Willum Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Has anyone with an Alde wet heating system had this problem? A perfectly functioning system sometimes - not always - tripping off as soon as it is switched to full electric power (3kW) mode? It doesn't make any difference, on site, or at home - where I KNOW the supply is sound - mine functions perfectly on gas and up to 2kW, then sometimes trips if switched to full power. I've chased this around for about a year now. I've got a fault finding chart and a multimeter but the trouble is, when I switch it off, then on again as I start checking various parts for functionality, it starts working again, giving no clue as to which bit is faulty. Dohhhhh :'( :'( :'( :'( Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnerontheroad Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hi and welcome, Give this man a call he use to work for Alde for many years and is who the dealers ring for info. http://www.grahamcutmoreengineering.co.uk/# Good luck Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willum Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 johnnerontheroad - 2012-11-04 9:18 PM Hi and welcome, Give this man a call he use to work for Alde for many years and is who the dealers ring for info. http://www.grahamcutmoreengineering.co.uk/# Good luck Dave Many thanks. :-D I'll give him a ring in the morning Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 If it keeps switching off at 3kw power suggest you change the circuit breaker. After a number of trip outs they tend to become weaker and will not carry the high load. From what you say it's Ok at 2kw so this may be the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willum Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 Nice thought and if only :-S ................... Afraid it's not the cb. That has never tripped - I checked Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 The electric elements in the Alde unit are 1KW and 2KW. You have confirmed that both work and do not trip the system. So its not an earth fault. By trip do you mean the vans RCD trips or just the Alde system switching off? I suspect a bad electrical connection somewhere. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnerontheroad Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Clive thats a picture of the Alde 3000 with 2k the one Will is on about is the new Alde 3010 with 3k. You may still be right about the reason for the tripping. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 It sounds like an over temperature cut-out or some other form of self protection which resets when the heater is turned off and back on. And obviously only being tripped when on full 3 kW power. What form of over heat protection do these heaters have? Keith. Edit, On this diagram of the 3010 Link there is mention of a 'Thermal Fuse' on the PCB. Does anyone know if this is auto-resetting? Try improving the airflow around the heater case to prevent it tripping out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 As has been said, a bit more information about which Alde model is involved. Also what year the van is. It should be noted that not every Alde 3000 is fitted with 3 Kw capability. Some only had a 1 Kw element backed up with a second 1 Kw element (instead of the 2 Kw). It can be verified by the code number on the boiler. The OP seems at a loss and long distance fault finding with only sketchy details is impossible. Graham Cutmore will quickly sort it out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willum Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 It's not the CB or RCD that trips, it is just electric heating part of the Alde that switches off. The heating and hot water systems still seem to work OK on gas and the circulating pump still works. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Dodgy thermostat?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Over temperature cut-out as I said earlier! Improve the cooling around the case and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willum Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 Apologies, I must get a bit more detail on my profile to make everyone's life a bit easier. There is plenty of ventilation round the unit. The system is fitted to a 2003 Burstner A747-2. It is marked as a Compact 3000 9487B and 3150 Watts. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 For the record, Alde's Compact 3000 appliance was always available with a nominal 3kW 230V output. The wattage of the heating elements were 1050W or 2100W, so the nominal 2kW Compact 3000 version (with 2 x 1050W elements) had a 2100W 230V output, while the nominal 3kW version (1 x 1050W element + 1 x 2100W element) had a 3150W 230V output. (In fact, Clive's picture is of a Compact Combi HE 3010 (with 3150W 230V output) not of a Compact 3000.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I am not psychic but there is a bit of the Hercule Poirot in my make up (plus nearly 50 years of engineering knowhow). I would guess that you have a fault on the Printed Circuit Board which is causing this (and under the circumstances, it is only a guess). If you contact Graham Cutmore, he is a genuinely nice chap and might offer a pointer or two so you can fix it yourself. He will know if this is possible or not by asking the right questions. The parts for these boilers are not cheap so I would take the van to an expert for a straight fix (as opposed to buying various bits until you hit on the right one). I have dealt with Graham for parts and repaired the boiler myself. He has no problem with this and even posted the parts BEFORE my cheque reached him. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willum Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 747 - 2012-11-06 12:34 PM I am not psychic but there is a bit of the Hercule Poirot in my make up (plus nearly 50 years of engineering knowhow). I would guess that you have a fault on the Printed Circuit Board which is causing this (and under the circumstances, it is only a guess). If you contact Graham Cutmore, he is a genuinely nice chap and might offer a pointer or two so you can fix it yourself. He will know if this is possible or not by asking the right questions. The parts for these boilers are not cheap so I would take the van to an expert for a straight fix (as opposed to buying various bits until you hit on the right one). I have dealt with Graham for parts and repaired the boiler myself. He has no problem with this and even posted the parts BEFORE my cheque reached him. Best of luck. I managed to get hold of Graham today. Looks like you may be spot-on on several counts. Graham Cutmore suggests it is one of the relays on the main PCB that is failing - since it works on 1kW and 2kW mode but not on 3kW - and 3 kW is obtained by switching both 1 and 2kW elements into circuit. It's probable that the elements are OK and there are no thermal trips as such, just the relays, so it is likely a relay is failing when attempting to switch both elements into circuit for full power. It appears the elements themselves very rarely fail. The not-so-good news is that the relays can't be replaced and the PCB is £115 8-) The good news is Graham has one in stock. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnerontheroad Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Will, Thats the same price Alde charge plus P&P. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 johnnerontheroad - 2012-11-06 6:46 PM Will, Thats the same price Alde charge plus P&P. Dave Have you seen how much Alde charge for P & P ? >:-) I bought a circulating pump from them. The postage was enormous. That is why I use Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Er! My piccy is the 3100, it has both 2KW and 1 KW elements. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willum Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 747 - 2012-11-06 7:20 PM johnnerontheroad - 2012-11-06 6:46 PM Will, Thats the same price Alde charge plus P&P. Dave Have you seen how much Alde charge for P & P ? >:-) I bought a circulating pump from them. The postage was enormous. That is why I use Graham. I had just the same problem as you but if you are the least bit mechanical - bodgery ;-) minded, as I am, I bought a recycled 12volt motor from Proops Brothers, complete with speed controller and 'fitted' it in - with (Clive) a nod in the direction of artful bodgery. The original is connected to the propeller shaft by a rubber sleeve, so easy enough to mod. The bottom bearing that often wears and causes the problem is a bit of nylon mounted in a rubber web and the use of a small lathe, or even a drill press and careful use of small sized drills bodges - sorry - repairs that one quite nicely. It's run for 6 months so far and at about £3.50 for 5 assorted motors, I'll try a few more times at that one before I give up and buy an original. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Clive - 2012-11-06 10:50 PM Er! My piccy is the 3100, it has both 2KW and 1 KW elements. C. No such animal as a 3100. As I said 5 postings up, it's a 3010 Compact ;-) http://www.alde.co.uk/alde-compact-products.php?itemCat=alde%203010%20compact%20system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 747Heavy - 2012-11-07 1:12 AM 747 - 2012-11-06 7:20 PM johnnerontheroad - 2012-11-06 6:46 PM Will, Thats the same price Alde charge plus P&P. Dave Have you seen how much Alde charge for P & P ? >:-) I bought a circulating pump from them. The postage was enormous. That is why I use Graham. I had just the same problem as you but if you are the least bit mechanical - bodgery ;-) minded, as I am, I bought a recycled 12volt motor from Proops Brothers, complete with speed controller and 'fitted' it in - with (Clive) a nod in the direction of artful bodgery. The original is connected to the propeller shaft by a rubber sleeve, so easy enough to mod. The bottom bearing that often wears and causes the problem is a bit of nylon mounted in a rubber web and the use of a small lathe, or even a drill press and careful use of small sized drills bodges - sorry - repairs that one quite nicely. It's run for 6 months so far and at about £3.50 for 5 assorted motors, I'll try a few more times at that one before I give up and buy an original. Will Thanks for that information about a new circulating pump motor. My problem is that I retired and joined a few motorhome forums. This means that I seem to have very little spare time these days. :D I still have the old one and will look into it. The new one has a beefed up motor. The old one was 32 mm diameter and the new one is 40 mm. It has performed perfectly for the last two years. As a graduate of Heath Robinson University, I can return the compliment and give you a tip for the heating. On the side of the boiler is a brass bleed valve. It is a pretty poor bit of kit and does not work effectively anyway. Mine started leaking fluid and this very quickly stops the heating working on low level fluid in the header tank. After a couple of attempts at repairing it, I devised a cunning way around the problem. This valve works like a steam trap in reverse, ie allowing air out without losing any fluid. I went to a pet shop and bought the one way valve used in fish tanks (for aeration). I fitted it after the bleed valve but the wrong way round, to prevent air loss. It only cost me a couple of quid and there has been no fluid loss and my system has never needed bleeding since. They always portray good Engineers as Scottish on TV but I think we Geordies have the edge. :D Pleased you got sorted anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willum Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 747 - 2012-11-07 12:24 PM Thanks for that information about a new circulating pump motor. My problem is that I retired and joined a few motorhome forums. This means that I seem to have very little spare time these days. :D I still have the old one and will look into it. The new one has a beefed up motor. The old one was 32 mm diameter and the new one is 40 mm. It has performed perfectly for the last two years. As a graduate of Heath Robinson University, I can return the compliment and give you a tip for the heating. On the side of the boiler is a brass bleed valve. It is a pretty poor bit of kit and does not work effectively anyway. Mine started leaking fluid and this very quickly stops the heating working on low level fluid in the header tank. After a couple of attempts at repairing it, I devised a cunning way around the problem. This valve works like a steam trap in reverse, ie allowing air out without losing any fluid. I went to a pet shop and bought the one way valve used in fish tanks (for aeration). I fitted it after the bleed valve but the wrong way round, to prevent air loss. It only cost me a couple of quid and there has been no fluid loss and my system has never needed bleeding since. They always portray good Engineers as Scottish on TV but I think we Geordies have the edge. :D Pleased you got sorted anyway. I know the very valve you mean and thanks for the tip. I have quite a few NRVs from car vacuum servo systems awaiting redeployment under the rules of bodgery. I think I just found a use for one. Will ps I'm 50% Geordie as well. If only I had the time, I could see some merit in developing a North Country Bodger's Bible. It would be a weighty tome, without a doubt (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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