payload help

[dirk24]

Hi new to the forum and looking to buy our 1st van, how can I find out the weight of a van, we are thinking of getting a swift lifestyle 530 we know the mtplm is 3300 kg ..any help would be much appreciated

 

Thanks

Derek

[nowtelse2do]

Hi Derek.

 

Welcome to the forum. Are you buying new or 2nd hand, if new beware of what the salesman tells you, if 2nd hand the same applies, they are after all trying to sell the van. I'm sure someone will come along later to help you with that particular model.

 

The only way you will know for sure is to have it weighed when empty apart from you and 2-3 gallon of fuel in it, this is assuming you know your own weight.

 

Dave

[Keithl]

Hi Derek,

 

Older examples appear to suffer from very low payload until GVW was raised circa 2008.

 

Have a look at this thread from late 2008... Link.

 

Keith.

[dirk24]

Thanks for all the help its just that we are a bit unsure don't want to buy one (second hand ) and find out we can not carry enough stuff

[Guest JudgeMental]

Welcome Derek....at last someone with the foresight of asking the important questions, and not listening to salesmans BS and parting with their hard earned........You will be surprised how many get suckered into purchasing overweight campers.

 

It's quite simple, make a weigh bridge ticket a condition of purchase..dealer makes excuses...simply go elsewhere.

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Welcome Derek....at last someone with the foresight of asking the important questions, and not listening to salesmans BS and parting with their hard earned........You will be surprised how many get suckered into purchasing overweight campers.

 

It's quite simple, make a weigh bridge ticket a condition of purchase..dealer makes excuses...simply go elsewhere.

 

 

[rupert123]

dirk24 - 2013-05-17 8:46 PM

 

Hi new to the forum and looking to buy our 1st van, how can I find out the weight of a van, we are thinking of getting a swift lifestyle 530 we know the mtplm is 3300 kg ..any help would be much appreciated

 

Thanks

Derek

I think this is the same as the Sundance 530lp. We had a 2008 one and payload quoted by Swift was just over 500kg. This was pretty accurate and we managed to carry a 100kg scooter on the back with no problem. You can get the van uprated to 3500kg which will also give an uprated rear axle weight of 100kg. Good van, plenty of payload. If it is a new one the payload is a little bit less but still fine.

[Brian Kirby]

Yes, yes, yes, but! When buying a used van one cannot know the payload because one is unlikely to know what extras have been added by the previous owner/s, or what weight they are. It is also possible that the original buyer bought chassis options, for example a larger engine or cab aircon, that reduces payload. Also, the definition of payload, and the way it is calculated, have changed over the years, so the claimed mass in running order (MIRO) may well be somewhat misleading.

 

Eddie's (Judgemental's) suggestion is the only foolproof way to go, just ask the dealer to get it weighed, either before you put down a deposit, or before you complete the deal, on the basis that your deposit is refundable if the payload is less than the dealer claims. Otherwise, look elsewhere.

 

In case you don't already know, MIRO should be the weight of the empty van with all standard tools (jack and wheelbrace, etc) present, and should include the fresh water tank, the gas reservoirs, and the fuel tank all at 90% capacity, plus a driver at a nominal 75kg weight. However, I think it more practical to calculate on the basis that the reservoirs are full. Some manufacturers quote figures with some reservoirs 100% full, and a handful with all reservoirs 100% full. Current catalogue figures may not provide a reliable guide to the MIRO of older vans.

 

Water weighs 1kg per litre, and diesel about 0.85kg per litre. Also be aware that a full 13kg gas cylinder actually weighs about 28kg - the difference being the weight of the cylinder itself. Not sure on the 7kg cylinders, but assume about 15kg full. The difference between MIRO as revealed by the weighbridge (or as adjusted above if you have confidence in any quoted figures) and the plated MAM (in your case 3,300kg) is your payload.

 

Oh, and do insist that it is damp checked before you buy, and that you get the record of the check!

[goldi]

Afternoon all,

 

 

You would think that dealers would go out and buy some weigh pads so that they could put the indicative wight on the windsreen or factsheet, that way they might give the public some idea that they know what they are selling.

norm

[Guest JudgeMental]

goldi - 2013-05-18 5:02 PM

 

Afternoon all,

 

 

You would think that dealers would go out and buy some weigh pads so that they could put the indicative wight on the windsreen or factsheet, that way they might give the public some idea that they know what they are selling.

norm

 

yeah...but! What would they do with all the overweight rubbish they want to shift, if they were honest brokers....

[dirk24]

Thanks for all the replies, any other hints , tips and helpful info would be much appreciated as we are only at the viewing stage at the minute, the wife has decided on a layout of end kitchen and that's as far as we've got.

 

We made the mistake of going to a show 1st looking at the new ones so now nothing else measures up, it could be a long search *-)

 

Thanks again

derek

[dirk24]

Thanks for all the replies, any other hints , tips and helpful info would be much appreciated as we are only at the viewing stage at the minute, the wife has decided on a layout of end kitchen and that's as far as we've got.

 

We made the mistake of going to a show 1st looking at the new ones so now nothing else measures up, it could be a long search *-)

 

Thanks again

derek

[BGD]

dirk24 - 2013-05-18 7:59 PM

 

Thanks for all the replies, any other hints , tips and helpful info would be much appreciated as we are only at the viewing stage at the minute, the wife has decided on a layout of end kitchen and that's as far as we've got.

 

We made the mistake of going to a show 1st looking at the new ones so now nothing else measures up, it could be a long search *-)

 

Thanks again

derek

 

 

Suggestion. Buy an older, cheapo motorhome to start with.

 

You'll be risking a helluva lot less of your hard-earned savings.

You'll be INCREDIBLY lucky if the first MH that you buy has the layout & features that you actually find you want in it once you've been living in the thing for a few tours. Ergo, first van usually gets part exchanged for second van fairly quickly.

The depreciation on a brand-new motorhome over say one year is utterly eye-watering. Do you REALLY want to throw maybe 6, 7 or £8,000 straight down the drain when you want to swop it for the mark two version?

Additionally, bran new MH's are famous for the number of faults/niggles, that mean repeated trips back to the Dealer to get put right. With a second hand MH, those will have been sorted, and it'll probably have been fitted wit a lot of toys/extras at great expense by the previous owner(s).

Older MH's atre, by and large, simpler. There's less to go wrong. There's no catalytic converter to get stolen, no EGR valve to fail, almost no computerisation. Much cheaper to service and repair.

 

You get much more bangs-per-buck with a used motorhome. A lot less money buys you a much better specified chassis-cab and interior.

 

Just a thought...............because it's what we did and I thank heavens every time I look back on that early-learning curve.

 

[Dave225]

You mention it is your 1st van but you do not say if it is also your 1st foray into camping. I suspect we all are assuming you have already been a camper with either tent or caravan and so know all the ups and downs of the lifestyle. If not......................be very very careful. Forecourts are full of motorhomes with low mileages that have been bought by people who decided without thinking that this was the chosen lifestyle, yet had never camped in their lives. After 1 or 2 trips and perpetual arguments they returned to booking hotels etc and sold the thing at a big loss.

 

 

If you have never camped before and fancy it then hire a van for a week and try it out. Better a rental charge than a high loss.

 

If you have done camping before then again think carefully. Motorhomes have on average less living space than caravans so if setting up on site is your chosen thing then maybe not a good choice. If touring many places then yes, it is a good choice but beware of getting too big a rig as this will cramp where you want to go.

 

As for actually looking at the market remember that there are as many 'dogs' out there as good buys. Always try to find out why it is for sale as nobody sells their pride and joy unless they really have to. Again, I refer to above where some people have bought recklessly and maybe you can get a bargain. Again, as with anything price is no indicator of a bargain, if it is cheap, then there is usually a reason. You do not want to resell cheap as well. Also beware the 'slight damage' comment as body repairs can be atrociously expensive. Also beware underpowered models as these were sold as cheapies, and it shows. Older models can be fine but will never have the oomph that newer models have so be prepared to chug along in the slow lane with the trucks. Older Transits were never speedy and old Mercedes are lucky to get above 50 mph, I know as I had one.

 

Take your time and good luck.

[colin]

As above, if your heart is set on buying a new(ish) van, then hire one first to find out the pitfalls.

[derek pringle]

Brian Kirby - 2013-05-18 3:44 PM

 

Yes, yes, yes, but! When buying a used van one cannot know the payload because one is unlikely to know what extras have been added by the previous owner/s, or what weight they are. It is also possible that the original buyer bought chassis options, for example a larger engine or cab aircon, that reduces payload. Also, the definition of payload, and the way it is calculated, have changed over the years, so the claimed mass in running order (MIRO) may well be somewhat misleading.

 

Eddie's (Judgemental's) suggestion is the only foolproof way to go, just ask the dealer to get it weighed, either before you put down a deposit, or before you complete the deal, on the basis that your deposit is refundable if the payload is less than the dealer claims. Otherwise, look elsewhere.

 

In case you don't already know, MIRO should be the weight of the empty van with all standard tools (jack and wheelbrace, etc) present, and should include the fresh water tank, the gas reservoirs, and the fuel tank all at 90% capacity, plus a driver at a nominal 75kg weight. However, I think it more practical to calculate on the basis that the reservoirs are full. Some manufacturers quote figures with some reservoirs 100% full, and a handful with all reservoirs 100% full. Current catalogue figures may not provide a reliable guide to the MIRO of older vans.

 

Water weighs 1kg per litre, and diesel about 0.85kg per litre. Also be aware that a full 13kg gas cylinder actually weighs about 28kg - the difference being the weight of the cylinder itself. Not sure on the 7kg cylinders, but assume about 15kg full. The difference between MIRO as revealed by the weighbridge (or as adjusted above if you have confidence in any quoted figures) and the plated MAM (in your case 3,300kg) is your payload.

 

Oh, and do insist that it is damp checked before you buy, and that you get the record of the check!

 

Brian,

As usual it is hard to argue against what you are saying ,but what happens in the case of new models where buyers order in advance and it is not possible to get wieght established?. On a second hand van you can insist the dealer supply a ticket ala Eddies post.

cheers

derek

[Guest JudgeMental]

derek pringle - 2013-05-20 8:56 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2013-05-18 3:44 PM

 

Yes, yes, yes, but! When buying a used van one cannot know the payload because one is unlikely to know what extras have been added by the previous owner/s, or what weight they are. It is also possible that the original buyer bought chassis options, for example a larger engine or cab aircon, that reduces payload. Also, the definition of payload, and the way it is calculated, have changed over the years, so the claimed mass in running order (MIRO) may well be somewhat misleading.

 

Eddie's (Judgemental's) suggestion is the only foolproof way to go, just ask the dealer to get it weighed, either before you put down a deposit, or before you complete the deal, on the basis that your deposit is refundable if the payload is less than the dealer claims. Otherwise, look elsewhere.

 

In case you don't already know, MIRO should be the weight of the empty van with all standard tools (jack and wheelbrace, etc) present, and should include the fresh water tank, the gas reservoirs, and the fuel tank all at 90% capacity, plus a driver at a nominal 75kg weight. However, I think it more practical to calculate on the basis that the reservoirs are full. Some manufacturers quote figures with some reservoirs 100% full, and a handful with all reservoirs 100% full. Current catalogue figures may not provide a reliable guide to the MIRO of older vans.

 

Water weighs 1kg per litre, and diesel about 0.85kg per litre. Also be aware that a full 13kg gas cylinder actually weighs about 28kg - the difference being the weight of the cylinder itself. Not sure on the 7kg cylinders, but assume about 15kg full. The difference between MIRO as revealed by the weighbridge (or as adjusted above if you have confidence in any quoted figures) and the plated MAM (in your case 3,300kg) is your payload.

 

Oh, and do insist that it is damp checked before you buy, and that you get the record of the check!

 

Brian,

As usual it is hard to argue against what you are saying ,but what happens in the case of new models where buyers order in advance and it is not possible to get wieght established?. On a second hand van you can insist the dealer supply a ticket ala Eddies post.

cheers

derek

 

 

Just make sure you choose a trustworthy manufacturer, and one using modern construction methods (not wood) also look for proper tests and reviews..German mags very good at testing vehicles. Our euramobil was spot on when it arrived and I weighed it.......

[lennyhb]

As others have said well worth hiring first.

We were very experienced campers both tents and caravans over many years, we hired a couple of vans before buying and found out what we thought was an ideal layout, however in practice we just didn't get on with what we thought was our ideal layout.

In use a Motorhome we found was quite different to camping or caravanning, so well worth the hire cost to find out certainly saved a lot of grief and cash.

[Brian Kirby]

derek pringle - 2013-05-20 8:56 AM.......................Brian,

As usual it is hard to argue against what you are saying ,but what happens in the case of new models where buyers order in advance and it is not possible to get wieght established?. On a second hand van you can insist the dealer supply a ticket ala Eddies post.

cheers

derek

The model the OP is considering is no longer made, so this won't apply to his question, but if buying new the manufacturer will state the MIRO, and should also state clearly how that is calculated. This should be accurate within 5% (which sounds little, but in relation to payload can be significant). One's starting point has to be to assume that the new van will be 5% overweight. One then has to adjust the MIRO to account for any extras/options that are required. One can then arrive at a payload figure that may be a bit pessimistic, but should not be optimistic. If the resulting figure is workable, the van should offer at least that much payload on delivery.

 

Not easy for a first timer, as getting the necessary information on weights is not always easy. A good dealer should be able to help, so you next question will be how does one find a good dealer? Answer, ask the next man! :-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

Just read a review from a german mag, as they weigh the van with full tanks and 2 normal gas bottles so a far more reliable indication...+ really dont think the 5% a concern with modern non wood build...

[Brian Kirby]

JudgeMental - 2013-05-20 9:28 PM

 

Just read a review from a german mag, as they weigh the van with full tanks and 2 normal gas bottles so a far more reliable indication...+ really dont think the 5% a concern with modern non wood build...

My point regarding the 5% tolerance is the way such things tend to get exploited.

 

Some years back there was an argument over the water content of pre-packaged meat, some of which contained quite a lot of cheap water, rather than full measure of expensive meat. The food industry argued, unfortunately with success, that it was impossible to prepare meat without some water being included. It was agreed, I think, that 5% water content should be allowed. If you buy your meat in supermarkets, have a look at the water content on the packages. Interesting!

 

So with vans. The rules for declaring MIRO should have stated that the published figure would be the maximum. All vans would thereafter have weighed very little less, and none could have weighed more, so published payloads could be relied upon. It's just a way to focus minds. If a tolerance is given, one by one, they will find that in some miraculous way nearly all their vans come out just that bit heavy! Or am I just being a cynic again? :-D

[flicka]

JudgeMental - 2013-05-20 9:28 PM

 

Just read a review from a german mag, as they weigh the van with full tanks and 2 normal gas bottles so a far more reliable indication...+ really dont think the 5% a concern with modern non wood build...

 

Sorry Eddie, but I don't think you will find any UK motorhomes reviewed in any German mags, as no UK manufacturer AFAIA has a mainland Europe dealer.

[derek pringle]

Thanks Brian,thanks Eddie

 

derek

[rupert123]

Brian Swift do still make the 530lp, same van. I gave all the weights in an early post on this thread, which were accurate for a 530lp from when they upgraded it to 3300kg. To repeat myself, Swift have the payload for vans from 2008 to around 2010, after this it reduced by a 100kg, as 500kg. They give the payload with all the normal stuff deducted, i.e. all tanks and gas at 90% full, 75kg driver etc. I found this to be accurate and have no reason to think any 530LP built around this time would vary by much.