RogerC Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 It's good to hear you are getting some 'proper' attention but....and IMO it's a big but, with the incredible inflow of water you experienced it must have got into an awful lot of places.......the roof, the cupboards, floor, joints etc therefore I presume the MH was soaking. Short of a cast iron guarantee that there is no water ingress or dampness to be concerned about I would be dubious about accepting anything other than a replacement vehicle. I know this might sound drastic but assuming you keep the MH for some years you could be on the slippery slope (no pun intended) to some major damp problems in future. Even if you sell it on in the near future some poor soul could be in for a big shock with massive damp problems. Just my 2d input and all the best whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean.clarke Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 RogerC - 2012-09-06 8:11 PM It's good to hear you are getting some 'proper' attention but....and IMO it's a big but, with the incredible inflow of water you experienced it must have got into an awful lot of places.......the roof, the cupboards, floor, joints etc therefore I presume the MH was soaking. Short of a cast iron guarantee that there is no water ingress or dampness to be concerned about I would be dubious about accepting anything other than a replacement vehicle. I know this might sound drastic but assuming you keep the MH for some years you could be on the slippery slope (no pun intended) to some major damp problems in future. Even if you sell it on in the near future some poor soul could be in for a big shock with massive damp problems. Just my 2d input and all the best whatever you decide. Disagree - don't forget, the components won't be bone dry when these vans start to be produced, timbers may well be delivered damp/wet etc. it's how the yards operate. If AutoTrail are doing it properly they will have dehumidifiers working 24hrs drying it out - consumer units can take 20+ litres an hour out of the atmosphere, the commercial kit can do a hell of a lot more. The dehumidifiers should bring the atmosphere inside the unit to lower humidity levels than the outside conditions ensuring it is well and truly died out. I have seen boats under feet of water taken out and dried out to be completely 100% dry, so dry in fact that once complete they need to be left to actually soak up normal moisture to return to normal humidity levels once the equipment has been switched off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Well, As said I cannot fault their service nor the guy who called he was very polite as said he expressed that he had seen the pictures on here , the fact that they are acting very quickly and taking this very seriously . I can only believe what they say and just wait to take delivery of it back again. I am sure that they will be on the roof theirself testing and testing . And so far as said many times before I cannot fault their service . We really are quite easy going people and its not in our nature to moan /fight argue . So we are inclined to trust people It did ruin the holiday but it was in all fairness the end of it . We are just so lucky I woke because Fred could not of coped with that amount of water being injested she would aspirate and die thank god she still has the capability to turn her head Not wishing to make a drama out of a crisis, they have been kind and offered above an beyond people always say that they worry about the after sales . We can only talk good of them lets hope they never change . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Good stuff, Michele. Then how about asking Autotrail for an extended warranty, or a long term indemnity against a repeat? Shouldn't be too big an ask if they are really confident they have bottomed the problem. It was a traumatic experience for you all, and must have taken a lot of the shine off your holiday - even if you do laugh about it a few years hence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Um , how would an extended warranty work .Or a long term indemnity Oh god I am so thick haha. Malcolm always said it was my beautiful brain that did it ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 hi Michele Just been able to read your thread in full. So sorry you had such a traumatic experience & awful end to you holiday. Thankfully the kids are all OK & you were able to continue your homeward journey. Elite & Autotrail appear to have responded with the due urgency regarding rectifying the problems. From what I have read in the thread, it appears Autotrail have concentrated on telling you what they are replacing rather than the full scope of work required. You mentioned early on that the walls were stained purple, which despite any amount of dehumidification will not be removed - So are they removing the wall covering & applying new wall fabrics ? Also if water "overflowed" the Heki, it' is possible that it could also have seeped into the roof insulation - So for peace of mind, (& to reduce the stresslevels during future use) ask them to remove the Heki, to check the insulation around the opening shows no water staining, before refitting. You also mentioned water entry from (or around) the Air-Con Unit - is this being investigated (?) Maybe I am being overcautious, but it's a h**l of an investment you have put into the Motorhome & anything that eases your concerns for the future (& eventually resale value) needs to be addressed NOW whilst it's at Autotrail's premises, not at sometime in the future when it may entail a greater amount of remedial work. Better a few extra days now than constantly watching the ceiling when it rains whilst back on the road. Regular forum members know you have taken various knocks in the past & always bounce back. It's your strength & I'm sure you'll do the same again. Good luck & best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickydripin Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Hi Michele It is no good being worried every time that it rains the one thing that you can do when you get the motorhome back is take it to the nearest truck wash and ask them to run it up and down a few times with the brushes turned off that will soon tell you if there are any leaks. It may cost you around £20 or so but it will be worth it in the long run Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-09-06 9:27 PM Good stuff, Michele. Then how about asking Autotrail for an extended warranty, or a long term indemnity against a repeat? Shouldn't be too big an ask if they are really confident they have bottomed the problem. It was a traumatic experience for you all, and must have taken a lot of the shine off your holiday - even if you do laugh about it a few years hence! take notice of brian...extended warrenty!! get it sorted..sorry to be so blunt!! but dont take the van back!! tell em to give you a new one..end of autotrail have been good..thats why we bought one.. but reject it!! YOU NEED A NEW ONE :-D jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-09-06 7:22 PM pelmetman - 2012-09-06 7:08 PM Gas Reg's :-S...........................I reckon I have a problem then, as the gas drop in Horace is a hole in the gas locker floor 8-).................but it appears it should be in the roof *-) No. Gas heavier than air, so it drops, hence "gas drops". This is absolutely correct the "drop hole" is to allow LPG (which unlike NG is heavier than air) to escape in the event of a gas leak. However "adequate" air is also required to aid correct combustion of a gas flame. I am not fully familiar with "Caravan / mobile home" gas regs as we only do commercial gas however there definately will be a reg that gives the ammount of air required in a caravan / mobile home. Rather than cutting a great big louvered vent in the side of your van I am pretty sure that converters / manufacturers will use other means to fulfill the requirement. Therefore one should not assume that what the dealer / manufacturer states regarding this seel is not correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 All sorted and very pleased ! Bit late in telling you all we have had the van back since last Friday . We have new carpets new furniture above and beyond new bedding for the back bed & over cab bed also which at no point got wet . Must say its nice to see it gleeming again . The extended warranty we don't need and the reason why is they already guarantee that it wont have water damp ingress and if anything should happen they will no about it straight away and that would be looked after on its warranty anyway . We are happy with this . So all in all a brilliant service and we are now looking to book the next holiday . Thanks for every ones help with it . Forgot to say the Heki now has a big black velvet surround . It feels like it will definately do the job . I only wished I was able to post pics on here to show you all the difference between this one and any other we have had . Not sure where they have vented to now and really dont care had enough of these hekis over the years . freezing cold lets just hope that when we set off again in a few weeks this one really does the job and neither lets in rain or cold air . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 michele - 2012-09-22 5:31 PM All sorted and very pleased ! ...Forgot to say the Heki now has a big black velvet surround . It feels like it will definately do the job.... ..... lets just hope that when we set off again in a few weeks this one really does the job and neither lets in rain or cold air . Glad you're happy with it........But........ What's(and why?) a "velvet surround"...? (lol) ..and rather than "..lets just hope...",surely it wouldn't have better to get then to show you how "weather tight" it was,by getting them to blast a hose at it?...it'll be a bit late once your off away on your travels again... :-S Also ,- .."..they already guarantee that it wont have water damp ingress.."..Well,just how can they tell where and how far all that water reached..? :-S And although they tell you they'd "do" any additional work if it ever needed it,would they supply you with a comparable replacement van whilst this work is carried out?... Personally at the very least,I'd want an extended warranty,along with some sort of "buy back clause",in case it does turn out to be a lemon(...that is,if I accepted it back in the first palce..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Glad your happy with the service you received Michele I bet your looking forward to getting away again I hope thats the last of your bad luck for a very long time. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I am realy pleased Michelle that things have worked out for you and Autotrail, so pleased my faith in a van and company is correct. Enjoy your next holiday. Will remember your comments about Elite as well. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Hi Michelle, We had an Autotrail (2nd one) for 6 weeks and had a battery problem - in that the accomodation batteries "boiled" when charged on mains (they did not keep their charge when on our first holiday - straight after collection). After much foot stomping and quoting "not fit for purpose" we finally had a visit from the dealer to inspect the ruined interior - everything from fridge to blinds were affected and electric cables were brown from the acid fumes. The chairman from Autotrail arrived next and arranged for a full refund and for it to be "low loaded" back to the factory as it was too toxic to drive, where they eventually (we were told later) had to completely gut the interior and rebuild it. Certainly sounds as if you have grounds to return the van and, if you re-order from them, ask for a discount off the next one too. Good luck whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 sean.clarke - 2012-09-06 8:21 PM Disagree - don't forget, the components won't be bone dry when these vans start to be produced, timbers may well be delivered damp/wet etc. it's how the yards operate. The timbers used would be kiln dried to something like 8-12% moisture content (information from a supplier of timber to MH manufacturer) and stored in the dry ready for use. Any manufacturer using wet timber would be building in damp/warping problems from the outset so I can't in all honesty agree with this comment. Regardless of the foregoing Michele it's good to hear you're sorted and happy with the result. Did they sort out the water staining you mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean.clarke Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 RogerC - 2012-09-26 11:30 AMsean.clarke - 2012-09-06 8:21 PM Disagree - don't forget, the components won't be bone dry when these vans start to be produced, timbers may well be delivered damp/wet etc. it's how the yards operate. The timbers used would be kiln dried to something like 8-12% moisture content (information from a supplier of timber to MH manufacturer) and stored in the dry ready for use. Any manufacturer using wet timber would be building in damp/warping problems from the outset so I can't in all honesty agree with this comment.I didn't say "wet", all I said was bone dry - they may be kiln dried, but deliver and storage will see them absorb ambient moisture, the point I was making is the dehumidifiers can dry the environment to a dryier than "natural humidity" level.There seemed to be some suggestions that the van would never be able to get dry, the point I was trying to make is commercial dehumidifiers are more than up to the job of thoroughly drying out an environment (I've seen them work on flooded boats drying them out in 48 hrs etc.)Wasn't suggesting they use papermache (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 the screws have seals..these fail and water enters camper...new seals are a simple while you wait job..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean.clarke Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Roger: Ahh, yes - I did use the word wet, sorry thats not what I meant. Can someone send me a slice of humble pie? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 sean.clarke - 2012-09-26 11:47 AM ...There seemed to be some suggestions that the van would never be able to get dry, the point I was trying to make is commercial dehumidifiers are more than up to the job of thoroughly drying out an environment... That,is of cause assuming that they used a "commercial dehumidifier"?.. They may well have just left it to "dry out",whilst they worked on the Heki?(.."work" that has resulted in it now having a,quote:" big,black velvet surround",what ever one of those is?).. Just going off what was portrayed in the opening posts,with water cascading through,not only the rooflight but also through the air con unit,soaked and stained wall boards,sodden soft furnishings etc),it sounded as if there would be a lot more to it than just that "drying it out" and throwing some new cushions in...:-S (..although I suppose they *have* let Michele keep the old cushions... Which is good of them.. *-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 RogerC - 2012-09-26 11:30 AMsean.clarke - 2012-09-06 8:21 PM Disagree - don't forget, the components won't be bone dry when these vans start to be produced, timbers may well be delivered damp/wet etc. it's how the yards operate. The timbers used would be kiln dried to something like 8-12% moisture content (information from a supplier of timber to MH manufacturer) and stored in the dry ready for use. Any manufacturer using wet timber would be building in damp/warping problems from the outset so I can't in all honesty agree with this comment. Regardless of the foregoing Michele it's good to hear you're sorted and happy with the result. Did they sort out the water staining you mentioned?Yes totally taken care of we are to get all new seating the water staining was purple from Freddies milk which comes delivered in boxes of eight (purple) . It seems to be gone . I have just heard of another with the same thing oh dear whats happening I just hope that they manage to get it sorted out , Whjat I do find rather strange is why some Heki's work and some dont ? weird or what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I still thing the problem isn't the Hekis, Michele, it is how thay are fitted, and how the roof is designed. Too much water on the roof overtops the relatively small Heki upstand, and too much water on the roof means insufficient is getting off, which means the means of draining the roof is suspect under heavy rain. That remains my diagnosis until someone is able to prove some other cause! :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I was looking at a Vanmaster caravan on the last site we were at. The roof was what looked like a single GRP moulding that was gently curved so that there was no chance of any water being trapped and ponding on the roof. One wonders why motorhome manufacturers don't do the same. They all seem to be designed to hold water. Our previous Rapido and present AutoTrail both do so. Fortunately it does not reach where any roof lights are but it is where the front and middle section of the roof join. Hope the seal is good. On one occasion there was so much water up there that I managed to soak the wife when I dropped off the leveling blocks just as she reached down to pick one up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Colin Leake - 2012-09-30 8:19 PM ....Fortunately it does not reach where any roof lights are but it is where the front and middle section of the roof join. Hope the seal is good....! We had/have a similar situation with our Chausson...For peace of mind I bonded(sikaflex)a 60mm wide flat pvc moulding over the join(..leaving it slightly short each end,to aid run off).. I'd be interested to know just what has been "done" to Michele's "Heki",that stops this from happening again...Have they just refitted seals?...have they sat it a "plinth"..?..has it been changed for another type("now has velvet surround")..? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwaviation Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Glad to hear that its been sorted out Michele, Nightmare! First thing I did was put some aluminium tape over my roof joint that sealed the front pod to the back Would be interested to hear more about these Heki rooflight seals (Heki 2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Just has a look at the design of the various models of Heki rooflights. Each model has seals available and most sit in a U channel. The Earlier models (2) have brusg strip type seals and no indicaton what the late ones are but possibly much the same. Hence reference to velvet seals. However, looking at the window frame and canopy design there is a fundamental flaw. The gap between the canopy and roof appear quite small, and this can give rise to an issue when water floods across the roof against the window. It can flood in under force of it gushing over the roof, so in effect gets forced in under pressure, especially in a wind or running of a sloping cab roof or indeed sloping window frame/roof. It cannot escape as fast through the narrow gap other side of where it flows in or around the sides because it has lost its momentum/pressure. So it will build up under the canopy until it floods in. I can see this happening in most installations with torrential rain. If the canopy to roof gap was much larger then the flow around window to build up the rising water level under the canopy would have to much greater so therefore ther is actually is more protection, the water getting in being able to escape. The down side being a sudden flood of water could get in easier, such has from a hose pipe or say a bucket of water sloshed over. e.g. going under a bridge say, draining loads of water at one point. So whilst a narrow gap is great for normal rain and ventilation purposes I see it as totally unsuitable for really heavy rain and slushy hailstorms. A larger gap between canopy and roof would be better. Another negative of a larger gap is going to be possible wind noise when driving. Catch 22 and bests solution is to fit seals. Venting by this method really is not a good idea and you just need to look at the number of times people have mentioned leaks from their Heki rooflights. So if I was an owner of one of these, I would fit seals without a doubt and then think about how I can achieve the reqired ventilation elsewhere such as a cowled vent or two strategically placed or smaller roof vents which have seals but still provide ventilation such as the Fiamma opening roof vents. The ironic thing is, if Michele had actually opened her rooflight very slightly it may have stopped the water coming in. I believe Brian is correct with his sypnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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