Boxer head lights M.O.T fail

[chas]

Has anyone had experience of Boxer head lights being unable to be corrected for alignment because supposedly the plastic adjusters are unable to be turned without fear of breaking them ?

 

This is what I have been told, 05 boxer, always passes its MOT normally, supposed solution a new set of head lights. Surely the head light units are all plastic so how can they sieze up?

 

Any ideas on how to free them, before paying out for expensive units would be a great help. Thanks. :'(

[Tracker]

Take as much weight off of the back axle (don't forget to empty water & Loo as well!) and load as much weight as you can up front!

 

This should realign your headlight beams lower and you might just get away with it!

 

 

[Keithl]

chas - 2013-05-05 6:52 PM

Surely the head light units are all plastic so how can they sieze up?

'

 

Chas,

 

The head lights may appear to be entirely plastic but unfortunately the adjusting screws will be steel so over time will corrode and seize.

This was a common problem on Austin Morris Minis with 7" round headlights and you used to be able to buy new adjusters for them, but I would guess the Ducato headlights are not serviceable units so the only answer will be new lights.

 

A quick question, does your Ducato possibly have a headlamp levelling switch on the dash and if so could you use this to correct the alignment?

 

Keith.

[747]

I had a 56 reg BVpxer based Elddis. It was common to have badly adjusted headlights from the factory. I adjusted mine as they were atrocious. It was easy on a new van but might be difficult with time.

 

What you could try is to put some weight on the headlamp unit to 'push' it in the direction you need to go. As I remember, the adjusters were not really 'free turning' from new so don't be scared to use a little force. Use a socket or ring spanner as there will be less chance of damaging the hex head of the plastic bolts.

[Tracker]

If they didn't fail last year but did this year and nothing has been changed maybe you have saggy rear springs, or under inflated rear tyres - or perhaps some other underlying reason?

[lennyhb]

Keithl - 2013-05-05 7:11 PM

 

A quick question, does your Ducato possibly have a headlamp levelling switch on the dash and if so could you use this to correct the alignment?

 

Keith.

 

Levelling switch has to be in the highest position for MOT test.

[Brambles]

It is relatively easy to get the headlights out and then look at the adjustment mechanism and cogs to see what is seizing and free them off using a little silicon oil....or even spray furniture polish which comtains silicon. On removing all you really have to watch is the ball connector on outside sides of healight unit where they clip to the wings.... the wing flange bends easily. You take the grill off 1st (4 screws at top) to get to two of the mounting bolts.

 

[chas]

Thanks for the replies, the wording on the fail certificate is " nearside headlamp aim too low and too far to the left". "Offside headlamp aim too far to the right".

 

So I do not think the rear springs on the vehicle would have any bearing on the problem this was a new garage it was taken to, and because I still have time left on the MOT will go back to my other MOT station.

 

I do think this 1st tester may have been a failed forensic scientist :D and even the little spring on the tow bar lighting socket failed because it was broken. Make no mistake about it, these MOT tests are getting more and more tough to pass.

 

The strange thing about all this, is because of the lousy summer last year, the van had only covered 1800 miles from its last pass. Oh the joys of motor caravanning. *-)

[Derek Uzzell]

lennyhb - 2013-05-05 7:45 PM

 

Keithl - 2013-05-05 7:11 PM

 

A quick question, does your Ducato possibly have a headlamp levelling switch on the dash and if so could you use this to correct the alignment?

 

Keith.

 

Levelling switch has to be in the highest position for MOT test.

 

The MOT tester's guide includes the following advice:

 

"Where driver’s beam aim controls are fitted the beam aim should be tested without altering the control setting except where this would result in failure for beam aim being too low. In such cases the beam aim should be re-checked with the control set at its ‘highest’ position."

 

and

 

"Repairs must not be carried out during an MOT test; however, minor adjustments to the headlamp aim are acceptable."

 

In this case the tester apparently attempted to correct the alignment of chas's motorhome's headlamps, but was unwilling to 'force' the adjusting mechanism. Headlamp removal/inspection/lubrication (as Brambles suggests) should be the next step. There's no point replacing the headlamps if the adjusters can be freed up.

[Guest pelmetman]

Maybe the answer is to fit airbags ;-)................then you can pump up your rear end..........and they may well work out cheaper than a new pair of Fiat head lights :D

 

Plus you get the bonus of improved road handling B-)

[colin]

chas - 2013-05-06 7:21 AM

 

"Offside headlamp aim too far to the right".

 

 

For this offence you should be hung, drawn and quatered, in your wake there have been thousands of accidents as people drove off the road blinded by your lights. :D

But seriously, if your headlights are misaligned, get it sorted, going back to your old MOT station might not do you much good, IF the've got the computer system sorted it ought to flag your failure

[Dave Newell]

Tracker and Pelmetman, nobody said the aim was too high, a vehicle can fail for headlight aim being too low or too wide to either side (as in this case as evidenced by the OP's later comment). With respect I suggest you read the postings in a little more detail before commiting finger to keyboard. r any other journeys than these two, i.e. to a "placee of repair" and to a MOT station for retest afer repair. :-D :-D

 

To the OP, you do not have any time left on your old MOT as your new (failed) test overides it. Your vehicle has failed a basic roadworthiness test and therefore cannot be used on the public highway until it is corrected. The exceptions to this are that you can take it from the station where it failed to a "place of repair", this could be your home or another garage, you are not allowed to take it home and then to a "place of repair". You can also take it to an MOT station for retest, this would usually be the station that issued the failure certificate. You are not entitled to use the vehicle for any other journeys.

 

D.

[Tracker]

Dave Newell - 2013-05-06 5:43 PM

nobody said the aim was too high, a vehicle can fail for headlight aim being too low or too wide to either side (as in this case as evidenced by the OP's later comment). With respect I suggest you read the postings in a little more detail before commiting finger to keyboard.

 

With respect Dave the OP didn't specify what the fault was prior to me replying so perhaps you could check in a little more detail before firing off criticism please.

However perhaps in the light of eventual revelations I was over hasty in assuming the usual fail point - which used to be generally a beam set too high?

[Brian Kirby]

Still, it is a bit surprising that it failed in part on the dips being too low. I assume the van had the cab alignment adjuster, so if that was at its highest position and was still too low, after so small a distance travelled since the last test, it may suggest something more than just the lights is wrong, even if it apparently passed on other items.

 

It is also a bit puzzling that both were misaligned horizontally, where before they were apparently OK. Either the previous test station did the lights by "guess-and-by-God", in which case the new tester is merely picking up old, but previously undetected, faults - or possibly the new tester, or his kit, is not quite up to snuff!

 

It just seems a lot of fundamental lighting faults on which to fail after just one, low mileage, year. Otherwise, might it have had a "nudge" while parked somewhere, that has caused the misalignment?

[Dave Newell]

Tracker - 2013-05-06 6:07 PM

 

Dave Newell - 2013-05-06 5:43 PM

nobody said the aim was too high, a vehicle can fail for headlight aim being too low or too wide to either side (as in this case as evidenced by the OP's later comment). With respect I suggest you read the postings in a little more detail before commiting finger to keyboard.

 

With respect Dave the OP didn't specify what the fault was prior to me replying so perhaps you could check in a little more detail before firing off criticism please.

However perhaps in the light of eventual revelations I was over hasty in assuming the usual fail point - which used to be generally a beam set too high?

 

Trust Dickie to see my constructive comment as criticism. I will refer you to my previous comment on this subject, it explains all you need to know really.

 

Brian, in essence your summary is correct but the reality is that MOT testers are human and therefore fallible. I have known many over the years and some have a hang up over headlight alignment while others pick up on the slightest wear in suspension bushes (just to give two examples). Some testers consider that low headlamp aim is acceptable as you are not therefore going to dazzle oncoming traffic, I have personally known several who held this belief and would not fail a vehicle for too low set headlight aim. Sad but true!

 

D.

[Tracker]

Dave Newell - 2013-05-06 7:32 PM

Trust Dickie to see my constructive comment as criticism.

 

Funny how some manage to interpret the English Language to suit their own purposes isn't it - especially when Mr Knowall has posted exactly the same as that which he then accuses others of?

 

My understanding has always been that a negative comment, 'constructive' or unspecified is still effectively criticism.

[cerro]

It could be that the garage the previous year didn’t bother to test the head lights as it was a part of the test that lazy mot inspectors by passed if they were busy,( notice cars coming towards you at night with faulty lights) and the other by pass, was carrying out the test alone without a second mechanic present, proof by how many mechanics lost their licence by the ministry sending MOT officials in old cloths with a car for testing and then watching it being done The car was usually old but not a thing wrong with it. It also caught the overzealous out. No I never lost my licence in thirty years.

[Dave Newell]

Tracker - 2013-05-06 7:40 PM

 

Dave Newell - 2013-05-06 7:32 PM

Trust Dickie to see my constructive comment as criticism.

 

Funny how some manage to interpret the English Language to suit their own purposes isn't it - especially when Mr Knowall has posted exactly the same as that which he then accuses others of?

 

My understanding has always been that a negative comment, 'constructive' or unspecified is still effectively criticism.

 

What I don't get Dick is how you manage to mis-spell my surname to make it into a slur when you clearly know my real surname (clue here: its in my username!). yes I call you Dick or Dickie someties but both are regularly used abbreviations of your Christian name. How was my comment negative anyway? All I said was you should read the OP post closely before commenting, vehicles can fail for headlight aim being too low, or too wide to either side, this is a plain and simple fact, I didn.t even single you out as I mentioned Dave "Pelmetman" at the same time for the same thing.

 

For your information my surname is Newell spelled N E W E L L, it doesn't even sound like knowall. If you think my name is KNOWALL then that is your mistake and I forgive you (this time). If you think I actually do know it all then you are actually more stupid than you look! If you just think that I think that I know it all then you are again sadly mistaken, I just know that I know more than you :D .

 

D.

[Tracker]

Dave Newell - 2013-05-06 9:18 PM

What I don't get Dick is how you manage to mis-spell my surname to make it into a slur when you clearly know my real surname (clue here: its in my username!). yes I call you Dick or Dickie someties but both are regularly used abbreviations of your Christian name. How was my comment negative anyway? All I said was you should read the OP post closely before commenting, vehicles can fail for headlight aim being too low, or too wide to either side, this is a plain and simple fact, I didn.t even single you out as I mentioned Dave "Pelmetman" at the same time for the same thing.

 

For your information my surname is Newell spelled N E W E L L, it doesn't even sound like knowall. If you think my name is KNOWALL then that is your mistake and I forgive you (this time). If you think I actually do know it all then you are actually more stupid than you look! If you just think that I think that I know it all then you are again sadly mistaken, I just know that I know more than you :D .

 

D.

 

So you don't like being called Mr Knowall then - I would have thought than an allegedly clever chap like wot you are supposed to be would have noticed by now that I only use the Knowall tag when you call me Dick or Dickie which are not names that I ever use or choose to be known by - as well you know.

You know my name and if you choose to use other variations which you only do when I have the temerity to challenge you as your childish way of having a snide go at me then you must be prepared for me to do likewise.

I have politely told you this before and politely asked you to stop to no avail so if do you want me to stop being as childish as you by calling you Knowall the solution lies with you.

Of course you know more than me on matters motorhome it after all your job to know these things whereas I only have my personal experience to draw on - and when have I ever suggested that is not the case?

Now just stop defending your error of judgement in incorrectly criticising my original post and stop calling me Dick or Dickie and I'll stop calling you by the name you dislike.

Simples!!

[Dave Newell]

My apologies to the OP, my intention was never to divert from his problem. Sadly Tracker cannot bear to see any comment about himself without making it personal.

 

The solution to the siezed adjusters is to remove the headlight units and soak the adjusters in a releasing fluid, WD40 is as good as any. Give it plenty of fluid and let it soak for a few hours then try gently working the adjusters in alternate directions a little bit at a time. It may help to wire brush the threads of the adjusters if you can get to them. Once you have freed them off refit the headlights then park facing a wall at about a metre or two away from it. This bit is best done at dusk, adjust the headlights with dipped beam switched on till the horizontal top edge of the light pattern is slightly below the height of the headlight, the point at which the top edge of the light pattern starts to kick up should be roughly in line with the centre of the headlight in the horizontal plane. This should get you through the retest.

 

D.

[chas]

Hi Dave, thanks for the info on setting up the headlamps against a wall for example, it could prove useful if I had any concerns in the future.

 

One thing that I have found out though, is your advice on the validity of the MOT pass certificate which still as time left on it , the vehicle can still be used on the road even if a more recent test shows a fail !

 

This was confirmed to me by an MOT tester today, so I will be able to get the problem fixed before that date quite legally with the vehicle on the road. We live and learn eh. >:-) Cheers for your help.

[Keithl]

chas - 2013-05-07 12:03 PM

 

Hi Dave, thanks for the info on setting up the headlamps against a wall for example, it could prove useful if I had any concerns in the future.

 

One thing that I have found out though, is your advice on the validity of the MOT pass certificate which still as time left on it , the vehicle can still be used on the road even if a more recent test shows a fail !

 

This was confirmed to me by an MOT tester today, so I will be able to get the problem fixed before that date quite legally with the vehicle on the road. We live and learn eh. >:-) Cheers for your help.

 

Sorry to disagree Chas but Dave is correct. Here is a quote from GOV.UK...

 

"If your vehicle fails the test

You’ll get a ‘notification of failure’ from the test centre if your vehicle fails the test. The failure will be recorded in the secure central MOT database.

 

Until it passes a retest, you can only drive your vehicle:

 

to a pre-arranged appointment at a garage to have the repairs done

to a pre-arranged MOT test appointment

Your vehicle should be retested at the same test centre which did the original test."

 

And a link GOV.UK... Link.

 

Keith.

[chas]

Hi Kieth, Well thank you for that info, it does go to show that some testing stations and testers seem to have their own ideas about things, while us plebs just have to go by what we are told :D

[Brambles]

Ok doky, been out to look at mine because I am comfused by everyone mentioning steel screws and rust and so on. They are Nylon threaded and hex head shafts. Nylon swells in the damp and no doubt have tigtned up as a result. This is common with plastic screwed parts. If you can let them dry out a bit great, also spary where they dissapear into the unit with some silicon spray, do not use WD40, and let them soak for a day. Then gently manipulate the screw/shaft back and forth gently until it eases off. Most certainly the problem is mainly stiction between the nylon shaft and the rubber seal in the body of the headlamp. Once the stiction is broken and silicon gets to work they wil be eased off. Any stiffness now will be down to the Nylon swellingh from damp.

 

You should not need excessive force to ease the adjusters, and use a 6 sided hex socket which fits well if you can and not a 12 point ring spanner or socket.

[Dave Newell]

Brambles - 2013-05-07 1:51 PM

 

Ok doky, been out to look at mine because I am comfused by everyone mentioning steel screws and rust and so on. They are Nylon threaded and hex head shafts. Nylon swells in the damp and no doubt have tigtned up as a result. This is common with plastic screwed parts. If you can let them dry out a bit great, also spary where they dissapear into the unit with some silicon spray, do not use WD40, and let them soak for a day. Then gently manipulate the screw/shaft back and forth gently until it eases off. Most certainly the problem is mainly stiction between the nylon shaft and the rubber seal in the body of the headlamp. Once the stiction is broken and silicon gets to work they wil be eased off. Any stiffness now will be down to the Nylon swellingh from damp.

 

You should not need excessive force to ease the adjusters, and use a 6 sided hex socket which fits well if you can and not a 12 point ring spanner or socket.

 

My apologies to the OP, Brambles is spot on they are plastic adjusters so do as he says and don't use WD40. I was thinking of the previous generation Boxer which I think had metal adjusters. See, Dave "Knowall" doesn't "Knowall" at all :D

 

D.