Guest JudgeMental Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Indeed.......At least you listened to me Mel and bought the right layout, took some convincing mind! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I'm fascinated by the way people spend thousands changing their vans from PVC to Coachbuilt to PVC to Coachbuilt, even my old man changed what I thought was a cracking Merc A class because the tv was to high *-)......... We are more than happy with our old banger, and the layout is in my mind the perfect compromise for the job it was designed for ;-) ie......A economical vehicle to run and maintain, able to take us in comfort to the places we wish to visit, without the need of anything other than our legs to do the last bit ;-) Which is why I'm some what surprised that no one now makes a similar SWB, Overcab coachbuilt layout :-S As we have a permanent made up bed, with proper sheet and duvet, none of this sleeping bag faf, I had enough of that in the navy ;-)..............the swb is a real boon when in a tight situation and has enabled me to get to places where I think afterwards........how the hell did I get here 8-).... Height barriers don't bother us as they're usually in places where I wouldn't want to go ;-) But hey its your money...............we inherited ours from someone who had done the journey your all on ;-) Although I did buy a fiat Amigo...........so anything after that was a palace :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Henry sure you have made the right decision, even it may cost you a bit. In the dim and distant past we owned a PVC, an Autosleeper Harmony moving from an Elddis 270 CB. We too were tempted by idea of a "multipurpose" van but found space too restrictive and that wide door useless, no worse than useless Seems to us that some,but not all, who change to PVC really in their hearts know that decision is wrong but convince themselves that they have made right one and then try to persuade others. Clearly for a few like Mel B a PVC is the right van for them but as Henry has found out for many it is not. Thanks again Henry for sharing your experiences and lets hope it helps others in making the correct choice for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-10-11 2:39 PM I like sleeping with my wife and have no desire for single beds, this wide French bed answers our needs. I bet it does Eddie. Nudge nudge wink wink. Know what I mean eh. Sorry Eddie couldn't resist. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Brown Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Rupert, I am delighted you have made a decision. What I find irksome is the fact you have come on here and outlined your mistake in an effort to perhaps prevent others making the same mistake and you have been cut to bits by some who feel you should perhaps have exercised 'due diligence' prior to your purchase. Hindsight is a wonderful tool and I would welcome the ability to go into a shop and buy a handful of hindsight but unfortunately it seems to be sold out. We all have what we have and can say 'if only it had X' Has anybody got the perfect van? I don't but I am satisfied with it and will not be changing it. It is a dream to drive, not at all like a garden shed on wheels. I get a reasonable return in MPG. We have a fixed bed and sufficient room for US. You note that the van is good for US and that is the crux, Rupert wants something different and should not be ridiculed for saying so on this forum. I have found this forum extremely useful and I am sure many others have also. That is because users come on and outline problems they have in the hope others can learn from their mistakes. I have great difficulty with the offensive banter which is sometimes committed to print. Better to let people think you are a fool than go to print and prove it. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Robinhood - 2012-10-11 5:12 PM but I didn't like the shower arrangement (innovative though it is), Seems the shower is a marmite thing, when we first ordered the van they had the 'mk1' shower with small round shower tray and chute and the sliding doors 'overlapped', this was something we decided we would have to live with as the rest of layout was what we wanted, but due to delay in getting van we ended up with the 'mk2' shower, this is a great improvement and works remarkably well. When I saw on website they had changed shower I was thinking it must be better, and when we picked up van we decided it was an improvement, but after a couple of trips we came to the conclusion thats it's proboly the best bathroom arrangement we've ever used in a van and that includes RV's, ok it has it's downside like blocking fridge when in use, but overall I wouldn't want any other bathroom I've ever used. What most people proboly don't realise, is that except when actualy showering we only use one sliding door, what this means in practice is that whilst one person is in dinette having all blinds open having coffee or breakfast enjoying the view, the other has entire rear of van as a washroom/changing room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 robertandjean - 2012-10-11 8:48 PM Seems to us that some,but not all, who change to PVC really in their hearts know that decision is wrong but convince themselves that they have made right one and then try to persuade others. Clearly for a few like Mel B a PVC is the right van for them but as Henry has found out for many it is not. . Blimey.....I have had my doubts about you 2 for a while, What a bitter and infantile accusation. Who would be so nasty as to KNOW they have made a mistake and try and convince others to do likewise..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-10-11 10:08 PM robertandjean - 2012-10-11 8:48 PM Seems to us that some,but not all, who change to PVC really in their hearts know that decision is wrong but convince themselves that they have made right one and then try to persuade others. Clearly for a few like Mel B a PVC is the right van for them but as Henry has found out for many it is not. . Blimey.....I have had my doubts about you 2 for a while, What a bitter and infantile accusation. Who would be so nasty as to KNOW they have made a mistake and try and convince others to do likewise..... Eddie, has someone stood on your corn or summut! *-) I don't think that the way you have taken it is the way it was meant, I read it to mean: "that they have convinced themselves that they have made [the] right [decision]" ie they have become blinkered for whatever reason, probably because they don't want to admit they got it wrong and/or have no choice but to get on with it as not everyone can afford to change vans and therefore are just looking at the 'positives' of their van, rather than dwelling on the 'negatives'. "and then try to persuade others" ... not maliciously, but simply because they have to some extent brainwashed themselves that it WAS the right decision ... :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Mel - it is called Cognitive Dissonance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Eddie, just a reminder that when you had your Euramobil coachbuilt you were very, very, very glowing about how brilliant it was ... that was until you changed it (and found it had damp!) for your van conversion and now are of the opposite view ... 8-) There is NOTHING wrong with this, but it just shows that views change depending on needs and/or experiences. :-) Edited for a typo! *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Brambles - 2012-10-11 11:11 PM Mel - it is called Cognitive Dissonance. Thanks Brambles ... I knew there'd be a 'term' for what I was trying to say!!! :D http://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Well in that case I withdraw that outburst. The euramobil was a good find! fully winterised with double floor ,underfloor heating, and still a good payload with 4 at 3500kg. I was well chuffed as a diabetic restricted to 3500kg , had all but given up on trying to find that in a high top family van.....that I had to go to Germany to find it a crying shame..... That being said I only did this for a growing family and it was a mistake in retrospect as have always preferred smaller vans, demountables etc.....not really a motorhomer at heart I guess......should have just continued with kids sleeping in tent which they prefer anyway.....this forum made me do it......equilibrium now restored, back to the sort of camping we prefer So I guess I am the polar opposite of Henry :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 Tracker - 2012-10-11 10:36 AM Sorry to hear of your issues Henry and much appreciate your candour. Not many will admit on open forum that they have got it wrong although plenty, me included, have. The issues that bother you are the same ones that bother us and so far I don't quite see the positives outweighing the negatives for us either, so we are sticking with our coachbuilt Cheyenne 630LB for the time being and resolving the only main issue which is the payload because with that sorted the traditional UK type layout works well for us - even if it is a tail heavy layout. Can you remind us again what your van is please as short term memory is not my strong point these days! Good luck Henry, and I hope that you find what you want at a less than eye watering cost - any models in mind so far? Thanks Rich, it is an Autosleeper Stratford. Not sure yet what we will buy but one of our favorites is your namesake the Autotrail Tracker EKS but the downside is payload, not sure it is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-10-11 10:45 AM Pretty astonishing......All this could have been learnt with due rigour, sitting in a few vans for a while at shows and seriously weighing things up *-) Eddie, we did all this and indeed weighed it up for at least six months, talked about it on here enough. Still got it wrong. Please do not think I am having a go at people who bought and love panel vans just did not work for us. I am sure it is how people use vans wether they suit or not, you are going to buy another so obviously they suit you. I have a neighbour who has gone the other way, switched to a C/B last year and has just ordered an Adria twin because he cannot get on with the size of the C/B despite driving it for a year. We are all differant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 As for new vans Weigh them.... make it part of contract when ordering and add weight of specific extras. If there is not a decent payload look elsewhere. Edit: I know you like Scotland and the like out of season and was surprised when you went for a panel van to be honest, lets hope it don't cost you to much. But be careful what you buy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-10-12 10:13 AM one of our favorites is your namesake the Autotrail Tracker EKS but the downside is payload, not sure it is enough. I'm not surprised you struggled with the Stratford Henry - at 5.4 mtrs it was probably a step down too far from a coachbuilt? We looked at one (and a Symbol) and discounted them both as just too compact after a coachbuilt for so many years. We still feel that a 6.00 mtr PVC will suffice for us one day but not quite ready yet we think! But when we do an Autosleeper Warwick Duo is our favourite (at the moment)! We had a 2006 Tracker EKS on the older chassis and payload was always an issue and the new ones are even worse with a miserly payload without a suspension (and possibly tyre) upgrade and replating at a cost of around £1200.. We only sold our Tracker due to the payload and the awful ride creating so much banging thudding and crashing on poor surfaces and when we bought the Starlet on the Alko chassis it was wonderful. In my view the new Fiat camper chassis is better than the old Ducato standard chassis but not as good as the Alko. That said fitting semi air suspension certainly closes the gap somewhat on ride and habitation noise. Personally I would not touch a van that starts with a stated payload of 285 kg before any extras and I doubt if you weighed it empty you would even have 285 kg due to 'manufacturing tolerances' of up to 5%. But then I always was a bit cynical!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-10-11 2:39 PM Dear me Robin......please dont try to second guess me its offensive I was prepared for the compromise as already explained and have managed OK with it, certainly would not have a CB just for a garage. I like sleeping with my wife and have no desire for single beds, this wide French bed answers our needs better we think. the bed was a compromise she accepts, I am not silly. Now two NEW vans (Las Strada and Possll) available with better layout, also the ability to accommodate bikes which is unusual in a panel van. Its not going to cost me that much to change (pension lump sum due) and still only considering it at this stage....doing the homework? due diligence? Will be my last van I would think.... We downsized because kids no longer travel with us much, they have joined us in Italy and Croatia these last 2 years. we keep a pop up tent fixed to bed base for these occasions..... I see no similarities between having a van for a few months and spending hardly any time in it, if anything H needs to think less and get away into the sun more.... My situation different, 3 long European holidays and happy with choice...your talking bo$$ock's Eddie I have no wish to start a war here but you must admit that everything you do people do no agree with you seem to take as a personal affront. As to my getting away more, while it is true not so much this year, for the past six years we have spent on average six month a year away which is I would suggest is a lot more than most.. Last year we had two months skiing, three months in europe over two trips and three weeks in the UK, not to bad I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-10-12 10:25 AM As for new vans Weigh them.... make it part of contract when ordering and add weight of specific extras. If there is not a decent payload look elsewhere. Edit: I know you like Scotland and the like out of season and was surprised when you went for a panel van to be honest, lets hope it don't cost you to much. But be careful what you buy! Oh I will Eddie. Would point out I also like the sun and only months we steer clear of in europe are mid July/August, to busy. We love Provence and southern alps especially so please do not get the impression we prefer cold and damp, no one does. We also prefer to live outside but it is not always possible so do spend some time as I state especially early and late in the year inside. This does not mean we do this all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 Tracker - 2012-10-12 10:35 AM rupert123 - 2012-10-12 10:13 AM one of our favorites is your namesake the Autotrail Tracker EKS but the downside is payload, not sure it is enough. I'm not surprised you struggled with the Stratford Henry - at 5.4 mtrs it was probably a step down too far from a coachbuilt? We looked at one (and a Symbol) and discounted them both as just too compact after a coachbuilt for so many years. We still feel that a 6.00 mtr PVC will suffice for us one day but not quite ready yet we think! But when we do an Autosleeper Warwick Duo is our favourite (at the moment)! !! This is the point Eddie made, and while true, the length did not bother us. The only differance between the Stratford and the Warwick is 60cm in length of the rear seats, everything else is the same. Bit less storage but not so much and bit less seating area. No even a 6mtr PVC would still have, for us, the same problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-10-12 10:13 AM Thanks Rich, it is an Autosleeper Stratford. Not sure yet what we will buy but one of our favorites is your namesake the Autotrail Tracker EKS but the downside is payload, not sure it is enough. .....the payload issue is largely why I ended up with a coachbuilt 'van on the Ford Transit base, something I have no regrets about to date. I couldn't live with the quoted payload of, say, the Tracker, and wanted to stay below the 3500kg break point to avoid all the toll, emissions zone and other constraints that were beginning to hit the use of our previous (3850kg) 'van. I appreciate the Transit may not suit you, but given the nature of your search and proposed use, payload obviously should be an issue, so it's worthwhile giving a bit of detail. Almost across the board CBs on the Transit seemed to have a significantly higher payload (in the 600-800kg range, even after all the usual allowances) than those based on the X250. In doing further research there was an additional advantage, (particularly for "garage" models or those with a rear rack) in that the rear axle is rated as standard at 2250kg (considerably higher than the standard x250). There were, of course, a limited number of smaller coachbuilt models on this chassis, and the number seems to have declined even more awaiting the release of the new Transit, but they are still available (particularly Hymer and Hobby models) in a variety of lengths from 6m, with differing wheelbases and sleeping arrangements. Of course, there are still compromises, accepting a "Euro-dinette" and fixed bed of some kind is probably a necessity, as is "wrong handing" of the habitation door. (neither a problem for us given we've been used to that in previous 'vans, and a fixed bed(s) was a plus point). Otherwise, I managed to tick all (well, to be honest, most of) my boxes - the Hobby and Hymer versions of the "van" range are quite similar, but the Hobby was better spec'ed for my purposes, including the best-integrated "full-size" oven that I've had yet in any 'van. (and yes - I do like and use an oven ;-) ). Something to consider if payload is a main criterion - though as highlighted, compromise elsewhere may be required (you might even be able to quite legally get your desired scooter in the garage of the appropriate model(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The new transit 2013 may be one to watch ....While I prefer the fiat to drive, have never understood why the Fiat rear axle so mediocre. I could never overload my Ford based CB rear axle. Both Tracker & H nearer to 70 then 21 I believe, Moi a veritable spring chicken in comparison:-S So a 3500kg van probably a better bet. I would suggest one with an assured circa 400kg payload, so needs to be 3100kg'ish with extras fitted...I managed this, so I am sure they are available if you look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-10-12 11:09 AM The only difference between the Stratford and the Warwick is 60cm in length of the rear seats, everything else is the same. Bit less storage but not so much and bit less seating area. No even a 6mtr PVC would still have, for us, the same problems. Whilst 60 cm longer might not sound much in isolation, it translates into two 60cm longer beds/sofas with underbed lockers each with an extra 60 cms length plus two more overhead lockers and that adds up to a lot more storage space in total - plus an extra 60 cms of leg room too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Rich - have you seen a Warwick in the flesh yet? It only has the 'glass' side windows (no double-glazing) and the wardrobe/washroom across the sliding door, rather than on the opposite side as you get on other models, to my mind makes it feel really claustrophobic and oppressive .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Yes Mel we've looked at a couple of Warwick Duos and I agree that they are quite gloomy inside and I too, despite what A/S claim am unimpressed with dark, single glazed windows. Lack of kitchen worktop is also an issue as is (in my view) a 20 litre gas tank which translates to about 8 kgs of gas with no provision for any backup supply. The upside of the large washroom is that it is usable and the beds/seats are very comfortable - but they would benefit from losing that stupid knee roll which does nothing for sleeping comfort. The 'flying' wardrobe can either be seen as an eyesore or as a good way of getting more storage without losing bed length depending on your point of view The main competitor is the A/C Rhythm / Swift Mondial which are the same van but for the badges and are far more light and airy with better kitchen workspace but have a poorly designed and ungenerous washroom as well as rock hard beds! Bed cushions can be replaced with softer - washrooms can't be made larger! Offerings from the likes of Vantage, Devon and Wildax etc are at least as good if not better but not so easy to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Rich, funnily enough two and a half years ago when we bought the Chausson we actually seriously considered a Mondial but it didn't have enough storage space for us with our canoes etc. Whilst our Accent has a 'small' washroom it meets our needs as we're not ones for showering every day when away. I suppose it depends on what you want but if we want more room, we can simply leave the sliding door open (the one on the washroom silly not the camper one! :$ *-) ) and hang up a couple of other shower curtains across each end of the aisle to create a larger changing area (I have these extra curtains with me anyway as we use them when getting changed when going out in the canoes). I know that your current van has a separate show and obviously we don't have that but I like having the washbasin in the shower 'cubicle' area that we create with the curtain (makes shaving legs easier!!! :D ). As for the beds being rock hard, the seating in ours is very comfy, not hard at all, so I wonder if the Autocruise ones are better in that regard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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