Degree in Caravan Studies

[Gwendolyn]

Ok so here’s a topic to get you going – more of an Old Style [as I think of it] Matter of Debate on Chatterbox. In other words, one from Public Sector Workers / Public Sector Pensions / Useless Degrees…

 

This come under the latter heading I think.

 

From January 2014, it is going to be possible to do a Foundation Degree at Kingston Maurward College in Tourism Park Management [Caravan Club Warden???] Now is that worse than Media Studies????

 

Off you go…..

 

Cheers

Gwen

 

[Guest Had Enough]

Gwendolyn - 2013-08-06 9:33 PM

 

Ok so here’s a topic to get you going – more of an Old Style [as I think of it] Matter of Debate on Chatterbox. In other words, one from Public Sector Workers / Public Sector Pensions / Useless Degrees…

 

This come under the latter heading I think.

 

From January 2014, it is going to be possible to do a Foundation Degree at Kingston Maurward College in Tourism Park Management [Caravan Club Warden???] Now is that worse than Media Studies????

 

Off you go…..

 

Cheers

Gwen

 

What's wrong with that? It's a serious course with proper qualifications where BSc has been replaced with Parks and Vacation Competence (PVC).

 

PVC is the first or inferior degree and the equivalent of a doctorate (PhD) is now Recreational Valedictorian (RV).

[malc d]

Gwendolyn - 2013-08-06 9:33 PM

 

 

From January 2014, it is going to be possible to do a Foundation Degree at Kingston Maurward College in Tourism Park Management [Caravan Club Warden???] Now is that worse than Media Studies????

 

Off you go…..

 

Cheers

Gwen

 

Bring it on .

 

Well as the country is slowly heading towards producing nothing any more, degrees in the ' service sector' will become more important.

 

At least a Tourism Park Management Executive will be more useful than a Brand Consultant,

a PR Guru, or a Diversity Manager.

 

:-D

[Guest Had Enough]

malc d - 2013-08-07 9:46 AM

 

 

Well as the country is slowly heading towards producing nothing any more, degrees in the ' service sector' will become more important.

 

:-D

 

Nissan in Sunderland produces more cars than the whole of Italy. One in three Ford cars in the entire world is powered by engines made by Ford in the UK.

 

http://realbusiness.co.uk/article/22618-top-gear-is-right-uk-manufacturing-isnt-dead

 

From the web:

 

Britain is the world's fifth largest trading nation.

 

Machinery and transport, manufactured goods and chemicals, and steel are Britain's largest export earners. Since the 1970s, oil has contributed significantly to Britain's overseas trade, both in exports and a reduced need to import oil.

 

The UK's pharmaceuticals industry is the world's third largest exporter of medicines.

 

Britain is also a major supplier of plastics, cars, motorbikes, films, music, aerospace products, alcohol, and finally, electrical and electronic equipment such as chips in Ipods, military equipment, food products, and clothes.

 

Britain is responsible for 10 per cent of the world's export of services, including banking, insurance, stockbroking, consultancy and computer programming.

 

This myth that Britain no longer makes anything really must be challenged. It's simply not true.

 

 

[malc d]

Had Enough - 2013-08-07 9:54 AM

 

malc d - 2013-08-07 9:46 AM

 

 

Well as the country is slowly heading towards producing nothing any more, degrees in the ' service sector' will become more important.

 

:-D

 

Nissan in Sunderland produces more cars than the whole of Italy. One in three Ford cars in the entire world is powered by engines made by Ford in the UK.

 

 

 

 

But the ' people ' don't make much any more. It's all being done by robots.

 

At one time the Ford plant at Dagenham employed 43,000 people - now it's 3000.

 

Presumably the other 40,000 are now in call centres, coffee shops or MacDonalds.

 

 

:-(

[Guest Had Enough]

malc d - 2013-08-07 2:19 PM

 

Had Enough - 2013-08-07 9:54 AM

 

malc d - 2013-08-07 9:46 AM

 

 

Well as the country is slowly heading towards producing nothing any more, degrees in the ' service sector' will become more important.

 

:-D

 

Nissan in Sunderland produces more cars than the whole of Italy. One in three Ford cars in the entire world is powered by engines made by Ford in the UK.

 

 

 

 

But the ' people ' don't make much any more. It's all being done by robots.

 

At one time the Ford plant at Dagenham employed 43,000 people - now it's 3000.

 

Presumably the other 40,000 are now in call centres, coffee shops or MacDonalds.

 

 

:-(

 

No, they're in Sunderland at Nissan, Derby at Toyota, Swindon at Honda, Oxford at BMW/Mini, and the Jaguar and Land Rover factories and Ellesmere Port (Vauxhall).

 

And they're at JCB and the burgeoning micro-chip and pharmaceutical industries.

 

But what's wrong with McDonald's and call centres? Our service industries are a massive contributor and employer, why would you wish to denigrate them? Where would you rather your son worked, down a coal mine or in a call centre?

 

But I'm not really sure what your point is. You came out with the usual fable that Britain doesn't make things any more, that's not true! It's the fifth biggest trading nation in the world and I think the sixth biggest exporter.

 

Do me one favour, look at the electronics industry where British firms power the majority of the world's smart phones. Perhaps that doesn't count? After all that's not real man's work is it?

 

Things have moved on, we're not mining coal now but we're exporting drugs and electronics to name just two.

 

It is really unfair to trot out this myth, when so many British firms are doing so well and yes, I know that many car factories aren't British-owned, but they're here creating employment and exporting their cars all over the world.

 

Cars made in the UK are exported to Japan!

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Its us exporters that are making Britain Great again :D...........

[nowtelse2do]

I'm doing a PhD in Flagging and Kerbing (^) :-D

 

Then I'll be looking for a job with zero hours.

 

Dave

[John 47]

Gwendolyn - 2013-08-06 9:33 PM

 

Ok so here’s a topic to get you going – more of an Old Style [as I think of it] Matter of Debate on Chatterbox. In other words, one from Public Sector Workers / Public Sector Pensions / Useless Degrees…

 

This come under the latter heading I think.

 

From January 2014, it is going to be possible to do a Foundation Degree at Kingston Maurward College in Tourism Park Management [Caravan Club Warden???] Now is that worse than Media Studies????

 

Off you go…..

 

Cheers

Gwen

 

Hi

 

I don't know what your background is but for the benefit of anybody who has not been through a University education the important thing is not so much the topic of study but the method of study. Very few degrees train you for a specific job or task without further training. What they do is teach you how to construct an argument, how to research a topic, how to identify fact and opinion, how to make a point, how to weigh up a debate, how to analyse, how to draw conclusions and so on and so on. It therefore matters very little if the degree is in ancient history, rocket science or theatre studies; employers are looking for people who have the skills they are looking for, not people who can hold a particular set of facts in their head.

 

It is thus very easy to belittle degrees such as media studies and tourism but it is usually a criticism that is undeserved. A degree in tourism from a good University can be worth more than a degree in physics from an average one.

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-08-07 5:36 PM

 

Gwendolyn - 2013-08-06 9:33 PM

 

Ok so here’s a topic to get you going – more of an Old Style [as I think of it] Matter of Debate on Chatterbox. In other words, one from Public Sector Workers / Public Sector Pensions / Useless Degrees…

 

This come under the latter heading I think.

 

From January 2014, it is going to be possible to do a Foundation Degree at Kingston Maurward College in Tourism Park Management [Caravan Club Warden???] Now is that worse than Media Studies????

 

Off you go…..

 

Cheers

Gwen

 

Hi

 

I don't know what your background is but for the benefit of anybody who has not been through a University education the important thing is not so much the topic of study but the method of study. Very few degrees train you for a specific job or task without further training. What they do is teach you how to construct an argument, how to research a topic, how to identify fact and opinion, how to make a point, how to weigh up a debate, how to analyse, how to draw conclusions and so on and so on. It therefore matters very little if the degree is in ancient history, rocket science or theatre studies; employers are looking for people who have the skills they are looking for, not people who can hold a particular set of facts in their head.

 

It is thus very easy to belittle degrees such as media studies and tourism but it is usually a criticism that is undeserved. A degree in tourism from a good University can be worth more than a degree in physics from an average one.

 

I prefer the degree I got from the university of life from her madges navy ;-)......................It taught me loads B-) ..............but most importantly that the education system is not as wonderful as they would have the unthinking think >:-)

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-08-07 6:49 PM

 

I prefer the degree I got from the university of life from her madges navy ;-)......................It taught me loads B-) ..............but most importantly that the education system is not as wonderful as they would have the unthinking think >:-)

 

Each to their own but I find it interesting that I'm not criticising yours; it is you that is criticising mine! (lol)

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-08-07 8:06 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-08-07 6:49 PM

 

I prefer the degree I got from the university of life from her madges navy ;-)......................It taught me loads B-) ..............but most importantly that the education system is not as wonderful as they would have the unthinking think >:-)

 

Each to their own but I find it interesting that I'm not criticising yours; it is you that is criticising mine! (lol)

 

Not quite John ;-)..................my beef is with the education industry *-).............who value academia above anything else..................personally I value someone who can actually do the job.............above....... someone who can write a thesis on how to do the job *-)

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-08-07 8:28 PM

 

 

Not quite John ;-)..................my beef is with the education industry *-).............who value academia above anything else..................personally I value someone who can actually do the job.............above....... someone who can write a thesis on how to do the job *-)

 

What is this mythical "education industry" you speak of? Name me one person who would prefer someone who can write a thesis on how to do a job over someone who can do the job.

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-08-07 8:33 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-08-07 8:28 PM

 

 

Not quite John ;-)..................my beef is with the education industry *-).............who value academia above anything else..................personally I value someone who can actually do the job.............above....... someone who can write a thesis on how to do the job *-)

 

What is this mythical "education industry" you speak of? Name me one person who would prefer someone who can write a thesis on how to do a job over someone who can do the job.

 

Public sector ;-)

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-08-07 8:44 PM

Public sector ;-)

 

Sorry, won't do. There are plenty of people who are not up to the job in both the public and private sectors. Methinks you are in danger of being labelled a reverse-snob here :-D

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-08-07 8:46 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-08-07 8:44 PM

Public sector ;-)

 

Sorry, won't do. There are plenty of people who are not up to the job in both the public and private sectors. Methinks you are in danger of being labelled a reverse-snob here :-D

 

There you go :-D...............You have just proved my point B-).............as to be employed in the public sector above bin man, you need an education ;-) ..................NOT an ability to do the job *-) .........and once your in............Bingo.........comfortable meal ticket, nice gold plaited pension............and it doesn't even matter if your incompetent 8-)...................same thing applies to PLC's if you have been to the right schools, and have the right bum chums >:-).......

 

Just to illustrate my point ;-) ...............how many teachers have been sacked in the last 10 years?..............17 at the last count *-)

[RogerC]

John 47 - 2013-08-07 8:33 PM

pelmetman - 2013-08-07 8:28 PMNot quite John ;-)..................my beef is with the education industry *-).............who value academia above anything else..................personally I value someone who can actually do the job.............above....... someone who can write a thesis on how to do the job *-)

What is this mythical "education industry" you speak of? Name me one person who would prefer someone who can write a thesis on how to do a job over someone who can do the job.

 

John whilst it is not a person...it is a massive organisation and employer I nominate the UN.  I know, personally, two UN region executives.  One ran the UN in Sarajevo/Bosnia.  The other ran the UN mission in DRC.  As my background/expertise is in aviation, primarily cargo and tactical operations (I was C130 crew for 18 years and a 'Global' Ops manager for another 12) they both, over the years would comment that they would like to employ people like myself, with years of experience relative to their vacancies.  However the UN recruitment people in New York (with no 'life' experience beyond education and sitting behind a desk) overrode the Exec's requirements for 'experienced' people and deemed it necessary to have a degree.  Having joined the Royal Air Force at age 15 I did not have a degree hence I was not 'qualified'.  What nonsense.

 

Is that a good enough example to answer your question?

 

[Gwendolyn]

John 47 - 2013-08-07 5:36 PM

 

Gwendolyn - 2013-08-06 9:33 PM

 

Ok so here’s a topic to get you going – more of an Old Style [as I think of it] Matter of Debate on Chatterbox. In other words, one from Public Sector Workers / Public Sector Pensions / Useless Degrees…

 

This come under the latter heading I think.

 

From January 2014, it is going to be possible to do a Foundation Degree at Kingston Maurward College in Tourism Park Management [Caravan Club Warden???] Now is that worse than Media Studies????

 

Off you go…..

 

Cheers

Gwen

 

Hi

 

I don't know what your background is but for the benefit of anybody who has not been through a University education the important thing is not so much the topic of study but the method of study. Very few degrees train you for a specific job or task without further training. What they do is teach you how to construct an argument, how to research a topic, how to identify fact and opinion, how to make a point, how to weigh up a debate, how to analyse, how to draw conclusions and so on and so on. It therefore matters very little if the degree is in ancient history, rocket science or theatre studies; employers are looking for people who have the skills they are looking for, not people who can hold a particular set of facts in their head.

 

It is thus very easy to belittle degrees such as media studies and tourism but it is usually a criticism that is undeserved. A degree in tourism from a good University can be worth more than a degree in physics from an average one.

 

Meant to be a jokey thread. Harping back to the “Good Old Threads” re useless degrees / public sector workers. The kind of topics I used to read on CB before other topics took hold.

 

Do know quite a lot about education, as it happens.

 

And reading the postings since I last looked – been away from computer all day - it seems to have got the Public Sector Workers and Their Pensions topic going as well. That's more like it!!

 

Cheers

Gwen

 

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-08-07 8:59 PM

 

John 47 - 2013-08-07 8:46 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-08-07 8:44 PM

Public sector ;-)

 

Sorry, won't do. There are plenty of people who are not up to the job in both the public and private sectors. Methinks you are in danger of being labelled a reverse-snob here :-D

 

There you go :-D...............You have just proved my point B-).............as to be employed in the public sector above bin man, you need an education ;-) ..................NOT an ability to do the job *-) .........and once your in............Bingo.........comfortable meal ticket, nice gold plaited pension............and it doesn't even matter if your incompetent 8-)...................same thing applies to PLC's if you have been to the right schools, and have the right bum chums >:-).......

 

Just to illustrate my point ;-) ...............how many teachers have been sacked in the last 10 years?..............17 at the last count *-)

 

Oh dear, oh dear. You really should get out and talk to someone in the public sector. Maybe a policeman or a soldier or a hospital porter or an office worker or perhaps a dinner lady etc etc. The VAST majority of people employed in the public sector do NOT have degrees, they do NOT have a gold-plated pension and they do NOT have a meal-ticket for life. On the other hand, there are plenty of highly-educated, well-paid, secure idiots not doing their jobs properly in the private sector. You really must get rid of that chip on your shoulder and realise that not all the ills of society can be placed at one door.

 

And NOBODY employs someone on the basis that they can write a thesis on the job rather than do it. Sometimes it turns out that the person employed is not up to the job but that has nothing to do with which sector they work in.

 

As for you example about sacking teachers, yes I do think it should be easier. But how many bankers do you know that have lost their jobs through incompetency?

[John 47]

RogerC - 2013-08-07 9:18 PM>John whilst it is not a person...it is a massive organisation and employer I nominate the UN.  I know, personally, two UN region executives.  One ran the UN in Sarajevo/Bosnia.  The other ran the UN mission in DRC.  As my background/expertise is in aviation, primarily cargo and tactical operations (I was C130 crew for 18 years and a 'Global' Ops manager for another 12) they both, over the years would comment that they would like to employ people like myself, with years of experience relative to their vacancies.  However the UN recruitment people in New York (with no 'life' experience beyond education and sitting behind a desk) overrode the Exec's requirements for 'experienced' people and deemed it necessary to have a degree.  Having joined the Royal Air Force at age 15 I did not have a degree hence I was not 'qualified'.  What nonsense.

 

Is that a good enough example to answer your question?

Yes, there are idiots at the top of many (if not most) organisations. I doubt, however, whether any of them would say, as pelmetman said, that they would prefer to have people who couldn't do the job. They were probably thinking (incorrectly) that their rules ensured the employment of better people. I doubt that they were out to employ people who couldn't do the job. Their decision may have been flawed (highly flawed, it appears) but it isn't quite what pelmetman was talking about. Having said that, I take your point but the more I think about it, the more I think that pelmetman's description better fits nepotism in the private sector rather than anything else - employ your nephew even though he is an idiot but because he is family.

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-08-08 9:31 AM

 

pelmetman - 2013-08-07 8:59 PM

 

John 47 - 2013-08-07 8:46 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-08-07 8:44 PM

Public sector ;-)

 

Sorry, won't do. There are plenty of people who are not up to the job in both the public and private sectors. Methinks you are in danger of being labelled a reverse-snob here :-D

 

There you go :-D...............You have just proved my point B-).............as to be employed in the public sector above bin man, you need an education ;-) ..................NOT an ability to do the job *-) .........and once your in............Bingo.........comfortable meal ticket, nice gold plaited pension............and it doesn't even matter if your incompetent 8-)...................same thing applies to PLC's if you have been to the right schools, and have the right bum chums >:-).......

 

Just to illustrate my point ;-) ...............how many teachers have been sacked in the last 10 years?..............17 at the last count *-)

 

Oh dear, oh dear. You really should get out and talk to someone in the public sector. Maybe a policeman or a soldier or a hospital porter or an office worker or perhaps a dinner lady etc etc. The VAST majority of people employed in the public sector do NOT have degrees, they do NOT have a gold-plated pension and they do NOT have a meal-ticket for life. On the other hand, there are plenty of highly-educated, well-paid, secure idiots not doing their jobs properly in the private sector. You really must get rid of that chip on your shoulder and realise that not all the ills of society can be placed at one door.

 

And NOBODY employs someone on the basis that they can write a thesis on the job rather than do it. Sometimes it turns out that the person employed is not up to the job but that has nothing to do with which sector they work in.

 

As for you example about sacking teachers, yes I do think it should be easier. But how many bankers do you know that have lost their jobs through incompetency?

 

But you forget ;-)......................I have been in both camps :D...............I spent 10 years in the forces, and at the age of 60 I will receive a lump sum, and at current forecasts £40 a week £160 a month, and my contributions for this gold plaited indexed link pension........peanuts >:-).....................on the other hand my private pension which at one time I was paying in £100's of pounds a month...........now pay's me a similar £150 a month *-)..............Which neatly illustrates the difference between the public sector and the real world >:-)........

 

We can agree on the sacking teachers and bankers though :D...................but its unlikely to happen with the unions more than happy to defend the indefensible, and bankers more than happy to look after their mates *-)

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-08-08 9:39 AM

Their decision may have been flawed (highly flawed, it appears) but it isn't quite what pelmetman was talking about.

 

 

Yes it was ;-)...................the upper echelons of the public sector only employ clones of themselves, why else do they only advertise in the Guardian *-)........

[CliveH]

John 47 - 2013-08-08 9:39 AM

RogerC - 2013-08-07 9:18 PM>John whilst it is not a person...it is a massive organisation and employer I nominate the UN.  I know, personally, two UN region executives.  One ran the UN in Sarajevo/Bosnia.  The other ran the UN mission in DRC.  As my background/expertise is in aviation, primarily cargo and tactical operations (I was C130 crew for 18 years and a 'Global' Ops manager for another 12) they both, over the years would comment that they would like to employ people like myself, with years of experience relative to their vacancies.  However the UN recruitment people in New York (with no 'life' experience beyond education and sitting behind a desk) overrode the Exec's requirements for 'experienced' people and deemed it necessary to have a degree.  Having joined the Royal Air Force at age 15 I did not have a degree hence I was not 'qualified'.  What nonsense.

 

Is that a good enough example to answer your question?

Yes, there are idiots at the top of many (if not most) organisations. I doubt, however, whether any of them would say, as pelmetman said, that they would prefer to have people who couldn't do the job. They were probably thinking (incorrectly) that their rules ensured the employment of better people. I doubt that they were out to employ people who couldn't do the job. Their decision may have been flawed (highly flawed, it appears) but it isn't quite what pelmetman was talking about. Having said that, I take your point but the more I think about it, the more I think that pelmetman's description better fits nepotism in the private sector rather than anything else - employ your nephew even though he is an idiot but because he is family.

From my experience - both scenarios are equally valid. I have posted before about the complete numpties i came across in various PCT's before these were disbanded. For once, this disbanding of PCT's was a great example of a Government doing away with a HUGE tier of unnecessary bureaucracy. Now GP's decide on treatment regimes and they employ the administrators.With the PCT's it was the administrators telling the GP's what they could do for patients. We are currently dealing with a family firm where the parents are trying to retire but the son is driving the business into the ground. But what can the parents do? - Luckily they did the sensible thing and over the past years have been moving profit into pensions, so their retirement income is independent of the well being of the company. In fact the Companies premises are held within the SIPP and so even if the Company goes bust, the premises could just be rented out again to someone else and the rent would still be paid into the Parents pension.The son would be out of a job tho and so would the three employees.When this has happened before and the administrators go in, usually they sit and listen politely to the excuses of the family member that has mucked up, then fire him/her and bring back the employees that have lost their job to run the company.Often with good management rather than management by accident of birth, a good and viable company can make the transition back to "health".So yes - the Public Sector does tend to select people that are not entrepreneurs.And entrepreneurial genes are not inherited.

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-08-08 10:33 AM

But you forget ;-)......................I have been in both camps :D...............I spent 10 years in the forces, and at the age of 60 I will receive a lump sum, and at current forecasts £40 a week £160 a month, and my contributions for this gold plaited indexed link pension........peanuts >:-).....................on the other hand my private pension which at one time I was paying in £100's of pounds a month...........now pay's me a similar £150 a month *-)..............Which neatly illustrates the difference between the public sector and the real world >:-)........

 

We can agree on the sacking teachers and bankers though :D...................but its unlikely to happen with the unions more than happy to defend the indefensible, and bankers more than happy to look after their mates *-)

 

So have I - and your distinction between the public sector and the real world does not hold water. Any attempt to say "public bad, private good" or even the other way round is complete nonsense.

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-08-08 6:30 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-08-08 10:33 AM

But you forget ;-)......................I have been in both camps :D...............I spent 10 years in the forces, and at the age of 60 I will receive a lump sum, and at current forecasts £40 a week £160 a month, and my contributions for this gold plaited indexed link pension........peanuts >:-).....................on the other hand my private pension which at one time I was paying in £100's of pounds a month...........now pay's me a similar £150 a month *-)..............Which neatly illustrates the difference between the public sector and the real world >:-)........

 

We can agree on the sacking teachers and bankers though :D...................but its unlikely to happen with the unions more than happy to defend the indefensible, and bankers more than happy to look after their mates *-)

 

So have I - and your distinction between the public sector and the real world does not hold water. Any attempt to say "public bad, private good" or even the other way round is complete nonsense.

 

Naturally I would never say all public sector workers are idle, or just working their ticket ;-)..................but I suspect the there's a lot more in the public sector than there is in the private, apart from large organisations that can afford to carry a bit of dead wood >:-)...............