Guest pelmetman Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 fuzhi123 - 2012-09-01 5:24 PM It is indeed, as I've got two spare Transit arm-rests I could have sold you at an inordinate price. www.brandbeltsoutlet.com cheap louis vuitton belts www.urbanchinashop.com cheap gucci sunglasses www.urbansunglassessale.com cheap gucci sunglasses www.urbanbrandstore.com cheap coogi clothing www.urbansalestore.com cheap gucci clothing www.brandmallshop.com cheap louis vuitton shoes www.ebuychinashop.com cheap Armani clothing Well at least the spam now days as a sense of humour :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-09-01 5:05 PM My 99 Transit has 2 arm rests, but my 1990 camper doesn't :-( ....................I like them in the works van and use them all the time ;-).............as for Mr Ford making to a price... *-)............just a couple of examples 1990 camper has a seat winder on BOTH sides...........99 has just one... 1990 camper has glass headlamps..............99 has plastic which are now so scratched its only a matter of time before they fail the MOT *-) Yes Ford did some weird things though it's not always them.....can sometimes be the 'spec' the original owner agreed when buying the vehicle from new. My Duetto (2000 reg) is an example where the original owner must have been a tight wad (even though he was from the South). Wind up windows fitted (electrics are easy to fit but a set of used are well sought after and soon sell). No Rev counter. OK that's no big deal for me and once again can be 'retro fitted'. Also, unlike most Duetto's, mine is on steel wheels and not alloys. The usual spec for all AS Duetto's is ally's. If anything, it's the windows I want changing over as power windows are useful for a solo person travelling alone. Mine also has plastic light unit lenses and that most certainly is an example of 'building down to a price'. Plastic is far cheaper to manufacture than glass. But the upside is 'Tranny's' are plentiful and a pair of good units will come in at a fraction of the price of new ones. Feel glad you are not amongst those who chose to buy some obscure expensive MH (because it had fancy decals or they liked the upholstery colour!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Bulletguy - 2012-09-01 5:29 PM pelmetman - 2012-09-01 5:05 PM My 99 Transit has 2 arm rests, but my 1990 camper doesn't :-( ....................I like them in the works van and use them all the time ;-).............as for Mr Ford making to a price... *-)............just a couple of examples 1990 camper has a seat winder on BOTH sides...........99 has just one... 1990 camper has glass headlamps..............99 has plastic which are now so scratched its only a matter of time before they fail the MOT *-) Yes Ford did some weird things though it's not always them.....can sometimes be the 'spec' the original owner agreed when buying the vehicle from new. My Duetto (2000 reg) is an example where the original owner must have been a tight wad (even though he was from the South). Wind up windows fitted (electrics are easy to fit but a set of used are well sought after and soon sell). No Rev counter. OK that's no big deal for me and once again can be 'retro fitted'. Also, unlike most Duetto's, mine is on steel wheels and not alloys. The usual spec for all AS Duetto's is ally's. If anything, it's the windows I want changing over as power windows are useful for a solo person travelling alone. Mine also has plastic light unit lenses and that most certainly is an example of 'building down to a price'. Plastic is far cheaper to manufacture than glass. But the upside is 'Tranny's' are plentiful and a pair of good units will come in at a fraction of the price of new ones. Feel glad you are not amongst those who chose to buy some obscure expensive MH (because it had fancy decals or they liked the upholstery colour!). My works van has electric windows ;-) ..................and Air conditioning :-D..................although it needs regassing :-( ................I'll do that when the summer arrives :-D........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Yes Ford did some weird things though it's not always them.....can sometimes be the 'spec' the original owner agreed when buying the vehicle from new. My Duetto (2000 reg) is an example where the original owner must have been a tight wad (even though he was from the South). Wind up windows fitted (electrics are easy to fit but a set of used are well sought after and soon sell). No Rev counter. OK that's no big deal for me and once again can be 'retro fitted'. Also, unlike most Duetto's, mine is on steel wheels and not alloys. The usual spec for all AS Duetto's is ally's. If anything, it's the windows I want changing over as power windows are useful for a solo person travelling alone. Mine also has plastic light unit lenses and that most certainly is an example of 'building down to a price'. Plastic is far cheaper to manufacture than glass. But the upside is 'Tranny's' are plentiful and a pair of good units will come in at a fraction of the price of new ones. Feel glad you are not amongst those who chose to buy some obscure expensive MH (because it had fancy decals or they liked the upholstery colour!). It sounds from your description that you have a Duetto LE. The LE was built on the last of the MK5 Transits and the equipment list that you mention is correct for that model, including the 15 inch steel wheels (earlier Duettos had 14 inch alloy wheels). The "LE" was supposed to stand for "Limited Edition", but popularly was know as standing for "Less Equipment" (as you have described). Sorry, slightly off topic I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Arms v no arms. So how many times when driving down the road do you want to get in the back of the van? *-) How many times when parked up do you want to get into the cab? :-D Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Bulletguy - 2012-09-01 2:13 PM ips - 2012-08-30 3:27 PM I notice that the new tranny's have got double armrests were as mine only has the one. I feel well and truly left out now, is there any way of retro fitting the aformentioned extra armrest ?? Depends on what you are calling 'the new tranny's'? If Mk6 or 7 then they will only have one arm rest....the logic being that it costs less to install one than it does two. All later model vehicles (not only Trannys) are built down to a price. My AS Duetto is on a Ford Transit Mk5 2000 reg so has two arm rests. This truly is a weird thread with folk whining that if their seats were fitted with two armrests, they would remove one. Why??? They are hinged! You don't have to have both rests down......it's not compulsory!! In fact i've often driven miles with both up before realising I have that 'extra' comfort you singletons don't have! :D The "new tranny" reference relates to the latest upgrade of the Transit Mk 7 with Euro 5 motors. Based on Ford's advertising for this Transit version, cab-seats with dual arm-rests are not standard across the range, but an option primarily targeting the motorhome market. The description is as follows: "Front-swivelling Captain's Chairs* To make your Motorhome even more practical, comfortable and flexible you can choose the option of front-swivelling Captain’s Chairs with dual armrests. These make the maximum use of space within your vehicle. *Specification may vary depending on the motorhome manufacturer and model you choose." The type of seat fitted to your Mk 5 Duetto that, besides having dual angle-adjustable arm-rests could have pneumatic lumbar support and heating, was regularly fitted to motorhomes of that era but , as far as I'm aware Ford has never offered swivelling seats as an option before. Dual arm-rest seats have been available for Mk 6/Mk 7 Transit-based motorhomes as an expensive option offered by the motorhome manufacturer (eg. Hymer, Hobby), but these have been Aguti- or Isri-branded seats not sourced from Ford's parts-bin. Not sure where you've got the idea that people have been "whining" about cab-seat arm-rests. I removed the dual arm-rests from each of my Herald's cab seats and the single arm-rest from each of my Hobby's seats. The reasons for doing this are, for me, that cab-seat arm-rests are (literally) a waste of space. Lowered they obstruct the movement of my arms when I'm driving and make reaching the handbrake-lever impossible - I don't recognise that they will contribute any "extra comfort" to my driving experience. Raised or lowered, they will inevitably reduce the (already limited) space between the cab-seats. Having concluded that the arm-rests are superfluous, as it's easy to take them off it would be perverse for me to leave them on. Of the respondants to ips's original posting, four have said that they have removed the arm-rests from their motorhome's cab-seats, but I don't see that equates to "whining". I don't want arm-rests on my motorhome's cab-seats, but, if other people do that's their business. As I've no problem understanding the attraction arm-rests might have, it should surely not be too difficult for arm-rest aficionados to appreciate why other people might take an opposite view. (A link to a relevant discussion on the Ford Transit thread was provided at the start of this thread.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Thanks for your as ever very informative input Derek. Sounds like this may not be the easiest project i have undertaken. But Will report back if i come up with a cunning plan. Off to do an oil and filter change on the tranny now. Ips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Bulletguy - 2012-09-01 2:13 PM Depends on what you are calling 'the new tranny's'? Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-02 9:11 AM The "new tranny" reference relates to the latest upgrade of the Transit Mk 7 with Euro 5 motors. Based on Ford's advertising for this Transit version, cab-seats with dual arm-rests are not standard across the range, but an option primarily targeting the motorhome market. The description is as follows: "Front-swivelling Captain's Chairs* To make your Motorhome even more practical, comfortable and flexible you can choose the option of front-swivelling Captain’s Chairs with dual armrests. These make the maximum use of space within your vehicle. *Specification may vary depending on the motorhome manufacturer and model you choose." The type of seat fitted to your Mk 5 Duetto that, besides having dual angle-adjustable arm-rests could have pneumatic lumbar support and heating, was regularly fitted to motorhomes of that era but , as far as I'm aware Ford has never offered swivelling seats as an option before. Dual arm-rest seats have been available for Mk 6/Mk 7 Transit-based motorhomes as an expensive option offered by the motorhome manufacturer (eg. Hymer, Hobby), but these have been Aguti- or Isri-branded seats not sourced from Ford's parts-bin. With regards to my own particular Duetto (Mk5 Transit), both driver and passenger seats are fitted with dual arm rests. The passenger seat only swivels....the driver seat cannot due to the handbrake location. I'm surprised that the rests are 'handed' as sitting here looking at both in my van, they appear identical. Any Transit based Camper/MH is expensive by comparison to some coachbuilts, the Duetto's in particular have a high resale price and a ready 'used' market (i've been offered £3.5k more than what I paid for mine....and that offer was from a Dealer as a cash purchase}. Quite what A/S do (apart from the obvious) on receiving a van from new for conversion, and what Ford do is not always clear. Alan at A/S would know precisely (he's like the chief historian at A/S!). There were, and are, some odd quirky things which i've discovered myself as a friend of mine also has a Duetto, though his is about three years older than mine. One example being the Leisure battery tray which is a Ford part, but LH (as fitted to all LHD Transits and also some commercial Transits). My friends Duetto is fitted with one......but mine was fitted with just a flat tray and not an original Ford one. Mine needed replacing so I set about hunting down a good used original Ford one (a new tray is over £100 and the strap and bracket another £30). Used LH Battery trays are few and far between but eventually I got one. Fitting is simple as the threaded holes are already in the wheel arch covered by rubber grommets. Other things i've mentioned previously such as electric windows are down to the original owner paying for as an 'extra' when buying new, but these are easily 'retro fitted' as the loom is already there. Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-02 9:11 AM Not sure where you've got the idea that people have been "whining" about cab-seat arm-rests. I removed the dual arm-rests from each of my Herald's cab seats and the single arm-rest from each of my Hobby's seats. The reasons for doing this are, for me, that cab-seat arm-rests are (literally) a waste of space. Lowered they obstruct the movement of my arms when I'm driving and make reaching the handbrake-lever impossible......... Quite how arm rests "obstruct the movement of my arms when I'm driving", I cannot figure out. Admittedly your van is not the same model as mine so I can only speak for myself and the Duetto. Certainly access to the handbrake when the arm rest is down is possible in the Duetto. I tend to only use my arm rests on long main road or motorway trips.....never around town or short trips. But I use the passenger seat as a lounge chair when watching TV as I find it relaxing (surely men with bulging biceps and women with big tits also relax........don't they? ;-) ) The one thing I would admit to with dual arm rests is you must remember to swivel back the rest nearest the door before exiting otherwise it could prove painful......or even snap the rest off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 ips - 2012-09-02 9:40 AM Off to do an oil and filter change on the tranny now. Ips Does she wear black fishnet stockings or sheer? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Fish net hopefully :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Bulletguy - 2012-09-02 10:38 AM 1. ...I'm surprised that the rests are 'handed' as sitting here looking at both in my van, they appear identical... 2. ...Quite how arm rests "obstruct the movement of my arms when I'm driving", I cannot figure out. Admittedly your van is not the same model as mine so I can only speak for myself and the Duetto. Certainly access to the handbrake when the arm rest is down is possible in the Duetto... 1. Plainly arm-rests must be 'handed' - one would hardly expect a hinged arm-rest that's fitted to the left-hand side of the back of a seat to fit on the seat-back's right-hand side (and vice versa). But that's simultaneously obvious and irrelevant in this instance as it's the seat-backs that matter not the arm-rests. As I said earlier "I think it's odd for Ford to 'hand' the seat backs so that there's a UK-nearside seat back that can only accept an arm-rest on its right-hand side, or a UK-offside seat back that can only accept an arm-rest on its left-hand side, but that's what the Transit forum's advice is..." 2. A direct comparison between a Transit Mk 5-based Duetto with a motorhome based on a Transit Mk 6/Mk 7 won't necessarily be valid. As I (ho-hum - again) said earlier in this thread "...if the motorhome has its handbrake in the driver's cab-door footwell and/or its gear-lever floor-mounted (both of which my Hobby has) lowered arm-rests will inevitably obstruct access to one or both driver controls.." ips's Mk 7-based Chausson has a dashboard-mounted gear-shift, so a lowered arm-rest on the inner edge of a cab-seat's back should not inhibit his gear-changing. However, I suspect that his Chausson has its handbrake in the driver's cab-door footwell and, if that's the case, an arm-rest fitted to the outer edge of the driver's seat-back will obstruct access to the handbrake (which is already a beggar to operate) when the arm-rest has been lowered. (Incidentally, what prompted the reference to "women with big tits"?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-02 12:15 PM 1. Plainly arm-rests must be 'handed' - one would hardly expect a hinged arm-rest that's fitted to the left-hand side of the back of a seat to fit on the seat-back's right-hand side (and vice versa). But that's simultaneously obvious and irrelevant in this instance as it's the seat-backs that matter not the arm-rests. As I said earlier "I think it's odd for Ford to 'hand' the seat backs so that there's a UK-nearside seat back that can only accept an arm-rest on its right-hand side, or a UK-offside seat back that can only accept an arm-rest on its left-hand side, but that's what the Transit forum's advice is..." I've never actually fully removed either of my arm rests but just tightened the torx bolt on one rest (passenger seat) which for some reason tends to work loose now 'n then. Looking at each of my rests, both sides appear identical and obviously the torx bolt goes straight through and locates in the seat frame. So I would assume it possible to fit my rests on either side of the seat. Never needed to find out so cannot be 100%. As for 'handed' seat backs, mine are identical, even to the point of having the recliner knob on the same side. Derek Uzzell - 2012-08-31 8:02 AM (Incidentally, what prompted the reference to "women with big tits"?) Derek Uzzell - 2012-08-31 8:02 AM Having never seen my (similarly svelte) wife couch-potato-ing using a chair's arms to counteract the unyielding pull of gravity on her upper extremities..... ;-) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Bulletguy - 2012-09-02 5:05 PM I've never actually fully removed either of my arm rests but just tightened the torx bolt on one rest (passenger seat) which for some reason tends to work loose now 'n then. Looking at each of my rests, both sides appear identical and obviously the torx bolt goes straight through and locates in the seat frame. So I would assume it possible to fit my rests on either side of the seat. Never needed to find out so cannot be 100%. If I remember correctly with my Herald, its cab-seat arm-rests each had a substantial 'axle' that entered the side of the seat. This axle was held rigidly in place by a bolt (I seem to recall it was an Allen-cap-screw not Torx-type) that needed to be removed before the axle could be withdrawn from the seat back. The attachment method wasn't obvious as the bolt was covered by the seat's upholstery and I think I eventually asked TEK-Seating (who retrimmed the Ford seats for Herald) how to get the arm-rests off. You may have different seats on your Duetto but, with my Herald's "Captain's Chairs" a 'right side' arm-rest could not be fitted to the left side of the seat back. Like your Duetto, the backs of the driver and passenger cab-seats were the same, but arm-rests themselves were handed. Having never seen my (similarly svelte) wife couch-potato-ing using a chair's arms to counteract the unyielding pull of gravity on her upper extremities..... "Svelte" implies slender or graceful in figure or outline. Perhaps in Cheshire "upper extremities" is a local expression for bazooms (and, of course, I should have more accurately said "upper limbs"). The thought of a lady relaxing her busty substances on a motorhome's cab-seat's lowered arm-rests s not one I'm minded to pursue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 IPS Found exactly what you are after on the Transit Owners Forum though from the date i'm guessing it's sold by now....but this is where i'd advise you to search. http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=112826 Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-02 6:26 PM If I remember correctly with my Herald, its cab-seat arm-rests each had a substantial 'axle' that entered the side of the seat. This axle was held rigidly in place by a bolt (I seem to recall it was an Allen-cap-screw not Torx-type) that needed to be removed before the axle could be withdrawn from the seat back. The attachment method wasn't obvious as the bolt was covered by the seat's upholstery and I think I eventually asked TEK-Seating (who retrimmed the Ford seats for Herald) how to get the arm-rests off. You may have different seats on your Duetto but, with my Herald's "Captain's Chairs" a 'right side' arm-rest could not be fitted to the left side of the seat back. Like your Duetto, the backs of the driver and passenger cab-seats were the same, but arm-rests themselves were handed. Would appear to be as mine are definitely secured by a torx headed bolt. You have to remove a plastic cap then 'fiddle around' a bit with a torx driver to feel for the bolt head as it's set inside the arm and cannot be seen. Having never seen my (similarly svelte) wife couch-potato-ing using a chair's arms to counteract the unyielding pull of gravity on her upper extremities..... Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-02 6:26 PM "Svelte" implies slender or graceful in figure or outline. Perhaps in Cheshire "upper extremities" is a local expression for bazooms (and, of course, I should have more accurately said "upper limbs"). The thought of a lady relaxing her busty substances on a motorhome's cab-seat's lowered arm-rests s not one I'm minded to pursue. Not in Cheshire Derek or for that matter anywhere. "Upper extremities" of a human body to me mean precisely that........from the midriff or chest up as opposed to the body in it entirety. But i'm sure your description will endear you to your loved one!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 ips - have you checked to make sure that even if you could attach arm-rests to your Transit seats that they will be usable and not get 'stuck' up on the moulded arm rests on the doors ... :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 Mel Yes an armrest would fit on the RH side. Had a bit of a poke around yesterday and defo no mounting point as there is on the LH side so it either has a bracket thing that clamps onto the frame or there is a bracket welded on either way it does not look easy. Pic on the link provided by bullet is the exact same seat as mine so cant understand why ford did not do one seat frame for all and just attached one, two or no armrests as required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Bulletguy - 2012-09-02 7:57 PM IPS Found exactly what you are after on the Transit Owners Forum though from the date i'm guessing it's sold by now....but this is where i'd advise you to search. http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=112826 The seats that were being advertised on the Ford Transit Forum (FTF) were said to have come from a Transit Mk 5, whereas ips's motorhome is Transit Mk 7-based. I'm assuming that the single-person seat in the FTF photos is the type of dual armrest seats you have in your 2000 Mk 5 based Duetto, but it's not the same as the dual armrest seats that were fitted to my 1996-built Transit Mk 5-based Herald or the single armrest seats fitted to my 2005 Mk 6-based Hobby. However, the design of the armrests on the seat in the FTF photos does match the armrests on my Hobby. Detaching the armrest from the seat-back involves first removing the blanking cap from the outer side of the armrest. This exposes a 'tube' that runs from one side of the armrest to the other. Undoing a short Torx-headed bolt at the far end of the tube permits the armrest to be removed. The armrests are handed so that a 'left side' armrest cannot be directly transferred to the 'right' side of the seat-back. This should be self-evident as, if one moved a 'left side' armrest to the right side of the seat-back, it would be upside-down and hinge downwards not upwards. The 'bodies' of my Hobby's armrests are identical: it's actually the armrests' individual attachment fitting (ie, the assembly that hinges and through which the Torx-bolt passes) that differs between a 'left side' and 'right side' armrest. It was always known that Mk 5 Transits could have dual armrest seats and the FTF photos strongly suggest that the armrests fitted to those seats are the same as the single armrests fitted to subsequent Transit Mk 6/Mk 7 seats, and probably use the same attachment method. But that's not really going to help ips unless a) Mk 5 seats will fit Mk 7 Transits and b) he is prepared to replace his present Mk 7 seats with seats from a Mk 5. There's never been a problem over the availability of suitable armrests, as individual 'left side' and 'right side' armrests are standard fitment on the inner sides of Mk 6/Mk 7 cab-seat backs. The question has always been whether those armrests could be attached to the outer sides of the seat-backs of Mk 6/Mk 7 seats that carry a single armrest as standard. According to the Ford Transit Forum they cannot, simply because the outer sides of Transit Mk 6/Mk 7 seat backs do not have armrest attachment points - basically that they don't have anything on that side to screw the Torx bolt into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-03 10:17 AM The seats that were being advertised on the Ford Transit Forum (FTF) were said to have come from a Transit Mk 5, whereas ips's motorhome is Transit Mk 7-based. Yes I knew that Derek though IPS has already stated the pic of the seat I posted is the exact same seat as he has in his cab.....but obviously only with one arm rest. His best option is to go for a matching pair of Captains seats which have dual arm rests, plus mounting base plates (as his may be different). Upholstery condition and colour being of secondary importance as he can always get the re-upholstered. Obviously a bonus if they are in decent order, but even one single Captains seat doesn't come cheap. Ebay or scouring the Transit Owners Forum is by far his best bet. Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-03 10:17 AM I'm assuming that the single-person seat in the FTF photos is the type of dual armrest seats you have in your 2000 Mk 5 based Duetto, but it's not the same as the dual armrest seats that were fitted to my 1996-built Transit Mk 5-based Herald or the single armrest seats fitted to my 2005 Mk 6-based Hobby. To avoid any further confusion i've just taken a photo of my passenger seat with both rests down (normally they are up unless i'm sitting watching telly). This seat is common to all Mk5 Transit base Duettos. http://i46.tinypic.com/beqf4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 These are links to photos relating to respectively 2010 and 2012 Chausson Flash 04 motorhomes. http://www.blackcountrycaravans.co.uk/stocklist.aspx?id=486 http://www.highbridgecaravans.co.uk/showAllImages.php?PATH=images/motorhomes/new/643/400/ They show the single-armrest cab seats of the 2010 model and the dual-armrest cab seats of the (current) 2012 version. In an earlier posting you said "I've never actually fully removed either of my arm rests but just tightened the torx bolt..." I have removed this type of armrest, so I'm fully aware of the design of the attachment/hinge assembly, how this is fitted to the armrest and how the assembly is mounted on the seat back's frame. Your latest posting says "His best option is to go for a matching pair of Captains seats which have dual arm rests, plus mounting base plates (as his may be different)." I'm guessing from this that you are unfamiliar with the cab-seats of post-Mk 5 Transits. Although the cab-seat (with separate head-rest) of a Mk 7 Transit - ips's Chausson is a 2009 model - is visually similar to a Mk 5's, the seat-pedestal on which the seat is mounted is quite different, as is the seat-height and squab-angle adjustment mechanism. It might be possible to put a Mk 5 dual-armrest seat on the passenger side of a Mk 7, but I believe a Mk 5 seat would be unsuitable to install on a Mk 7's driver's side. Realistically, ips is unlikely to opt to replace his 3-year-old single-armrest Transit Mk 7 seats with Mk 5 dual-armrest seats that will be at least 12 years old just to gain the second armrest that he finds attractive. Similarly, I very much doubt that he wants second armrests sufficiently to pay for replacing his current seats with the dual-armrest seats available for 2011-onwards Transit Mk 7-based motorhomes. I think Chausson (like Hobby) uses covers on their cab seats, rather than follow the Auto-Sleepers policy of re-upholstering the original Ford seats. If that's so, then some careful keyhole-surgery exploration with the cover temporarily removed from one of his Flash 04's seat-backs should confirm what's been advised on the Ford Transit Forum and elsewhere http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forum-printtopic-1-68811-0-0-asc-viewresult-1.html http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-103373-ford-transit-armrests.html Despite it seeming peculiar that Transit Mk 5s had dual-armrest seats, whereas Mk 7s with seats that look much the same can only have one armest, all the evidence points to there being only one armrest mounting-point on pre-2011 Transit Mk 6/Mk 7 seats. One MHF participant intended to explore adding a mounting-point to his Transit's seat to accept the Ford armrest, but I don't know what the result was. Given the design of the armrest's attachment/hinge assembly, adding a mounting-point to a seat's frame may involve more than just welding on a captive nut and, I suspect, the lack of a follow-up posting meant that a decision was made not to proceed further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-03 3:16 PM These are links to photos relating to respectively 2010 and 2012 Chausson Flash 04 motorhomes. http://www.blackcountrycaravans.co.uk/stocklist.aspx?id=486 http://www.highbridgecaravans.co.uk/showAllImages.php?PATH=images/motorhomes/new/643/400/ They show the single-armrest cab seats of the 2010 model and the dual-armrest cab seats of the (current) 2012 version. In an earlier posting you said "I've never actually fully removed either of my arm rests but just tightened the torx bolt..." I have removed this type of armrest, so I'm fully aware of the design of the attachment/hinge assembly, how this is fitted to the armrest and how the assembly is mounted on the seat back's frame. Your latest posting says "His best option is to go for a matching pair of Captains seats which have dual arm rests, plus mounting base plates (as his may be different)." I'm guessing from this that you are unfamiliar with the cab-seats of post-Mk 5 Transits. Although the cab-seat (with separate head-rest) of a Mk 7 Transit - ips's Chausson is a 2009 model - is visually similar to a Mk 5's, the seat-pedestal on which the seat is mounted is quite different, as is the seat-height and squab-angle adjustment mechanism. It might be possible to put a Mk 5 dual-armrest seat on the passenger side of a Mk 7, but I believe a Mk 5 seat would be unsuitable to install on a Mk 7's driver's side. Realistically, ips is unlikely to opt to replace his 3-year-old single-armrest Transit Mk 7 seats with Mk 5 dual-armrest seats that will be at least 12 years old just to gain the second armrest that he finds attractive. Similarly, I very much doubt that he wants second armrests sufficiently to pay for replacing his current seats with the dual-armrest seats available for 2011-onwards Transit Mk 7-based motorhomes. I think Chausson (like Hobby) uses covers on their cab seats, rather than follow the Auto-Sleepers policy of re-upholstering the original Ford seats. If that's so, then some careful keyhole-surgery exploration with the cover temporarily removed from one of his Flash 04's seat-backs should confirm what's been advised on the Ford Transit Forum and elsewhere http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forum-printtopic-1-68811-0-0-asc-viewresult-1.html http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-103373-ford-transit-armrests.html Despite it seeming peculiar that Transit Mk 5s had dual-armrest seats, whereas Mk 7s with seats that look much the same can only have one armest, all the evidence points to there being only one armrest mounting-point on pre-2011 Transit Mk 6/Mk 7 seats. One MHF participant intended to explore adding a mounting-point to his Transit's seat to accept the Ford armrest, but I don't know what the result was. Given the design of the armrest's attachment/hinge assembly, adding a mounting-point to a seat's frame may involve more than just welding on a captive nut and, I suspect, the lack of a follow-up posting meant that a decision was made not to proceed further. I was trying to help the guy.....not build 'brick walls', write an essay or enter into a ping pong match of who said what etc. When changing anything from factory standard, compromises sometimes have to be made as well as modifications and i'm sure ips realises this. As for age of seats it bears little relevance at all......the seats in my 12 year old Duetto are like new where the seats in my eight year old car are scuffed and well worn. Many Camper/MH seats have hardly been sat on. The 'mod' is achievable but if money is no problem then just drive into the nearest Ford Dealer who will not only do the job for him, but also relieve him of a four figure sum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 Wish i had not said anything now :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 If it helps, there are definitely no mounting points for a second armrest on our 2007 Mk 7 transit. Similar vintage, I think, to ips's. I have, as said above, removed both the single armrests from ours. The armrest mounting is carried on a plate that projects forward from, and is presumed welded to, the backrest perimeter frame. Subtle, it is not, and is easily felt through the padding and fabric. On the other side of the backrest, in the corresponding position, there is nothing detectable other than the backrest frame itself. In the end, I was driven to go and feel around the seat for what I already knew was not there, and is is conclusively not present on our van. The seats are standard Ford issue, as Derek's, with standard Ford issue upholstery, over-upholstered by Hobby. Whether there are/were options offered by Ford for the number of armrests I do not know, but very much doubt trying to fit an additional armrest to a crash tested seat would be that wise, apart from the amount of work involved in removing and re-fitting the Ford backrest covers and upholstery pad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 ips - 2012-09-03 5:04 PM Wish i had not said anything now :-D You're gonna have to get another van now or remain arm-less!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Brown Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I actually like to have two armrests. I have a 54 Ducato and if anybody has removed both armrests I would be interested in obtaining them. I am looking for one left and one right. Mine are mounted on a plate which is attached to the seat with two bolts through a metal bracket. If anyone has any we can exchange photos to see if they are suitable .Many thanks Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-09-03 7:18 PM If it helps, there are definitely no mounting points for a second armrest on our 2007 Mk 7 transit. Similar vintage, I think, to ips's. I have, as said above, removed both the single armrests from ours. The armrest mounting is carried on a plate that projects forward from, and is presumed welded to, the backrest perimeter frame. Subtle, it is not, and is easily felt through the padding and fabric. On the other side of the backrest, in the corresponding position, there is nothing detectable other than the backrest frame itself. In the end, I was driven to go and feel around the seat for what I already knew was not there, and is is conclusively not present on our van. The seats are standard Ford issue, as Derek's, with standard Ford issue upholstery, over-upholstered by Hobby. Whether there are/were options offered by Ford for the number of armrests I do not know, but very much doubt trying to fit an additional armrest to a crash tested seat would be that wise, apart from the amount of work involved in removing and re-fitting the Ford backrest covers and upholstery pad. When the Transit Mk 6 was first marketed in 2000 the driver's seat had a high one-piece back with no separate head-rest, and a single armrest. This is the type of seat fitted to my 2005 Mk 6-based Hobby and (I believe) to your 2007 Mk 7-based "Van". I recall reading (probably around 2007) that Ford was discontinuing that seat design for Transit and standardising on a seat with a separate head-rest. This revised design was similar to the seat in Bulletguy's 2000 Mk 5 Duetto, but with a single armrest rather than a pair. There are photos of this seat design on page 151 of MMM August 2012's piece on a 2008 Hymer C662CL (that also includes the owners' comment that they would have liked two armrests on both seats) and ips has confirmed that his Chausson has that seat type. However, Ford plainly did not drop the high-back seat design completely as it continued to be used by Hobby in their Transit-based motorhomes up to and including 2013 models. There is a difference though, as, up to and including Hobby's 2011 model-year each cab-seat had just one armrest, while from the 2012 model-year onwards each seat had two. I don't think advice elsewhere that a 2nd armrest cannot be fitted to a single-armrest Transit seat has ever differentiated by vehicle age or seat design. I suspect that seats capable of carrying dual armrests only began to be fitted to Mk 7 Transits coincidental with the Euro 5 revisions, but there remains the possibility that ips's 2009 low-back seats may be able to mount a 2nd armrest. Personally, I don't think ips's 2009 seats will have 2nd-armrest mounting-points, but, as you've highlighted, it's easy enough to identify by feel whether a single-armrest seat carries a mounting-point for a 2nd armrest, so it would be commonsense for ips to make absolutely certain whether the extra mounting-points are there or not. No 2nd mounting-points would mean ips following Bulletguy's suggestions that he replace his Chausson's present single-armrest seats with dual-armrest ones, or ips exploring whether the existing seats can be modified somehow to allow an extra armest to be fitted to each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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