Geoff Cole Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Hi, We were on our way to Cean to get the ferry to Portsmouth, In our Fiat ducatto 2.2 powered motorhome. About an hour into the journey the engine suddenly lost power, my first thought was the turbo had failed, then huge amounts of white smoke billowed from the exhaust, I pulled into the nearest lay-by and turned the engine off, however the engine did not stop but continued to rev up I put it into gear to stop it. The breakdown truck arrived and took the camper us and the dog to a commercial Fiat garage, the mechanic started the engine it run on three cylinders only and produced huge amounts of smoke, on checking the oil level the engine had consumed about 2-3 ltrs their opinion is that not only is the turbo destroyed but the engine is also damaged beyond repair. They did not really want to investigate due to the cost, they were quoting in excess of 6000 euros, for a new engine. I would want to do a compression test on the faulty cylinder before removing the head to ascertain whether there is damage to the valves, piston or gasket and go from there. The is camper is going to be repatriated to the Isle of Man by the breakdown service within the next 10-15 days, we will leave tomorrow by car to make our own way back, not the best ending to and otherwise good trip. Perhaps Nick could advise his thoughts on the possible engine damage. Geoff C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 So sorry to hear of your misfortune Geoff. Nick's presence on here can be a bit unpredictable depending on his workload but should you want to contact him direct he is at - Euro Truck Hire Saffron Way Leicester LE2 6UP? 0116 244 2222 I don't have an email address as yet but I'll go on looking for you. Meanwhile if you send him a pm he might possibly get an alert for that, or he might be contactable via MMM for whome he (used to) do a bit of advisory work (I think)? Sorry I can't be more helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean.clarke Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Not good, I have known this to happen to 3 Renault 1.9dCi engines, the turbo sucks in engine oil and feeds it to the cylenders - the engine then runs that so switching the ignition off does nothing. 1st time I saw this the car was stopped and with the gearbox in neutral the engine hit max revs and through a con rod through the side of the engine. Similar for the 2nd and the 3rd it just took out the bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel wood Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Sorry to hear your news Geoff. Your experience shows the value (necessity?) of having breakdown insurance for continental trips. I hope that everything goes smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal55 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 sorry for you, hope u get home ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Cole Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Thanks for your replies, it was yesterday that we broke down its been a very frustrating and anxious time. as much as we like our motorhome we have now lost faith in it and have had considerable problems with the engine management system,EGR valve and now the turbo, this is going to be very expensive so I think it will be time to move on to a more reliable base vehicle. I know they all have problems but I have never had so many problems with any vehicle as I have with this Fiat. I am insured with caravan guard and the service has been excellent, the cost of repatriating the camper to the IOM will be very costly. Talking about insurance cover, it is also to have good medical cover,we are not entitled to a EH1C health card in the IOM so I have good travel insurance, which was vital earlier this year when I had a bad fall and smashed my elbow to bits which is now held together with lots of bits of metal and screws, the cost was around 15k, not been my year so far. I have only recently been able to drive again much to the relieve of her that normally sits in the passenger seat (lol) I wil let you all know the outcome of this engine failure when its sorted Thanks Geoff C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Sorry to hear of all your problems Geoff - sounds like this year has been a bit of a nightmare. Hope you get it all sorted without too much hassle. All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 My sympathies Geoff, I know that the Ford version of the 2.2 has known problems with over fuelling melting pistons and making a hole, the engine then runs on the sump oil. Keep us informed, mine is a 2.2 Ford so hence the interest. A recon engine may be a cheaper option? Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Thankfully you are being repatriated by your insurance company. €6000 for a new engine may well be the case but it suggests to me the garage has taken the easy way out, or does not want the business. Please feed back what your local garage comes up with as I am sure the engine can be repaired for far much less. Even a second hand engine is not going to cost £5,750+ to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Bit of a nightmare Geoff, I hope you get a good result regarding a resolution. I haven't been too happy with 2013 myself so far but yours sounds much worse. Chin up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Ouch 8-).............Your tag line seems quite apt *-) "a motor home is a collection of parts not always correctly assembled and some times not at all!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Really gutted for you Geoff, hope you get some not too bad news when you get the van home. derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Oh dear....Not good! but hopefully such a stratospheric failure a relativity rare occurrence :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Sorry to hear your bad luck, does sound like classic case of turbo seals failing & engine running off sump oil. Don't be put off Fiat's isn't your 2.2 a Ford/Peugeot engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I believe that the engine is made by PSA a joint venture owned by Ford Citroen Puegeot soon to be joined by Dongfeng the Chinese state Co. Ford rework the cylinder head and use different ancillaries but otherwise the 2.2 engine is much the same. PSA engines are used by a wide range of manufacturers, Jaguar and BMW Mini among them. There is a list here http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29681 if you are interested. Removing the cylinder head is not a big job and if it were me I would go down that route after having the turbo examined for seal failure and checking for engine oil in the intercooler and pipework. If the engine was stalled before revving it's b0££o*s off the bottom end might be OK, if a piston is holed a new piston and injectors might sort it. As I said I am interested to know what happened. Hope my thoughts help. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 hallii - 2013-10-18 12:22 PM I believe that the engine is made by PSA a joint venture owned by Ford Citroen Puegeot soon to be joined by Dongfeng the Chinese state Co. .....whilst the PSA-originated 2.2 diesel engine has been used in various non-PSA applications, including some by Ford, the 2.2 used in the Transit, Boxer and Jumper is a Ford-originated (Duratorq "Puma") engine (probably made in Dagenham). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Ouch..that's not nice to read. I had the engine on my Iveco 'let go' in similar fashion. At a garage that I trust they said go for as short engine (reconditioned) because the cost of 'bits' to repair the 'blown motor' along with the hours (labour) to do so would be very expensive compared to a short engine. This might be a consideration for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Hello Geoff, I have just stumbled upon this thread as I get ready for a week's holiday; my first full week for 15 years! I have been rather busy making the place ship shape for my departure so apologise for my late arrival. I am sorry to hear that you have had a major problem with your engine. We do not run 2.2l Fiats because of an inherent mistrust of the Peugeot/Ford unit so I can't really give advice specific to the engine in question, but normal rules tend to apply in these situations.... The thing is that if the engine starts on it's own without 'easy start' being sprayed in; the injectors are ok but this means that there is engine damage. If it needs 'easy start' the injectors are affected, and oddly enough this is probably good news. Anyway... The turbo has fairly obviously terminated itself and tried it's best to take the engine with it. You would seem to have 'caught' it in time to prevent serious damage to the major oily bits but the over-speed situation would very likely have caused some damage to one or more injectors. It could actually be that an injector was over-fuelling and that your oil level was high as a result; which caused the turbo to start to consume the oil in the sump. Do you have an oil level indicator? If it did not flag the problem; that is not the cause. There is no getting around the fact that a new turbo will be required whether the engine is to be replaced or repaired, so I would put one of those on first (and remove all associated pipes and the intercooler to clean out the excess oil) then remove all of the injectors and get them tested. If at least one of them is in seriously bad shape I would next pop a compression tester on it and see what results you get. If the readings are disappointing you could have piston damage, cylinder bore damage or even a bent crankshaft. It may be something as simple as a head gasket, but at this point I would call time on that engine and look for another one. If the compression test looks favourable I would put a repaired/replaced injector set in and give it a whirl. You have little to lose. Even new full engines come without injectors so you will not be wasting money unless you end up putting a used engine in that is complete. You could always put the injectors on ebay if that happens. That's what I would do anyway. I wish you good fortune and a safe journey home. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawcara Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 euroserv - 2013-10-18 6:26 PM I am sorry to hear that you have had a major problem with your engine. We do not run 2.2l Fiats because of an inherent mistrust of the Peugeot/Ford unit so I can't really give advice specific to the engine in question, but normal rules tend to apply in these situations.... Based on the mistrust of this type of engine, what would be the better or ideal choice, should one be in a position to make the choice? Enjoy your holiday :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auntyjanet1 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Geoff very sorry to hear of your engine blow out in France . You were very kind to send me an e-mail about your solution to the water ingress problem on the X250 scuttle,and I have sent a copy on to several others. Hope you get your engine sorted and get back on the road again All the best mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Really sorry to hear of your misfortune Geoff. Hopefully you are home by now, or nearly, chose to do the right thing to return the m/home back to the I.o.M. as parts in France are horrendously expensive although labour is much cheaper. Good luck with sorting it all out. Looks as if your long-term plans have changed - will pm you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickydripin Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Hi Geoff, So sorry to hear of your demise and hope that you got home safe. Not only you but I think a great deal of us have the same dred when we are travelling a lot of miles we sit there listening to the engine purr away and every little unusual sound pricks up your ears and makes your heart flicker a little especialey when we are over the water. A while ago I beleive that Brian said to have a motorhome you need to have a good wedg in your back pocket for all eventualities and your problem seemes to enforce that. Motorhoming is not cheep weather you have a new one or a second hand one and it can be very painfull when something goes "clang". I hope that it is not too much of a clang for you and it works out well in the end all the best. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Really sorry to hear of your troubles Geoff , thats has to be everyones Nightmare, and I hope it doesnt turn out to be as expensive as first predicted, Thank you for Re enforcing my belief that Fiats are not fit for Porpose ,its only Owners reluctance to adimit they are crap that keeps them selling plus the fact they are so cheap for the converter,s to buy. Hope all goes well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Corky 8 - 2013-10-20 12:35 PMReally sorry to hear of your troubles Geoff , thats has to be everyones Nightmare, and I hope it doesnt turn out to be as expensive as first predicted, Thank you for Re enforcing my belief that Fiats are not fit for Porpose ,its only Owners reluctance to adimit they are crap that keeps them selling plus the fact they are so cheap for the converter,s to buy. Hope all goes well for you.What a load of dribble it is a Ford/Peugeot engine that blew not a Fiat one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Hi Geoff,Sorry to hear of your troubles, you may get away with replacing the turbo and injectors but unfortunately this may leave you with very little faith in the unit.The €6000 quoted is a little steep, anywhere. The best option I can advise following damage inspection maybe to replace with a re-conditioned engine. Regards,Brendan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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