carroll Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 :-D Hello from a Newbiee.... I wondered if you good people can help me Please!!!! I'm sorry if this has been covered before but here goes.... I'm traveling to France in our much loved Autotrail Tracker 4 berth. I would like to know what the French law is on passengers sitting in the back of the van which doesn't have seat belts, our van has two side facing seats so therefore seat belts have never been fitted(hope this makes sence) We're planning to use Aires, Do you have any favourites? Also apart from the usuall things we need to take with us i.e spare bulbs, first aid box, triangles, high visible vest and the new breathalyser, is there anything else we need to think about. Thanks Carroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Is there anything else......If you value your passengers safety maybe a new van? Sorry if this sounds harsh but I cant believe you carry people in side on facing rear seats....Setting aside the complete neglect of passengers safety, in a collision they could fly forward and severerly injure, even kill you up front also....I pray these are not children we are talking about In the UK: •All vehicles manufactured since 2001 must have seat belts fitted for each passenger. If you have added seats (via a campervan conversion) you are outside of this law. •Selt belts must be used whenever fitted, with no exception. •It is highly advised to fit seat belts to all forward facing seats. •It is highly advised to never let passengers travel in side facing seats, as the effects of whiplash and other impact related injuries are very severe from the side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1ntersun Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hi, Forgetting the law in France how would you get your passengers to the ferry terminal without breaking UK law ? Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Please point me in the correct direction where this law is. When I search "seat belt law" I find "The Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts) Regulations 1993'' and in this under exemptions I find "©a person riding in the rear of a vehicle if no adult belt is available for him in the rear of the vehicle." I assume this has been changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carroll Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Actually I haven't taken any person in the back on my van... I bought my van for only the two of us. I have a cousin who would like a lift as she is a foot passenger, but i'm sure she will be quite happy to get a taxi as usuall.... Carroll :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carroll Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Just to add to last comment I don't have any forward facing seats in the back of my van only side facing seats.... I was only asking as the information ive read is very confusing!!!! But thanks for all your comments.. Carroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 When I had classic cars that were not fitted with seat belts it wasn't a problem so I assume its the same with campers........if they were not required to be fitted then they were obviously not required to be worn in the UK..........no doubt someone will know re France........alternatively black gaffer tape stuck at an angle across your T shirt should fool the bizzies ;-) I joke ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Carroll, to answer the later part of your posting where do you intend to go? The "All the Aires" book is worth purchasing. My favourites are in Normandy and Brittany and have just booked the tunnel, my first experience of this way to cross the channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 carroll - 2012-05-19 5:24 PM Just to add to last comment I don't have any forward facing seats in the back of my van only side facing seats.... I was only asking as the information ive read is very confusing!!!! But thanks for all your comments.. Carroll This webpage provides information about the application to UK motorhomes of the UK's seat-belt regulations: http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome-faqs.shtml#seatbelts Regarding Fench law, my understanding is that, if a motorhome has rear seating without seat-belts, those seats can legally be used by passengers when the motorhome is being driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I travelled about 500yds on our rear facing side seats we were doing about 15mph a dog ran out in front of us O.H did an emergency stop 8-) I wacked my head on the side of the dresser BOY did it hurt I was very worried for a couple of days I thought I might have done damage!! its not worth it Dont risk . My advise for Aires, get the All Aires book France or the Asci book of camp sites we also have the Borg Atlas France, there are so many dotted allover France you need to decide where you are going then look for Aires/sites. Were heading for Annecy in the French Alps in a couple of weeks time stopping on route at a couple of Aires then in to Switzerland and Austria . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 My understanding is that if your vehicle was registered prior to some date in 2007, then there is no restriction on carrying passengers in either side or rear facing seats that do not have a seat belt fitted. Our motorhome has side facing seats in the rear and we have carried passengers on those seats. The only law that affects this is if there are belted seats available, i.e. fitted in the vehicle, then children must use those before an adult, who can use the unbelted seat quite legally, whether it is safe is a matter for you and the user, in our case we are not overly concerned when using use them. My understanding is that it is the same situation in France. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 This was posted by Keithl (17-5-12) on the "newbie" thread, regarding the Law in the UK;- "If you are planning to take the little darlings away at any time then make sure your prospective purchase has adequate officially designated travel seats. The law changed in October 2007 and after that date passengers can ONLY be transported in designated seats and NO other! It is also not advisable to carry passengers in side facing seats or only wearing lap belts, so be very careful in your choice. There are also mixed views on carrying passengers in the rear lounge of a MH, what would happen in the event of a rear end shunt? HTH, Keith." & expanded "What I meant to say is that for any vehicle REGISTERED after October 2007 you can ONLY use designated seats (usually symbolised by a sticker showing a passenger wearing a seatbelt). For vehicles registered before that date you do not have to obey the rule but common sense is to always use a seatbelt and NOT sit in a side facing seat. Now isn't that a better explanation! Keith." BUT, irrespective of the Legality for whatever Country - Please don't have ANY passengers in Unbelted Seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugga Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Auto Trail do a 4 berth motorhome that has side seat belts, and that is a Tracker 2011/12 model. We all know that these are not very good, so why do well respected companies like Autotrail fit them? It is all very shocking to me, especially as its likely to be children sitting in them. If you buy one, what do you do if you want to take your kids on holiday with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Cheryl, The only AutoTrail models in the Tracker range I can find with rear seat belts are the RS and FB and then these ONLY WITH the half dinette option and on FORWARD facing seats. As far as I can remember AutoTrail DO NOT make any model with seat belts on side facing seats as these have been illegal since October 2007. If you disagree please can you provide a link to show me otherwise. Keith. Edit added 'FORWARD facing seats' for clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Agree with Keithl The Autotrails are available with belted seats throughout their range - As a factory fitted option, when choosing the 1/2 dinette (2 forward facing 3 point seatbelts) On their larger models there is an additional option for a double dinette (DD) which can be with 2 forward facing or 4 (2 forward facing 3 point seatbelts, 2 rear facing) seatbelts. They are clearly identified which are available, per model on the Autotrail website, under the "Weight Calculator" tab. Double Half Dinette with 2 Forward Facing Seatbelts (HD, option 'A' in the brochure) Double Full Dinette with 2 Forward Facing Seatbelts (DD, option 'B' in the brochure) Lounge 'L' Shaped Dinette with 2 Forward Facing Seatbelts (LD, option 'C' in the brochure) 2 Seat Belts Fitted To Rear Facing Double Dinette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carroll Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 Thanks everyone for all your comments... BUT what a debate this has been. I was only asking as the Law on seat belts is very confusing... I even contacted a few insurance company's who quite frankly wern't sure either.. All i have been told is if seat belts are fitted they must be used... We bought Autotrail tracker eks 2007 for just the two of us, sadly no children at home these days all grown up & doing their own thing.. We will be going to Normandy in France at the end June, I have just orderd my AIres book from the internet and await its arrival... I'm sure this topic will be asked again in the future... Many thanks for all the info Carrol ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Regarding French 'aires', there's useful information here: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Aires Another handy website is this one: http://www.i-campingcar.fr/accueil.htm Most aires de service have a fresh-water tap with a 3/4" BSP threaded outlet (the same outlet as a normal UK outside garden tap). However, a few aires have taps with a smaller or larger threaded outlet. It's possible to obtain fittings (or adapters) from DIY or garden centres to allow connecting to such taps. An example with a 1/2" reducer is shown here: http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/320673955793?var=lv A 1" adapter is shown here: http://www.cleanstore.co.uk/products/Product.asp?ID=4221 It's something worth being aware of, though not something to be greatly concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I used to drive around with 60 plus people in the back of my vehicle non of whom wore a seat belt...........some were even standing up 8-) Bus drivers eh *-) ................ (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-05-20 9:49 AM I used to drive around with 60 plus people in the back of my vehicle non of whom wore a seat belt...........some were even standing up 8-) Bus drivers eh *-) ................ (lol) (lol) (lol) So that's how you made your money, importing immigrants across the ditch & charging mega Euro's (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Well thanks for all the info which however with my 2005 Reg MH is as clear as mud and would depend on the Police's interpretation of if I was likely to injure my passengers. Has the OPs original question about France been answered as that concerns me more about the unknown. My next biggest concern is when I get on my local Stagecoach bus and there is only a side facing seat do I take it and risk all manners of injury or do I walk and then face the risk of being run over, delema, delema, delema :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 sshortcircuit - 2012-05-20 9:13 PM Well thanks for all the info which however with my 2005 Reg MH is as clear as mud and would depend on the Police's interpretation of if I was likely to injure my passengers. Has the OPs original question about France been answered as that concerns me more about the unknown. My next biggest concern is when I get on my local Stagecoach bus and there is only a side facing seat do I take it and risk all manners of injury or do I walk and then face the risk of being run over, delema, delema, delema :-D It's the joke of century, in England and Wales very few bus's have seat belts esp. those transporting kids to school, yet try transporting a kid yourself without a seat belt and your seen as some kind of murderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 sshortcircuit - 2012-05-19 4:54 PM Please point me in the correct direction where this law is. When I search "seat belt law" I find "The Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts) Regulations 1993'' and in this under exemptions I find "©a person riding in the rear of a vehicle if no adult belt is available for him in the rear of the vehicle." I assume this has been changed? Hi SShortcircuit I haven't read all the text, but I think this link relates to the amendments http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/1892/contents/made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Thanks Flika for providing the info. At the moment I have had a few "low fliers" so have just had a quick look. What you have provided appears to be amendments to some regulation and is looks like it refers to the carrying of children only. Will have a closer look tomorrow. Still interested to find out what the situation is in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 sshortcircuit - 2012-05-20 10:38 PM ...Still interested to find out what the situation is in France. French motoring law is enshrined in their "Code de la Route" and, unsurprisingly, this 'code' primarily targets French mototorists driving French-registered vehicles. Consequently, there can be (and are) differences between the requirements of the Code de la Route and the UK's motoring regulations. For example, French motoring requirements relating to carriage of high-visibilty waistcoats, warning triangles, GPS speed-camera warning devices or breathalysers are not part of the UK's motoring law. Before commenting above "Regarding French law, my understanding is that, if a motorhome has rear seating without seat-belts, those seats can legally be used by passengers when the motorhome is being driven." I looked at the appropriate parts of the Code de la Route and browsed through a number of websites. As far as I can establish, if the UK regulations that relate to carrying passengers in a UK-registered motorhome (as summarised in the ukmotorhomes.net link I provided above) are adhered to while the vehicle is being driven in France, then the relevant French seat-belt regulations should also be satisfied. (Nowadays there are supplementary motoring regulations (UK and French) covering carriage of child passengers but, as Carroll's cousin was clearly not a child, I chose not to mention that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 flicka - 2012-05-20 10:16 PM sshortcircuit - 2012-05-19 4:54 PM Please point me in the correct direction where this law is. When I search "seat belt law" I find "The Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts) Regulations 1993'' and in this under exemptions I find "©a person riding in the rear of a vehicle if no adult belt is available for him in the rear of the vehicle." I assume this has been changed? Hi SShortcircuit I haven't read all the text, but I think this link relates to the amendments http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/1892/contents/made The above link shows the Regulations were amended to comply with EU Regulations, so I assume the situation in France will be the same. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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