Van conversion - making it more comfortable for Winter use

[Mel B]

I thought I would let people know how our van has performed this weekend in sub-zero temperatures with some 'adaptations' which has made it much more comfortable, especially since some people don't think that van conversions are suitable for winter (spring!) use. B-)

 

Background info: I have a 2012 Autocruise Accent (front half-dinette kitchen/washroom in the centre, and rear transverse lounge/bed). I was a bit 'concerned' before we bought a van conversion as to how comfortable it would be in cold weather as they are not supposed to be as well insulated as coachbuilt motorhomes which is one reason why it has taken us so long to get a van instead, even though we've wanted one for some time, especially since I really DO feel the cold and can be affected by it quite badly! Anyway, we had booked to go to the Newark Motorhome Spring Fair, from Thursday 21st to Sunday 24th March so we kept an eye on the weather forecasts leading up to it and knew it would be cold so just over a week ago on a dry and 'warmish' Tuesday I decided to do some additional insulation etc jobs on the van which I'd been planning for a while but due to the bad weather hadn't managed to get done. This is what I did then and had already done beforehand to make the van more 'cold weather' friendly and how it performed afterwards:

 

1. External heating pipe - for some reason the heater pipe runs across from the boiler to the washroom and then for some unknown reason goes out under the floor of the van and then comes back up into the base of the dinette seat to 2 vents (I don't understand why it doesn't simply run underneath the moulding in the washroom!). As this pipe obviously is exposed to the weather, despite it apparently being a 'double layer' pipe, the insulation is minimal so much of the heat would dissipate before reaching the front of the van. I therefore wrapped the pipe in 2 layers of bubble wrap and then wrapped it all in a good layer of gaffer tape to ensure it stayed put and protect it all from the weather.

 

2. Freshwater tank pipework - despite the tank itself and pipe from it leading into the van being insulated, the 45 degree 'elbow' that attaches the pipe to the tank itself wasn't, and neither was the drain pipe leading to the drain tap, nor the pipe from the water filler cap to the tank, so it wasn't totally 'insulated' as I thought it was supposed to be. I therefore used some domestic pipe insulation (the sort of foam tubing stuff you use for lagging pipes in the attic) on the drain pipe and the 45 degree 'elbow' and covered it all in gaffer tape. I didn't do the water filler pipe as I didn't have enough foam piping and, although I could have used some more bubble wrap and gaffer tape instead, by this time I couldn't feel my hands anymore as it had turned very cold! This is something I will rectify next time we get a bit more 'warmer' weather ... whenever that may be!!!

 

3. Window covers - I used some old 'silvered' slightly padded sunscreen material and cut out covers for all of the acrylic windows so that they fitted snugly against the inside of the windows and still allowed the internal blinds to be closed (ie the silvered screens were the 'filling' in the sandwich).

 

4. Windscreen cover - I use an external padded windscreen/cab door cover and a set of internal padded covers too which sit on the inside of the windscreen and cab door windows and still allow the blinds to be closed, if necessary both the internal and external screens can be used together.

 

5. Curtains - as our van doesn't have any curtains at all and our bed runs along the rear of the van I made some curtains to go across the full width of the rear door and hang on rings onto an expanding curtain pole which is held in place with a couple of spring clips and the whole lot can easily be removed totally if necessary (ie in summer when they won't be needed).

 

6. Roof Vents - I had already made covers for the roof vents using the same type of material that internal padded windscreen covers are made of. I did find, however, that there was still quite a draught coming from the roof vent over the bed so I shall have to investigate this further and may have to put in some additional 'padding' - whilst I appreciate the need for sufficient ventilation, there's nothing worse than having fresh cold air being 'blown' on your head all night!

 

So how did we get on?

 

Firstly let me say that we never have the heating on overnight so I was a bit concerned how well the van would perform as this was to be the first time we'd use it in such cold weather and our previous coachbuilt motorhomes weren't exactly warm overnight!

 

Well, on Thursday night we were a bit chilly but we hadn't used the window covers (I couldn't find them but knew they were in the van somewhere!). On Friday (last night) though I found the covers and put them on and we were definitely warmer even though it was below freezing and snowing. We also had 3 duvets on the bed instead of the 2 we'd had on for Thursday night (we'd bought a new one at the motorhome show as our existing ones were a bit small for the bed anyway) and we were lovely and snug, in fact so much so that several times I threw off the duvets altogether to cool down a bit. The ONLY thing that was still a 'problem' though was the draught from the roof vent over my head but that'll get sorted shortly.

 

This morning we awoke to it still snowing and high winds. When I took one of the window covers off to peak out I could really feel the difference in temperature and the window soon got condensation on it with the snow on the outside melting and sliding off - to me this proved that having the covers on had certainly prevented the cold from coming in and the heat from escaping. There also wasn't any 'breath' signs which you get when it's cold, which again we used to get in the coachbuilt motorhomes on occasion, and even without the heating on it wasn't freezing in the van either.

 

So, overall, now that I've done my 'bits and pieces' I'm more than happy with how well the van stands up to the cold weather and won't worry about going away in it again when there is a prospect of snow and freezing temperatures!

 

The only disappointment was that NO ONE would have a snowball fight with me! >:-(

[dencol]

thanks for your post and the ideas you have given me. I have an autosleeper symbol and use it winter / spring / summer without much problem. I have 'adapted' some items similar to yourself. The main problem I found was a draft from the bottom of the sliding side door and the rear double doors.

To cure this I purchased a couple of cheap door dogs (not sure if this is the proper name) from the market and cut them to fit the space along the bottom of the doors. Job done.

 

I did check with autosleeper re any problems with lack of ventilation by doing this and although they would not commit themselves the engineer did not foresee any problems just suggested I try them during a day when in the van and see if there was any build up of condensation. I do not use any form of heating during the night and no 'vents' are blocked.

 

regards Colin

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

We have an IH conversion, we have no rear doors at all, just this alone made a huge difference from a previous van conversion. However we have found the greatest improvement for warmth has come from closing off the cab area with some very heavy duty curtains, of course the loss of that space may be an issue for some, but proved far more beneficial than external silver screens, so much so our "Taylor made" went on Ebay,and also eliminated what for me was a chore, dealing with a large, and very often wet item to remove and store.

 

We have two thermostatic 800 watt mini oil filled rads, ideal as they are noise free, and can be left on overnight, compared to previous coach built vans owned we have no trouble at all with keeping warm, but again I think the cab areas were always the Achilles heel with those the same as a PVC, so in my view address that first and you've more or less cracked it, and gaffer tape over cab door vents, and set fresh air to recirculate on the dashboard helps as well ;-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

German van in winter test (in Italy) -4 outside 24 inside. So wrong to assume that panel vans not suitable for winter use......Well at least not decent ones.

 

[Guest Peter James]

Interesting, Thanks.

I just use curtain blackout material, on its own, to close off the cab area. Although very thin, for easy opening and closing, it does not let air through it. So very effective for heat insulation.

Being light colored it also reflects the light back into the van, as well as the heat.

You don't need to hem the edges as it doesn't fray.

Its cheap too :-)

[johnnerontheroad]

Would it not be better to buy a winterized european van?

[Mel B]

JudgeMental - 2013-03-24 11:33 AM

 

German van in winter test (in Italy) -4 outside 24 inside. So wrong to assume that panel vans not suitable for winter use......Well at least not decent ones.

 

 

Yes Eddie, but I'm talking about overnight WITHOUT heating on ... I assume 24 inside is with it on?

[Mel B]

johnnerontheroad - 2013-03-24 12:44 PM

 

Would it not be better to buy a winterized european van?

 

As with all vans it would be great to get EXACTLY what you want, but unfortunately layout etc usually dictates most of what you end up with. Also, you can winterise a van much easier that you can get an already fully winterised one and then move the layout around! :-D

 

I think you'll also find that a lot of the things I've done on my van are applicable to many vans and coachbuilts regardless of whether they're supposed to be winterised or not - such as the acrylic window and roof vent covers, windscreen covers etc.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

We had a so called winterized van, problem was it still had a front windscreen, and cab side windows,and acres of plastic windows, gas drop vents, large plastic roof lights and all the rest. The bottom line is there are so many factors to overcome with every van, but you can do a lot of DIY to improve things, a very simple one is to keep all window blinds shut. Our British built conversion will laugh of sub zero temperatures given 1800 watts of heat in a very short time,and 900 watts overnight, but I've yet to come across one that will do so without any heating at all,unless you really enjoy freezing your whatsits off in the early hours, can't even manage that in our state of the art insulated home, so in a van I think is asking for the moon, whoever has made it ;-)

 

Or maybe we're cold arses. :D

[johnnerontheroad]

Mel B - 2013-03-24 1:56 PM

 

johnnerontheroad - 2013-03-24 12:44 PM

 

Would it not be better to buy a winterized european van?

 

As with all vans it would be great to get EXACTLY what you want, but unfortunately layout etc usually dictates most of what you end up with. Also, you can winterise a van much easier that you can get an already fully winterised one and then move the layout around! :-D

 

I think you'll also find that a lot of the things I've done on my van are applicable to many vans and coachbuilts regardless of whether they're supposed to be winterised or not - such as the acrylic window and roof vent covers, windscreen covers etc.

 

Each to their own, but I will stick to better built and designed european vans, who in their right mind would design a M/H with the heating ducts outside the van.

 

Dave

[Zydeco Joe]

Was out Friday night in our 2005 Auto Trail Tracker and no sub zero problems.

Fitted a Silver Screen cover, cardboard into the roof lights, hidden by the normal blinds. Took radio speaker door covers off and sealed them both with clear plastic and replaced covers so again out of site (no speakers in the doors). Left heater on all night running on gas down at lowest setting. Blanket inside double sleeping bag, result a good warm nights sleep.

Did this on a 6 week France and Spain trip Dec and Jan this year, only mod was the door speaker blocking and that is for on the move to warm the cab area, still not great but a bit better. B-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

johnnerontheroad - 2013-03-24 2:22 PM

 

Mel B - 2013-03-24 1:56 PM

 

johnnerontheroad - 2013-03-24 12:44 PM

 

Would it not be better to buy a winterized european van?

 

As with all vans it would be great to get EXACTLY what you want, but unfortunately layout etc usually dictates most of what you end up with. Also, you can winterise a van much easier that you can get an already fully winterised one and then move the layout around! :-D

 

I think you'll also find that a lot of the things I've done on my van are applicable to many vans and coachbuilts regardless of whether they're supposed to be winterised or not - such as the acrylic window and roof vent covers, windscreen covers etc.

 

Each to their own, but I will stick to better built and designed european vans, who in their right mind would design a M/H with the heating ducts outside the van.

 

Dave

 

Quite agree about the pipework routing of MelBs van, but we had a European built and designed van, and the Eberspacher heater, and some of the heating ducting WAS under the van, so they don't all get it right. :-(

 

Guess like many things it's check, check, and check again.....before you hand over your cash.

 

I'm firmly convinced some of these designers have never spent a week living in a van, and I'm even more convinced would have never made an half decent meal in one, how many vans are totally devoid of a draining board for instance, or a proper oven which for us is a must, last European van we looked at had one, only problem was you needed a step ladder to use it, oh well......................so sorry I don't buy into the European designed and built thing as being the last word, I don't think anyone has achieved that, but my friends Rapido does come pretty close, as does the IH British designed and built range IMO ;-)

[colin]

Mel B - 2013-03-24 1:45 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-03-24 11:33 AM

 

German van in winter test (in Italy) -4 outside 24 inside. So wrong to assume that panel vans not suitable for winter use......Well at least not decent ones.

 

 

Yes Eddie, but I'm talking about overnight WITHOUT heating on ... I assume 24 inside is with it on?

Haven't looked at eddies link as on mobile, but guess it was a Globecar like ours. What have we done to winterise it? Nothing, last night set heating to minimum in case it got cold, but it never switched on once, o.k. We are in cornwall, but has the same thing happen in peak district. No heating and only a 9 tog quilt keeps me warm

[johnnerontheroad]

1footinthegrave - 2013-03-24 3:19 PM

 

johnnerontheroad - 2013-03-24 2:22 PM

 

Mel B - 2013-03-24 1:56 PM

 

johnnerontheroad - 2013-03-24 12:44 PM

 

Would it not be better to buy a winterized european van?

 

As with all vans it would be great to get EXACTLY what you want, but unfortunately layout etc usually dictates most of what you end up with. Also, you can winterise a van much easier that you can get an already fully winterised one and then move the layout around! :-D

 

I think you'll also find that a lot of the things I've done on my van are applicable to many vans and coachbuilts regardless of whether they're supposed to be winterised or not - such as the acrylic window and roof vent covers, windscreen covers etc.

 

Each to their own, but I will stick to better built and designed european vans, who in their right mind would design a M/H with the heating ducts outside the van.

 

Dave

 

Quite agree about the pipework routing of MelBs van, but we had a European built and designed van, and the Eberspacher heater, and some of the heating ducting WAS under the van, so they don't all get it right. :-(

 

 

What van was it?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Trigano Tribute ;-)

[johnnerontheroad]

1footinthegrave - 2013-03-24 4:03 PM

 

Trigano Tribute ;-)

 

Thought so British

 

Tribute range consists of what is regarded by many as the best value high-top layout in Europe, plus a range of six imaginatively conceived and brilliantly executed coachbuilt motorhomes, designed and assembled at Auto-Trail’s state-of-the-art manufacturing facility in North Lincolnshire. Responsible for the coachbuilt range is the same dedicated team of time served craftsmen and women, innovative designers and highly qualified engineers who build a range of award winning leisure vehicles.

 

Dave

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Sorry to spoil your glee, not as clear cut as you think, here's some info, so they could all be equally crap European, or British made, and ours was produced in Italy.

 

Post on February 16, 2013

 

French based Trigano has an impressive portfolio of Motorhome manufacturers across Europe, including Chausson in France, Auto-Trail in the UK and CI in Italy, which is Italy’s biggest Motorhome manufacturer.

 

The deal is still awaiting clearance from the French and Italian competition authorities.

 

Trigano is set to adopt up to £12 million of SEA’s debt. Trigano’s statement to the media stated that it plans to reform and modernise SEA’s company infrastructre, and has reassured the Motorhome industry that it is confident the takeover will be successful. However Trigano have yet to confirm the future of the 365 Italian employees is safe

[johnnerontheroad]

1footinthegrave - 2013-03-24 4:27 PM

 

Not as clear cut as you think, here's some info.

 

Post on February 16, 2013

 

French based Trigano has an impressive portfolio of Motorhome manufacturers across Europe, including Chausson in France, Auto-Trail in the UK and CI in Italy, which is Italy’s biggest Motorhome manufacturer.

 

The deal is still awaiting clearance from the French and Italian competition authorities.

 

Trigano is set to adopt up to £12 million of SEA’s debt. Trigano’s statement to the media stated that it plans to reform and modernise SEA’s company infrastructre, and has reassured the Motorhome industry that it is confident the takeover will be successful. However Trigano have yet to confirm the future of the 365 Italian employees is safe

 

What's that got to do with it it is designed and built in the UK may be French owned thats off Tribute's site. http://www.tributemotorhomes.co.uk/about-us

 

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

johnnerontheroad - 2013-03-24 4:33 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-03-24 4:27 PM

 

Not as clear cut as you think, here's some info.

 

Post on February 16, 2013

 

French based Trigano has an impressive portfolio of Motorhome manufacturers across Europe, including Chausson in France, Auto-Trail in the UK and CI in Italy, which is Italy’s biggest Motorhome manufacturer.

 

The deal is still awaiting clearance from the French and Italian competition authorities.

 

Trigano is set to adopt up to £12 million of SEA’s debt. Trigano’s statement to the media stated that it plans to reform and modernise SEA’s company infrastructre, and has reassured the Motorhome industry that it is confident the takeover will be successful. However Trigano have yet to confirm the future of the 365 Italian employees is safe

 

What's that got to do with it it is designed and built in the UK may be French owned thats off Tribute's site. http://www.tributemotorhomes.co.uk/about-us

 

 

The main dealer I purchased from said it was an Italian designed and built vehicle, that may well have been before Trigano UK was established, mine was a 2003 van.

Some are still described thus below, I have no axe to grind as that was how it was sold to me, Italian built and designed, and crap.

 

TRIGANO TRIBUTE 665 CLASSIC (2010)

£27,995

This Italian used Motorhome or panel van is a very unique layout, a small van with a big rear bed, that does fold away. A very popular Italian built van range based on the Fiat Ducato. The tribute has always sold here well new, and used. The van is also in a nice cream colour and is referred to as the Classique. Inside, the Driver and passenger seats both swivel into the living area and dining table - which also attaches behind the sliding door to give you an outside table. In the kitchen there is a hob, oven and grill, with a good sized 3 way fridge. The bathroom has a toilet and shower. On the outside the previous owner has had fitted an awning.

 

http://www.leisurekingdom.co.uk/used-Motorhomes/Motorhomes-model/Properties/TRIGANO-TRIBUTE+665+CLASSIC-2010/modelno-00019762

[Keithl]

Guys,

 

I think you're getting your Tributes mixed up here!

 

A Trigano Tribute is as 1Foot says probably made in Italy whereas a Tribute MH is made by AutoTrail in Grimsby. The first is based on a Fiat and the latter on Ford.

 

As I understand it they are from totally different camps!

 

I stand to be corrected but this my understanding.

 

Keith.

[snowie]

Mel B - 2013-03-24 1:56 PM

 

 

As with all vans it would be great to get EXACTLY what you want, but unfortunately layout etc usually dictates most of what you end up with. Also, you can winterise a van much easier that you can get an already fully winterised one and then move the layout around! :-D

 

.

Hi Mel; I'm not sure the van designers really think about what we need anyway.

If it's your first van you don't know anyway, if it's not your first then there should be no excuses.

Even if you get exactly what you THINK you want, it's not always what you thought it was going to be; is it?

We don't have any pipework or ducting outside the hab area. Our main area of discomfort is the floor. I doubt if we have any insulation between the plywood floor and the floor pan of the van. Only really an issue in the middle of the night, when it's sub-zero, and as we don't intentionally camp in arctic areas that's not often.

But still got me thinking, and I think a laminate panel over-floor, (10mm polystyrene+ floor finish) will work for winter trips. Add the tumbletwist rugs we currently use, and it should be toasty!

Now: will it be warm enough for a trip to Greetham and Oakham before Easter??

We'll see,

take care

alan b

 

 

[Mel B]

I believe all the Tribute range of van conversions are built in Italy. As far as I'm aware it is only the coachbuilt range that is actually produced in the UK:

 

2013’s Tribute range consists of what is regarded by many as the best value high-top layout in Europe, plus a range of six imaginatively conceived and brilliantly executed coachbuilt motorhomes, designed and assembled at Auto-Trail’s state-of-the-art manufacturing facility in North Lincolnshire. Responsible for the coachbuilt range is the same dedicated team of time served craftsmen and women, innovative designers and highly qualified engineers who build a range of award winning leisure vehicles.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Keithl - 2013-03-24 5:18 PM

 

Guys,

 

I think you're getting your Tributes mixed up here!

 

A Trigano Tribute is as 1Foot says probably made in Italy whereas a Tribute MH is made by AutoTrail in Grimsby. The first is based on a Fiat and the latter on Ford.

 

As I understand it they are from totally different camps!

 

I stand to be corrected but this my understanding.

 

Keith.

 

Yes that may well be the case, thanks for the clarification, ours was a Trigano Tribute on a 2.3 Jtd Fiat. ;-)

[Mel B]

Keithl - 2013-03-24 5:18 PM

 

Guys,

 

I think you're getting your Tributes mixed up here!

 

A Trigano Tribute is as 1Foot says probably made in Italy whereas a Tribute MH is made by AutoTrail in Grimsby. The first is based on a Fiat and the latter on Ford.

 

As I understand it they are from totally different camps!

 

I stand to be corrected but this my understanding.

 

Keith.

 

Sneaky little horror! You snook in whilst I was cutting and pasting from the other website! :D

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

But back to the matter in hand, it would be interesting to know the price difference starting with a base van, and your own design, then contract someone to make it for you. Just last year I came across a guy that had done his own VERY professional conversion on a LWB Merc, it was truly fantastic, he said he'd gone that route because of his general disatisfaction with what he could buy off the shelf. The actual equipment costs were quite modest, but of course his labour was free, interesting thought none the less, and it really was the dogs ;-)

 

I do think however the biggest thing that could make them all more comfortable in the Winter was for this global warming to kick in big time. :D