Dave225 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Rayjsj - 2013-02-20 10:02 PM Dave225 - 2013-02-20 9:26 PM From what I read regarding the problem it was in the main due to too high a reverse gear coupled to big heavy bodies. Panel vans seem to not have the problem and for some curious reasons no problems seem to occur with the automatic, yet is the same gearbox. I am not sure what 'fixes' were done, the best option was to get the gearbox changed to a better ratio in reverse, but Fiat seems to try and avoid that one. I think that Peugeot were more accommodating. The easy answer is to test drive any one you are interested in backwards up a slope and see what happens. A smelling or burning clutch, and walk away. The earlier models also suffered from water ingress to the engine compartment and a splash plate was fixed to divert this. Dave, Andy Stothert might disagree with you, about panel vans not being affected. I am only quoting what was written in one of the magazines when it was at its height and they stated they had found no instances of panel vans suffering in the same way. They also did feel that weight was a significant issue which unless the panel van is loaded to the gunnels, seems to support that. However, I do not own one so have no personal knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hi Gordon .Drive it and see, try a steep hill and see does it judder when reversing , if it does walk away ,try another ,or something different. quite a few of them still out there, so care is needed.Regards,Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 We're trying out three vans in the next two days,2 x Peugeot and 1 Fiat to do this we'll be travelling a total of 400 miles with a nights layup at a pub CL We have warned the dealers that we expect to test drive all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-02-21 4:06 PM This has been discussed many times and it is nice to see many have changed their minds about the x250 which remains the best van base I have ever driven. Much has been written about the 'judder' but I personally doubt that the great majority ever gave their owners problems so have never had the 'fix' and if they have gone this long will not need it anyway. Their are two other x250 based m/h in the village where i live, one a 2007 one a 2008, both are 2.3 and neither owner was aware of any problem until i mentioned it and neither have bothered with any 'fix'. As others have said drive the thing and see for yourself, reverse it up a steep slope, see how you get on. I would point out the 2.2 five speed never had any problems, i had one of these on a 3500kg base van and it was fine, in fact not much differance between this and the 2.3 in pulling power and the six speed box is completely unnecessary anyway. I haven't 'Changed my mind' about the X250, If there had been an Autotrail on any other chassis with the same layout, I would have bought it, But there isn't. Mine is on a '62 plate, and so far it has been OK, Not a 'Revelation' but OK, for a commercial cab. I would not touch one between 'Release' in late 2006 until 2009/10. no matter what had been done to it. Either go for last of the 'Old style' pre-X250 or Splash out and get a 2009 or a 20010. Less worry that way. If you have a couple of hours to waste, check this Forum from 2007 when Andy Stothert 'went public' about his van that 'Ate it's Gearbox' and his wasn't the ONLY one. Many people got their fingers 'burnt'. I COULD have bought new in 2008/9 but didn't because some were still on the forecourts. Bought a 2005 Peugeot instead. and waited until 2012. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I have not had a good experience with Fiat,s the first fiat I had was the Ducato TJD 2.8 2004 model, which I thought was as flat as a fart, no pulling power, and a really draughty cab , I moved up to a 2008 brand New Fiat 2.3 ducato, more power readily available, good positive steering ,good brakes, all let down by a Gearbox which the reverse gearing was way too high, hence the Judder, If Fiat had have held their hands up and admitted it ,then set about a fix straight off all would have been well, it took Andy Stotherts ,to bring it all to light ,I had complained and was at first fobbed off, Fiat saying it was incorrect driving, (Insult to injury) after a long drawn out battle mine went in for a gearbox support bracket change, that done no difference ,eventually it was taken into our local Fiat dealers and the gearbox modification done, not perfect but a great improvement, it then suffered a fuel problem,whilst touring in the Highlands, not want you want when on holiday in a new Vehicle, into nearest Fiat dealer,to have it diagnosed as a failed EGR Valve, I was then told they did not hold such Item,s in the UK and it would have to be sent in from Italy, that took two weeks, so as soon as it was repaired, I got rid of it and bought what I should have bought first time round , my present and long term Motorhome on a Mercedes, with which I,m really really pleased, Others seem to have had no trouble with their Fiats, Choose Wisely test drive everything you like first, as stated before if you go for a fiat ask if the Modification has been done if your told it wasn't necessary treat it with great caution ,I found most dealers were economical with the truth when selling a Motorhome , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 One thing that several posters seem to have overlooked, or have no knowledge of, is the even worse gearbox problems that similier aged Renaults have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 colin - 2013-02-21 7:19 PM One thing that several posters seem to have overlooked, or have no knowledge of, is the even worse gearbox problems that similier aged Renaults have. News to me, proof ? all the local tradesmen use Trafics or Masters, none of them know of any problems. None mentioned on here. OK not a lot of motorhomes on Renaults though. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Corky 8 - 2013-02-21 6:12 PM I have not had a good experience with Fiat,s the first fiat I had was the Ducato TJD 2.8 2004 model, which I thought was as flat as a fart, no pulling power, and a really draughty cab , I moved up to a 2008 brand New Fiat 2.3 ducato, more power readily available, good positive steering ,good brakes, all let down by a Gearbox which the reverse gearing was way too high, hence the Judder, If Fiat had have held their hands up and admitted it ,then set about a fix straight off all would have been well, it took Andy Stotherts ,to bring it all to light ,I had complained and was at first fobbed off, Fiat saying it was incorrect driving, (Insult to injury) after a long drawn out battle mine went in for a gearbox support bracket change, that done no difference ,eventually it was taken into our local Fiat dealers and the gearbox modification done, not perfect but a great improvement, it then suffered a fuel problem,whilst touring in the Highlands, not want you want when on holiday in a new Vehicle, into nearest Fiat dealer,to have it diagnosed as a failed EGR Valve, I was then told they did not hold such Item,s in the UK and it would have to be sent in from Italy, that took two weeks, so as soon as it was repaired, I got rid of it and bought what I should have bought first time round , my present and long term Motorhome on a Mercedes, with which I,m really really pleased, Others seem to have had no trouble with their Fiats, Choose Wisely test drive everything you like first, as stated before if you go for a fiat ask if the Modification has been done if your told it wasn't necessary treat it with great caution ,I found most dealers were economical with the truth when selling a Motorhome , My transmission modifications were carried out by Platts Stoke on Trent, their workmanship was first class, although a big improvement, however, I still had a judder when reversing up a steep incline. I have heard rumours on the forums were the motorhome owners were less than happy with the workmanship on the transmission modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Rayjsj - 2013-02-21 8:25 PM colin - 2013-02-21 7:19 PM One thing that several posters seem to have overlooked, or have no knowledge of, is the even worse gearbox problems that similier aged Renaults have. News to me, proof ? all the local tradesmen use Trafics or Masters, none of them know of any problems. None mentioned on here. OK not a lot of motorhomes on Renaults though. Ray Well it's not news to me or the larger fleet operators, I personaly know of only one total gearbox failure on a X2/50 yet several on the last Renault Master, and interesting enough I've read more reports of Renault gearbox failures on motorhomes than X2/50 gearbox failures, and as you say considering the low numbers it should ring alarm bells for any potencial buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 If you want to read some of the 'history' of the juddergate saga, go to the search facility and put in the search details as follows: Keywords: judder Filter by author: AndyStothert Date limit: All posts For those who still continue to dismiss this and deny it happened/happens ... in their dreams! 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 The 'Deny everything' folk are still around. Hard to believe, then, there are still some that deny 'The Holocaust' happened too. ' Hard Proof' rather than 'hearsay' is what counts. I used to work for BASF (ex. I G Farben of Zyklon B 'fame' IT happened.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Double Post, slow website again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Rayjsj - 2013-02-22 11:10 AM I used to work for BASF (ex. I G Farben of Zyklon B 'fame' IT happened.) I haven't a clue what that means .. you been sniffing something? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 BASF is one of the largest chemical manufacturing companies in the world based in Germany. It also has one of the largest wastewater treatment plants in the world. What it has to do with Juddergate I don't know, maybe I'm having one of my senior moments and missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Afternoon all, mines ok. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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