Heyloft Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I've traded in a large and nice Dethleffs for a Autocruise Accent (2011) as I needed a smaller van to get full use out of it. In the Dethleffs, if the habitation battery was running low, I could run the engine for a while and charge the batteries without the 12V side shutting down. In the Autocruise, as soon as I start the engine, the 12V in the van part s**t's down. No power to the TV, no lights, nothing. The controls panel doesn't respond either except for 2 LED's (1 for cab battery & 1 for habitation battery) showing they're charging. Not what I expected, or really want. Any ideas? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 You don't say what system is fitted to your motorhome. Is it a Sargent? If so you could give them a ring for some advice, they are very good with assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 You don't say what system is fitted to your motorhome. Is it a Sargent? If so you could give them a ring for some advice, they are very good with assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Hi Heyloft, Unfortunately it's the 'British' way of doing things. There is a requirement for habitation electrics to not interfere with the base vehicle electrics when driving and the simple way to do this is to switch them off. Therefore every time you start the engine the habitation electrics will switch off. The downside is that this is normally done as an integral part of the habitation electrics and if you disable it you are also likely to disable the split charge. As Roland suggests, if you do have a Sargent system it may still be worth calling them as they are usually very helpful. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 All our Autosleepers have done the same as your Autocruise, the reason quoted being to avoid the problem of forgetting to turn stuff off before driving away. If your van is like ours, there will be an isolating relay which is used to cut the power, so all you would need to do, is locate it and disconnect it in some way (pull out fuse, pull out relay, or pull wire off relay to stop it operating). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I hadn't really thought about it before but yes,the habitation electrics of our previous Compass(and I dare say the Duetto before that),did switch off ,once the engine was running...whereas our current Chausson doesn't... As for "running" the engine to charge up the leisure battery....Well how long do you run it for?.. because I thought I had read posts on here(submitted by folk "knowledgeable" in the subject),that with a "standard" charging set-up, you need to drive for hours in order to put a decent amount of charge back into the leisure battery? :-S (..it's usually at that point that the threads lose me, as they start to get all "techy"! (lol) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Does this mean the leisure batteries don't charge while driving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-07-11 9:47 AM Does this mean the leisure batteries don't charge while driving? They did on our Compass and Duetto, Eddie. I think it's just more a case of switching hab' "distraction" stuff off..(lights,TV oulet etc?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyloft Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 Thanks for all of your input guys... I might not want to start the engine because of battery drain I might want to start the engine to run the cab aircon to cool the van down while sitting in it. But as it shuts the 12V off, it is no help. Yes it is a Sargent system, so perhaps i'll make contact with them initially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 You should post your query on the Swift-Talk forum where Sargent are an ever present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Interesting post.... you dont want to start the van as it drains the battery but you want to start the van to charge the battery.............................. Sounds like you need a solar panel with electronics that allow it to charge both cab and habitation batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Chris's solution is the best one which is what I have. I think not having habitation electrics on with the engine running is a defiantly a British thing probably a hangover from caravans, like a lot of things in British Motorhomes are. 90% of the time I drive the van with the habitation electrics on because I nearly always forget to turn them off. Please don't run your engine when camped if in site of another unit, nothing more annoying than someone sitting there with their engine running disturbing the peace because they can't be bother to kit their vehicle out properly. A couple of years ago van next to me started their engine at five in the morning, they had flat battery heating wouldn't run and their dogs were cold. When I surfaced several hours later I told him what I thought of him.>:-) >:-) >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Apart from the anti-social aspect of running the engine merely to run the cab aircon, if your Autocruise has a diesel particulate filter (DPF) it may not be a good idea to do this, as I understand DPFs don't like the engine being left idling for extended periods and tend to soot up. Because idling in this way is not followed by normal driving the accumulating soot does not "burn off" properly and the DPF cannot subsequently regenerate. This is equally true for running the engine to re-charge the hab battery. Result? Possibly a new DPF! So potentially an very expensive way to keep cool (or to charge the battery). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Hi Heyloft, we've got a 2012 Autocruise Accent and I can confirm that this is normal - it drives me nuts too! I get fed up of having to remember to turn the blooming water pump on every time we stop so I can use the loo! >:-( Previous to this we had a Rapido, then a Rimor followed by a Chausson and in all of them the habitation electrics stayed on when the engine was started, we too didn't realise that this was different when we bought a 'British' van. The Control Panel is indeed made by Sargents but I don't know if there is anything that can be done to remove the automatic 'isolation' of the habitation electrics ... if you DO find out let me know please. :-> The below is a thread which I started when we bought our Accent last year which might be of interest to you: https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Oh-heck-Accent-on-an-expensive-day-/28634/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyloft Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 More info excellent, thank you I am waiting to hear from Sargents, it must be possible to disable the feature. LennyhB & Brian Kirby..... your input is welcome and I guess you are trying to be helpful, but this is a technical question about the rear being isolated completely when the engine is running, no feed for TV, no feed for lights, nothing. Anyone sitting in the rear is in complete darkness, not as simple as wanting to just run the aircon. I would never be as socially inadequate as running the engine where it may disturb others on a site and I have never bought the DPF argument when idling, but even if true, the consequences don't bother me. Driving across Europe in the dark, I would like those in the rear to be able to read and watch TV while I look out for the over enthusiastic Gendarme. I don't want to have to turn the engine off at night if I stop so that SWMBO can put a light on to grab me well earned, high calorific nourishment from the fridge. MelB I will let you know as soon as I find a solution, provided you indemnify me from any loss of DPF or inadvertent weight gain by having better access to the fridge contents :-o :-o :-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 An educated guess it will have a relay that isolates the habitation electrics which will have the coil either powered from the "D" terminal on the alternator or a live ignition feed, so with basic electrical knowledge should easy to disable. The relay may be inside the Sargent unit or it could be external, just make sure if the same relay feeds the fridge or split charge circuit you don't disable these as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyloft Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 Lenny, my first thought was the D+ or Live feed as you suggest, but that would cause the Sargent charger not to run either.... As it only seems to cut the rear when the engine is running I would suggest it detects the D+ I think I need to leave the D+ link or live feed alone and concentrate on the Sargent. Let it detect the D+, let it allow charging, but stop it cutting the 12V circuits ?? Well that's the plan. I just need to speak to Sargent and/or find their wiring diagrams. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Hi Heyloft, You can download wiring diagrams from The Sargent website... Link They only go to 2010 but I would imagine not too many things should have changed between 2010 and your 'van at 2011. Unfortunately they don't seem to go into enough detail on charging relays and habitation isolation relays for what you want so I think you may have to speak to someone there directly. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I only mentioned the "D" terminal as this would be the logical way if you can follow the wiring to find the relay /relays that do the switching. Obviously if you disconnect the wire from the "D" terminal you would disable the 12volts for the fridge & the split charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 To quote from a 2012 forum thread... "Fitting a relay that isolates the 12V habitation elements when the vehicle's motor is started is (as far as I'm aware) peculiar to UK motorhome manufacturers and goes back to the mid-1990s when there was concern over potential EMC (Electro-Magnetic Compatibility) conflicts. I recall discussing it with Dave Thomas a long time ago when he was designing Auto-Trail models and he was sceptical then that the policy had genuine merit. Nevertheless, UK motorhome manufacturers still insist on doing it. One thing it does do, of course, is minimise the risk that a motorhome's critical electrical systems might be compromised by an enthusiastic DIYer having installed some weird and wonderful 12V equipment in the habitation area." It's validity is even more debatable nowadays. Historically, fridges have needed to run on 12V when a motorhome is being driven, but there's an increasing tendency for the living-area's heating system to also be usable 'en route'. Disabling the shut-off feature is often easy to do, (as spospe suggests) just involving twiddling with a simple relay. Charging of the leisure-battery via the motorhome's alternator should not be affected by the shutting-off feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Hi again Heyloft. Can I just ask....Have you actually used the van much in anger yet? ...or is this just a perceived "short fall"...that in reality is little more than something that you'd just get used to?...like Mel, being "fed up" with having to turn the pump on "every time" she stops and needs to loo... (lol) (..I know we only travel as a couple but I always turn our hab' control panel off when we're travelling..and when we exit the van...I can't see why people would drive around for hours on end with it on,when it's not needed..? :-S) I ask because you started off by saying you wanted to be able to run the engine, in order to charge you batteries....and when it was suggested that charging them that way,probably wasn't that beneficial,you then switched to wanting to run the engine to power the air con .. ...but when Brian pointed out, that probably wouldn't be healthy for your DPF,you then(as well as telling us you didn't care anyway!),switched reasons again, this time to wanting the rear passengers to be able to watch TV and have lights on/ whilst you're travelling... (..although I would've thought that if it's dark enough outside to need interior lights on,those lights are just going to cause a distraction to the driver..by turning the inside of the windscreen into a "mirror").. So it does read a little,as if you may be anticipating "issues", rather than them being something you're actually having problems with...... Although I would've thought it'd be an easy enough "feature" to bypass anyway....;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyloft Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 Pepe, I see what you are saying, but no not anticipated 'wants'... I was simply to idle to list them all in the first place. I do not want to accept and get used to the complete lack of power to the rear, no lights, no tv, no aircon and a draining battery while watching the QVC Laidies Nighwear programmes without the abillity to run the engine to stop draining the battery. The DPF item isn't helpful in this instance, nor is any suggestion that the demise of the 1 legged, homosexual, albino Panda that will result from my selfish emmsiions of uneccessary CO2. I will chasing Sargent on Monday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Heyloft - 2013-07-11 10:44 PM More info excellent, thank you I am waiting to hear from Sargents, it must be possible to disable the feature. LennyhB & Brian Kirby..... your input is welcome and I guess you are trying to be helpful, .................................. Lenny will no doubt speak for himself, but for my part yes, intended to be helpful - in that it might save you needing to fork out for a new DPF. Not cheap, I understand. Regarding your intended use, you did say this "I might not want to start the engine because of battery drain I might want to start the engine to run the cab aircon to cool the van down while sitting in it." To me, that sounds like one reason you might want to leave the engine running. Sadly, some folk don't realise how much noise their vehicles emit, because they stay inside while the noise mostly stays outside. No personal criticism was intended but, in all of our interests, still worth referring to, IMO, just in case you may not have been aware. After all, we don't know any more about you than you tell us! I fully understand your wish to have the habitation electrics available with the engine running, and hope you are able to find a resolution to this problem. I'm pretty sure that just disconnecting the switching feed to the isolating relay, as suggested above, will gain you a simple, and readily reversible, fix to the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Heyloft - 2013-07-12 5:20 PM I do not want to accept and get used to the complete lack of power to the rear, no lights, no tv, no aircon and a draining battery while watching the QVC Laidies Nighwear programmes without the abillity to run the engine to stop draining the battery. Heyloft, Please excuse me if I am missing your point but I read your last post as saying that you want to run your engine to have your cab aircon on while you watch TV and have the lights on without draining your leisure battery. Surely the purpose of a leisure battery is to power items without the need to run the engine and then it gets recharged the next time you drive. (and yes I know this won't run cab aircon). If you really are this paranoid about needing your aircon on and not discharging your leisure battery with your TV and lights then it sounds to me like you need a generator and roof mounted aircon. Then you can run your aircon and watch your TV to your hearts content. Just don't expect to make any friends on any campsite or rally field if you take EITHER approach! Campers view any disturbance of the peace very seriously >:-) Just my view on the situation and I stand to be corrected and offer my apologies if I have misread your last post. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Well I don't think any of your reasons for changing are valid, but then thats easy for me to say as my present and past vans all have 12v when running :D We have option of switching off 12v when running but rarely do, and I'll often fire up the engine whilst "cabin crew switch doors to manual", would need a head torch if doing that in dark. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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