PVC or Coachbuilt ????

[hughman]

Hi All,

 

we're hoping to downsize shortly and are looking at vans in Germany. It's a toss-up between Possl/Globecar (well built, neat design, no damp issues as it's a van, easy drive) and probably a Sunlight low profile (bigger inside, bit more kit, but, bulkier and trickier in small villages etc).

 

I'd really appreciate pros and cons to help us swing decision one way or the other :-S

 

Merry Easter to all.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Welcome! Panel van every time...If you are considering the change you must already know it makes a whole lot of sense:-D But this is primarily a motor home forum so bias will be in the bigger is better direction. You only need to read the countless threads with lists off issues and faults etc to work out this is bunkum :D

[mel wood]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your Easter greetings which I reciprocate.

 

Regarding your choice of van, without being rude, only you (and your travelling companion?) can make the decision. Really so much depends on what you want, need (and don't need) and how you will use your van. So many people prefer different types and sizes of van that you are likely to get recommendations for both types of van.

 

Personally our first van was a 2002 VW T4 Auto-Sleepers Trident which we had for over 6 years. We then wanted something slightly bigger with an on-board loo. We considered panel vans and small coachbuilts.

We wanted something which would be our only vehicle.

 

After much research we decided on a panel van ( Auto-Sleepers Symbol ES /Peugeot Boxer) which is 5.65 metres long. It totally suits our needs. With a panel van we are able to use it to carry large items, eg we were able to transport 2 freezers back from a store, saving delivery costs. It is small enough and economical enough to use as our only vehicle yet we have had extended holidays during our 4 years of ownership, including a 10 week trip in France and a 7 week trip in Scotland, Orkney and Shetland.

 

So for us, a panel van meets our needs but that doesn't mean that it will be the same for you. Have you considered hiring the type of van/s you are considering before buying?

 

One point of warning: if you buy a Boxer/Fiat Ducato/Citroen be wary of using a bike rack which is fitted to a back door. We (and at least one other person) had a major problem in that after a couple of years the door began to buckle and in our case there was a hefty repair bill. We now have folding bikes in bags which we are able to store safely inside the van when travelling and in the cab when on site.

 

Whichever type of van you choose we will be interested to know and all the best with it.

 

[colin]

As above, it depends on how you want to use it. We find a pvc suits us fine, have spent the last week driving around the lanes of cornwall and it's in these situations where a pvc comes into its own, but do remember that if it's a 6 or 6.36m pvc it can still be difficult finding parking at times, it's only 5 or 5.4m vans that are trouble free.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Hello Hughman, we have a PVC having had two coachbuilts as well, if I was doing it again now I'd be looking for a LWB with the option of two fixed single beds, hate shuffling cushions around, which was the only benefit with our Elnagh CB with a fixed bed. Of course it is easy to get it wrong, a previous PVC was awful once we came to use it, and got shot after just 8 months, our present IH is just about perfect, but still involves cushion shuffling every night. Try to get something that does away with that nightly chore would be one of my highest priorities. ;-)

 

I would add, don't be too complacent on no damp issues ever though, vans juts like CBs have numerous holes cut into the body, and the sealant can and does give out sometimes, had it on our Thetford cassette door just last year although on a ten year old van so perhaps not surprising. :-(

[hughman]

1footinthegrave - 2013-03-29 2:41 PM

 

LWB with the option of two fixed single beds, hate shuffling cushions around, w :-(

 

Exactly what we're after if we go the PVC route. We've got a huge Burstner at the moment and I want a) to get under the 3.5 tonne magic point, and b) not have to climb over/be climbed over at night, which is the drawback of the horizontal bed.

 

The damp business is one big point - at least vans don't have wooden body frames.

 

Have any PVC owners found any major drawbacks other than space?

 

[EMS]

I found that after trying the length of the double bed in a friends Panel Van(Adria) that it was too short as it was across the van, otherwise it had a very good complement of facilities.

I see now that some are fitted with longitudinal beds that would/could overcome this problem, but tey are becoming as large as a coachbuilt!

[mel wood]

EMS - 2013-03-29 3:20 PM

 

I found that after trying the length of the double bed in a friends Panel Van(Adria) that it was too short as it was across the van, otherwise it had a very good complement of facilities.

I see now that some are fitted with longitudinal beds that would/could overcome this problem, but tey are becoming as large as a coachbuilt!

 

I understand the problem as I am 6 feet 3 inches tall. Whilst our van (Symbol ES) is the same width as the current Adria panel vans I find that lying at a slight angle I can sleep comfortably in the double bed with my wife.

Also we have the option of 2 single beds which are longitudinal and longer than the transverse bed. The singles are made with a minimum of cushion shifting .

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

http://www.ihmotorhomes.com/tio-range.html

 

Single or double beds

no rear doors

excellent build quality, we have a ten year old one, still looks as new, all the kit you could wish for in a CB or PVC, but sharp intake of breath at price. :D

 

But on the plus side, high demand and resale value on second hand ones. ;-)

[Colin Leake]

Which ever way you decide to go do make sure you have room to store bulky items such as chairs, BBQ, leveling blocks,etc. Look at all such items you take with you at the moment less any you think you could do without and make sure you have room to store them.

[Guest JudgeMental]

We carry more or less exactly the same stuff we carried in the CB. Bought some more compact but comfortable chairs and a smaller and to be honest more efficient BBQ. All fits under the rear bed fine. We have 3 x 80 litre storage boxes. one for food and drink, one for all our bike stuff, including 4 pannier bags etc...and one for all the camping related stuff, leads, tools, bits and pieces etc...

 

As you are looking at German you will hopefully have the same size tanks, fridge and gas capacity as in a a decent CB. Ours has best king size bed of any camper we have ever had...Obviously you dont get the lounging space of a bigger van, but its comfortable enough and positives far outweigh the negatives and we could never go back to a CB. My wife did not mind the downsize one little bit, and she is happy to drive this but never drove the CB.

[Mel B]

Hi hughman - welcome to the mad house! :-D

 

This is a dilemma we had previously - we had a large Rimor Sailer 645TC low profile coachbuilt at 7.14m long x 2.23m wide with a large transverse bed at the rear over a massive garage, at the front was a double dinette at one side with the wash room behind it, and on the other the kitchen/wardrobe. It was a lovely van but it was toooooooo big for just the two of us and the way we 'motorhomed' as we liked to go into villages and down small narrow lanes. We had it for nearly 3 years and then 'downsized' to a Chausson Flash 04 at 5.99m long x 2.30m wide with virtually the same layout but on a smaller scale, and it was a breath of fresh air - no more worrying about it's bottom catching on anything as we turned corners etc and we took it down lanes where even van conversion would fear to tread. However, we did find the width overall still restricted us a bit so we kept it for over 2 and a half years and then saw a PVC that ticked a lot of boxes for us last August so changed for that - an Autocruise Accent, similar layout but in a smaller 'package' still!

 

For us, the benefit of this is not only on the size of the van for when we're away, but also for when we're at home too as it can 'multi-task' which we couldn't do easily with a coachbuilt. We have now both left work so it also means that we don't need the 'normal' car any more for commuting so it gets very little use and the PVC can be used to move stuff around if needs be - we also picked up a cheap Smart car too which is brilliant fun (and purpley-pink!) so are keeping this and selling our two Sym scooters too.

[rupert123]

Well I do not agree with most of the above, had a panel van for only a few weeks and made three trips in it. It is impossible however to decide for someone else and you will have to make your own mind up. The things we did not like others seem to find ok, maybe because they cannot admit to any fault with something they bought. Make sure you can cope with the side sliding door, my wife could not close it from the inside, in fact struggled with it from the outside, it really is a pain. Rear doors are ok I guess but better without, only van I know of that is properly built here is IH. Size, for us, they are just to small, ok if you spend all you time in southern Spain but anywhere else you have to live indoors on occasion and here they are just rubbish, far to cramped., The things you have to do just to make them livable with, just read some of Mel B's stuff, she has practically rebuilt hers, I could not be bothered, rather buy a van that does the job. The only thing they are good for is if it is your only vehicle and you feel the need to carry building material around on occasion, oh yes mine did a few more mpg, not so much more though. Mine was a uk van so properly equiped with a full oven and three hobs, decent shower/ toilet compartment, built in gas tank, built in avtec tv, cruise, aircon etc, but still not for us.

[Barryd999]

I have a coach built Kontiki but would love a PVC. I just cannot make it work for us though. Just have not found one with enough space or storage for our stuff.

 

If I was on my own I would have one in a shot though. Maybe I can trade in Mrs D for one. Any offers? :-D

[Mel B]

rupert123 - 2013-03-29 5:39 PM

 

Well I do not agree with most of the above, had a panel van for only a few weeks and made three trips in it. It is impossible however to decide for someone else and you will have to make your own mind up. The things we did not like others seem to find ok, maybe because they cannot admit to any fault with something they bought. Make sure you can cope with the side sliding door, my wife could not close it from the inside, in fact struggled with it from the outside, it really is a pain. Rear doors are ok I guess but better without, only van I know of that is properly built here is IH. Size, for us, they are just to small, ok if you spend all you time in southern Spain but anywhere else you have to live indoors on occasion and here they are just rubbish, far to cramped., The things you have to do just to make them livable with, just read some of Mel B's stuff, she has practically rebuilt hers, I could not be bothered, rather buy a van that does the job. The only thing they are good for is if it is your only vehicle and you feel the need to carry building material around on occasion, oh yes mine did a few more mpg, not so much more though. Mine was a uk van so properly equiped with a full oven and three hobs, decent shower/ toilet compartment, built in gas tank, built in avtec tv, cruise, aircon etc, but still not for us.

You're totally entitled to your view rupert but don't use me as an example to try to prove it! :-S

I haven't 'practically rebuilt' mine at all, what I have done though is alter, or add things to it, to suit OUR needs/wants, which are not necessarily what others will do - the van was perfectly usable anyway without the vast majority of these things and the only really necessity was to sort out the few minor 'problems' we had with it which could easily have been applicable to a coachbuilt too.

 

I know you didn't get on with yours, and I admire your candour for admitting it, but I am very 'settled' with our van and feel at home with it, much more than I did with our coachbuilts, but that's not to say that they weren't great, just not as 'suitable' for us as this one! :D

[Guest JudgeMental]

ignore Rupert he is our resident misery..All his negatives that most of us see as positives (large sliding door, rear access doors for practicality) that they cant now live with, post purchase, could have easily been identified if they had bothered to engage their brains beforehand....That he went for the shortest van available also mind boggling! *-)

[bolero boy]

rupert123 - 2013-03-29 5:39 PM

 

Well I do not agree with most of the above, had a panel van for only a few weeks and made three trips in it. It is impossible however to decide for someone else and you will have to make your own mind up. The things we did not like others seem to find ok, maybe because they cannot admit to any fault with something they bought. Make sure you can cope with the side sliding door, my wife could not close it from the inside, in fact struggled with it from the outside, it really is a pain. Rear doors are ok I guess but better without, only van I know of that is properly built here is IH. Size, for us, they are just to small, ok if you spend all you time in southern Spain but anywhere else you have to live indoors on occasion and here they are just rubbish, far to cramped., The things you have to do just to make them livable with, just read some of Mel B's stuff, she has practically rebuilt hers, I could not be bothered, rather buy a van that does the job. The only thing they are good for is if it is your only vehicle and you feel the need to carry building material around on occasion, oh yes mine did a few more mpg, not so much more though. Mine was a uk van so properly equiped with a full oven and three hobs, decent shower/ toilet compartment, built in gas tank, built in avtec tv, cruise, aircon etc, but still not for us.

Rupert, what new van is on your shopping list or have you already got a replacement for the PVC?

[ips]

I agree with Rupert and Barry we nearly changed for a pvc as it seemed a good idea at the time but after much deliberation we decided we couldnt cope with it for various reasons ie the sliding door which gets the van wet through every time you open it in the rain and the general lack of space. But each to there own iand i still love the looks and the idea but just not for us at the moment but never say never. There are some nice narrow cb vans around as an option.

[dshague]

after owning three coachbuilts and seven pvc over the past twenty years would not change my pvc .when choosing you next van spend a lot of time looking at were you will store things,get the bed out and try it ,sit at the table and lounge about when bed is put back.when you take it for a test drive you will be amazed with the drive and were you can park it ...its been said every one to there own ....

[rudders]

hughman - 2013-03-29 12:54 PM

 

Hi All,

 

we're hoping to downsize shortly and are looking at vans in Germany. It's a toss-up between Possl/Globecar (well built, neat design, no damp issues as it's a van, easy drive) and probably a Sunlight low profile (bigger inside, bit more kit, but, bulkier and trickier in small villages etc).

 

I'd really appreciate pros and cons to help us swing decision one way or the other :-S

 

Merry Easter to all.

I also looked at down sizing late last year with thoughts of using a pvc also for everyday use, so we took ourselves off to the NEC and took a very good look at all of the PVCs on display, however very few of them had 4 berth and 4 seat belt facilities ( grandchildren now and then ), also sitting inside them we felt very cramped, and most had kitchens which stuck out over the sliding door, and the beds for me were not large enough for my tall body, lounge areas were very small and compact,there was only one that we quite liked but that was something like £58,000 which was way out of our price range,so we started to look at coachbuilts again, liked the baileys but the width was probably wider than most other coach builts, and when i put this to the salesman he stated that the width of the cab including the mirrors was more or less the same as that of a pvc with the same base vehicle, i have not looked into this so dont know if this is true or just sales talk, however we eventually waltsed into the german motorhomes and found one that would accomadate four people and had four belted seats with a large l shaped kitchen with almost 4 feet of of extra fixed worktop area and a lounge that could seat up to 7 people,also had a very adequate washroom, and also had a large drop down bed, which in our opinion is as good as a fixed bed all made up and ready to pull down, only drawback is if one of us gets up before the other then its duck your head time with your early morning cuppa however dont consider this a drawback as would just kick the wife out of bed!!!! so anyway ended up with a larger motorhome which is the same 6 metre length as most pvcs and same price on the ferries, however this was our choice, and do appreciate other peoples choice as there are an awful lot of pro pvc replies on this thread, everyone to their own and i am not bashing the pvcers enough said.

[rupert123]

bolero boy - 2013-03-29 6:34 PM

 

rupert123 - 2013-03-29 5:39 PM

 

Well I do not agree with most of the above, had a panel van for only a few weeks and made three trips in it. It is impossible however to decide for someone else and you will have to make your own mind up. The things we did not like others seem to find ok, maybe because they cannot admit to any fault with something they bought. Make sure you can cope with the side sliding door, my wife could not close it from the inside, in fact struggled with it from the outside, it really is a pain. Rear doors are ok I guess but better without, only van I know of that is properly built here is IH. Size, for us, they are just to small, ok if you spend all you time in southern Spain but anywhere else you have to live indoors on occasion and here they are just rubbish, far to cramped., The things you have to do just to make them livable with, just read some of Mel B's stuff, she has practically rebuilt hers, I could not be bothered, rather buy a van that does the job. The only thing they are good for is if it is your only vehicle and you feel the need to carry building material around on occasion, oh yes mine did a few more mpg, not so much more though. Mine was a uk van so properly equiped with a full oven and three hobs, decent shower/ toilet compartment, built in gas tank, built in avtec tv, cruise, aircon etc, but still not for us.

Rupert, what new van is on your shopping list or have you already got a replacement for the PVC?

 

Not yet but no hurry, am not planning on going away again until May. We intend to buy a used one this time, our last three have been new but cannot afford the waiting time this year. Know what we want, something about the size of your Bolero, rear lounge, able to be used as a double or two single beds, decent payload, able to carry a scooter on a rack, low profile, proper door, full cooker, decent fridge, British built, Fiat base, Alko chassis.

[snowie]

hughman - 2013-03-29 12:54 PM

 

Hi All,

 

we're hoping to downsize shortly and are looking at vans in Germany. It's a toss-up between Possl/Globecar (well built, neat design, no damp issues as it's a van, easy drive) and probably a Sunlight low profile (bigger inside, bit more kit, but, bulkier and trickier in small villages etc).

 

I'd really appreciate pros and cons to help us swing decision one way or the other :-S

 

Merry Easter to all.

 

Hello Hugh and welcome;

I thought I'd post to give an "alternative" view

 

In August 2010 I had an article published in MMM, describing our "bespoke PVC".

Having searched for a van (our first) for a couple of years, nothing suited. So we had one built to our design. Not perfect, and definately not going to suit many people with years of experience of spacious CBs, but uniquely suited to our way of "vanning"

I'd go for a van that doesn't pretend to accomodate more than 2 adults (sleeping).

I'd make some changes; and am simplifying the technical aspects as we get more experience.

We are not 6ft tall, so we were able to fit in a longitudinal bed that's wider than our double at home.

I'd be surprised if you will find a PVC that will replace your coachbuilt.

I've yet to see a PVC that impressed; particularly at the higher prices; maybe a Globecar?

 

Good luck; and think carefully,

regards

alan b

 

[flicka]

Hi hughman

A Coachbuilt fan here, so an alternative perspective to the majority of previous posts.

 

Have a look at the March 2013 edition of MMM "Compact Coachbuiltof the Year"

Hymer Compact 404 or the Burstner Brevio t600, low profiles with same configuration different badges, external colours & internal decor. (think Swift Sundance v Bessacarr E400)

Same length @ 6m & width @ 2.10m as the standard LWB PVC.

Pros v PVC -

No sliding side door ( where you usually can't use their full width.)

Rear door is lift tailgate - enabling loading rear undercover.

Very similar pricing as a PVC

[Guest JudgeMental]

The adria compact SL my favourite compact CB , twin single beds above garage.

 

You mention Sunlight motorhomes, these are relatively unknown here but found this.

 

http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/news/hymer-group-makes-bid-uk-budget-motorhome-market

 

they are a budget range, and may well be a good option...but any problems are going to be problematic unless dealer allows warranty work to be carried out here and you will have to ask the same regards yearly damp check. They are certainly cheap enough with prices under 40,000 euro

 

I hope you notice the majority who knock panel vans own CB's so they don't really understand how touring is easier and parking a doddle in comparison. We go to italy every summer and can get in any space a car can fit....Get a ding in body and a cheap and quick smart repair... And even if a roof light leaks hardly comparable to the kinds of damp issues and payload issues tha can afflict motorhomes. If cold and raining use cab doors and ovens for folk who can't cook.

 

 

If you can live with the smaller space they really make life easier and touring more enjoyable in our opinion. If you can't go for a quality compact CB....

 

 

 

 

[Mike88]

When you compare PVCs and coachbuilts in a showroom it is a no brainer. The coachbuilt gives you more space - much more space. But you do not use a motorhome in a showroom.

 

It seems to me that a coachbuilt is for those whose priority is more about lounging indoors in comparitive luxury. I spend a couple of months a year in Benidorm and I'm amazed at the time many campers spend indoors and those who use their motorhomes as static caravans where it doesn't move for months on end.

 

Usage is important. If the style of holiday is to arrive at a destination and stay on a single site and then return home a coachbuilt has advantages. I use my PVC mainly in Europe but if you use your van mainly in the UK, where you are forced to spend more time indoors, possibly a coachbuilt is better. But for me a holiday is not about indoor living. It is more about spending time out of doors so I use my PVC mainly for sleeping. During the day and evening I tend to live and eat outside under my retracticable blind and during the day I'm generally out and about . If I want to drive somewhere such as a beach car park I know that my vehicle will fit between the parking lines and the narrower width means that I can go virtually anywhere without wondering whether I'm able to park or negotiate a particularly narrow road. However, if you need more than 2 beds then a coachbuilt is probably a more viable option.

 

Rupert in earlier posts refers to the sliding door being a problem. He is of course speaking from personal experience but to some extent he doesn't get it. The sliding door is one of the best things about a PVC as you have the feeling of being outside even when indoors. You also have to bear in mind that he downsized from a coachbuilt to a small panel 5.5m van when perhaps some of the problems might not have existed had he have bought a 6m version. That extra 0.5m does make a huge difference so some of the negatives he outlines are not that relevant. I think he simply bought the wrong PVC for his needs.This isn't a dig at Rupert as he makes some valid points on a number of issues but on this occasion I merely disagree with him.

 

But the main advantage of a PVC is the fact that you do not have the worry about water leaks and the damage that can occur to coachbuilts through water ingress. This can be very serious as others on this forum will testify. The Swift forum is full of complaints about water leaks but these are deleted after a few comments are made. Having had water leaks with caravans constructed with the same materials as a coachbuilt I knew from the outset that I would never own a similarly constructed vehicle again.

 

In conclusion my best advice is to think about usage carefully. Holidaying is not only about the space inside a vehicle. If it was then a coachbuilt would be the best option.