be a problem for you? We stopped using it when we bought the van with a fire. You could look at a high line Arapaho if you are not adverse to making a bed up in the rear. It has a huge U shaped lounge and as the lounge is at the back you are well away from the draughty cab, It has a fire and you can close the lounge area off from the rest of the van making it very cosy and warm. It also has the DD option. So there are solutions for all circumstances, it's just finding which one suits your needs. Good luck in your search! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 I wouldnt dismiss them but I would have to be convinced , everyone we have met with them dont seem to get much out of them . Dont they only work when the sun god shines ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 So there is a door to shut off the lounge ?> just interested thats all . We did fancy that but we cannot forgo the garage because of carrying the wheelchairs ,garage is a must as they dont fold . 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Hi again Michele, Your nearest dealer is... Cranham Motorhomes Old Gailey Park Southend Arterial Rd, Essex, RM14 1TJ Phone 01277 222444 It may be worth giving them a call to see what models they have on display before you go to Excel so at least you have some idea what you are looking at. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Michele, why not contact a company that builds motorhomes to your specific needs, Event homes is one such company who I understand are well respected: http://www.eventhomesukltd.co.uk/disabled.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 OMG Mel, they are as big as Horse Boxes lol if only I could afford can't imagine you 's get many miles to the gallon from one of them. No Excel it is and to the chap that mentioned Cranham. Thank you yes I know it well I find them very rude in as so much its Essex, and they think we are all chavs so they don't want to look in the vehicles they look you up and down and make a snap judgment on wether or not they think you have money . All van are locked and if you ask to see, its like too much trouble (thats been my experience more than once ). So will avoid thank you anyway for trying . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJP Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 michele - 2012-02-08 9:00 PM So there is a door to shut off the lounge ?> just interested thats all . We did fancy that but we cannot forgo the garage because of carrying the wheelchairs ,garage is a must as they dont fold . 8-) It's more of a concertina horizontal folding screen than a door, but it does make it nice and cosy. I understand what you say by the need for a garage if the chairs do not fold. Did you know you van have wider entrance doors fitted. Just ask the guys at Excel. The Auto Trail sales guys Scott and or Gavin will be there ,plus the joint MD's? They wont sell you a van but will tell you what can and can't be done. Speak to them before speaking to a salesman who may promise the earth and deliver very little. I wish you every success in your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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