betsy Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Hi, again! Having laughed when I first heard that some manufacturers were not supplying spare wheels/tyres with new vans and promising myself never to buy one of those makes etc..........I bought a lovely almost unused Burstner from a friend and, guess what, no spare! Some vans back we had a spectacular blowout on a lonely Spanish carretera just north of Salamanca and I would probably still be there now if we didn't have a spare. So, am now in the process of trying to obtain a secondhand get-you-home spare wheel for our latest van. I am reluctant to purchase an expensive new rim + tyre, given that it will probably/hopefully never be used. The Burstner (currently plated at 4,000kg and fitted with a heavy ALKO chassis) is fitted with 225/75R 16CP tyres on flash alloy wheels - problem is, I understand, that the wheel nuts that are on the alloys will almost certainly NOT fit a standard Fiat steel wheel. I have made some enquiries on E-Bay and am told that a 16" rim built for a Ducato (etc) post 2006 with a 215/75R 16C tyre (1cm thinner than the 225's) would be okay as a get-you-home-spare. Questions: Would the 215 described above do the job? What are my alternatives? If I went ahead with the 215 spare above, what size wheel nuts (with collars) should I buy 15mm wide? How many mm long? Just a note of caution for anyone out there with a underslung spare wheel that has an extension tube with a valve on the end that is fitted into their van's sideskirts to permit easy checking/topping up of the spare. I had one of those when I had the blowout, only trouble was that the disintegrating tyre cut through the extension tube leaving the spare to deflate!! In a very scary 60mph flash, a ruined tyre, a fully loaded-for-the-winter-in-Portugal van, a flat spare and miles from anywhere with darkness setting in.......that really was one Spanish evening I'd rather forget - fortunately I had a air pump.. Thanks in advance for any advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 A 215/75 is 15mm smaller dia than a 225/75, not recommended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Get your wheel nuts for steel wheels from a fiat dealer. They cost peanuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 As the emergency wheels on most new cars these days are smaller than the standard fit I cannot see a problem with using this as you say, as a get you home tyre. As for the wheel nuts unless they are sleeved nuts they are probably the same but as others have said just get a spare set anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Betsy, I am NOT saying that this is OK to do but feel that I must point out that a 225/75 R16 CP tyre has a load rating of 116 whereas a 'Standard' 215/75 R16 C ONLY has a rating of 113. This means the weight the tyre can support will be significantly reduced! Link to CP Link to C I will also add that a 'Reinforced' version of the 215/75 R16 C tyre may be available and that this would then have the required load index. One final point is that the 215 section tyre will have a smaller rolling radius than the 225 and this will more than likely affect the traction control and ABS systems on the MH and may even make it un-drivable! Be warned. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-11-10 8:26 PM As the emergency wheels on most new cars these days are smaller than the standard fit I cannot see a problem with using this as you say, as a get you home tyre. As for the wheel nuts unless they are sleeved nuts they are probably the same but as others have said just get a spare set anyway. AFAIK the tyres are narrower, but the overall dia is the same, at least thats the case on both my Suzi's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 betsy - 2013-11-10 6:38 PM Having laughed when I first heard that some manufacturers were not supplying spare wheels/tyres with new vans and promising myself never to buy one of those makes etc...............................I am reluctant to purchase an expensive new rim + tyre, given that it will probably/hopefully never be used. So you want manufacturers to supply a spare wheel but you don't want to pay for it *-) Incidentally in 40 years in the haulage industry I can't ever remember a new lorry arriving with a spare wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Here is a wheel at a reasonable price on E bay, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-DUCATO-BOXER-RELAY-WHEEL-AND-TYRE-215-75R-16C-2007-2012-/290988426211?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM&hash=item43c04303e3 would need a coat of paint, and a new tyre in the 'not too distant future' but would be ok as a 'get you home' spare. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 colin - 2013-11-10 8:33 PM AFAIK the tyres are narrower, but the overall dia is the same, at least thats the case on both my Suzi's Sorry Colin but no they are not. The sidewall height is a percentage of the tread width (the aspect ratio) so a 225 width will have a taller sidewall than a 215. Have a look at this calculator... Link. Keith. Edit. To add that a purpose designed space saver spare will have the same diameter as the vehicles standard wheel but an alternative standard size will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Keithl - 2013-11-10 8:38 PM colin - 2013-11-10 8:33 PM AFAIK the tyres are narrower, but the overall dia is the same, at least thats the case on both my Suzi's Sorry Colin but no they are not. The sidewall height is a percentage of the tread width (the aspect ratio) so a 225 width will have a taller sidewall than a 215. Have a look at this calculator... Link. Keith. Edit. To add that a purpose designed space saver spare will have the same diameter as the vehicles standard wheel but an alternative standard size will not. Read my earlier post *-) That post was a reply to Henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Sorry Colin, a hasty reply on my part :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 If you calculate the cost of buying a new spare as a percentage of a "nearly unused" Burstner, it ain't much. About two tankfuls of diesel I reckon, even for an alloy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I bought a spare steel wheel for my sprinter based van and it was about £65 plus the heavy duty van tyre at £64. So for about £130 for both, which isn't a kings ransome for new. The tyre is not a camper one, but will do as a spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Well I'm feeling smug current van had a spare as standard and the new Hymer on order had the option of a spare which I ordered. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 peter - 2013-11-10 9:33 PM I bought a spare steel wheel for my sprinter based van and it was about £65 plus the heavy duty van tyre at £64. So for about £130 for both, which isn't a kings ransome for new. The tyre is not a camper one, but will do as a spare. Thats the answer isn't it. Refusing to buy a vehicle because they have to order a spare wheel separately seems like cutting off their nose to spite their face *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 PS: Spares are extra cost and weight and can get stolen. Commercial fleet owners seldom carry spare wheels because they will have a special deal with 24hour tyre services like National Tyres and ATS. I don't have such a deal now, they would probably rip me off if I called them out, so I carry a spare. But I would have no objection to ordering it separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Commercial fleets are using standard van tyres and it's probably only a 30% chance the van will be fully loaded at the time of a tyre blow out. Motorhomes invariably run fully laden a puncture often results in a blow out an with the load on the tyre often destroys it beyond repair and often damages the rim. So if you end up at the side of the road with a wreaked tyre assuming the rim to be OK, the breakdown service are only likely to be able to obtain a standard van tyre that is going to cost you £80/£90and when you get home you are going to have to shell out another 130 quid on a camping tyre. I ordered a spare with the new van after discount works out around 250 quid but does come with a properly engineered bracket to hold it securely in the garage, cheap for the peace of mind and only adds 25kg to the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-11-11 9:59 AM Commercial fleets are using standard van tyres and it's probably only a 30% chance the van will be fully loaded at the time of a tyre blow out. Motorhomes invariably run fully laden a puncture often results in a blow out an with the load on the tyre often destroys it beyond repair and often damages the rim. So if you end up at the side of the road with a wreaked tyre assuming the rim to be OK, the breakdown service are only likely to be able to obtain a standard van tyre that is going to cost you £80/£90and when you get home you are going to have to shell out another 130 quid on a camping tyre. I ordered a spare with the new van after discount works out around 250 quid but does come with a properly engineered bracket to hold it securely in the garage, cheap for the peace of mind and only adds 25kg to the weight. Commercial hauliers would laugh at the idea of paying extra for a 'camping' tyre in stead of a 'commercial' tyre. :-D As long as it will pass an MOT it will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Peter James - 2013-11-11 12:42 PM lennyhb - 2013-11-11 9:59 AM Commercial fleets are using standard van tyres and it's probably only a 30% chance the van will be fully loaded at the time of a tyre blow out. Motorhomes invariably run fully laden a puncture often results in a blow out an with the load on the tyre often destroys it beyond repair and often damages the rim. So if you end up at the side of the road with a wreaked tyre assuming the rim to be OK, the breakdown service are only likely to be able to obtain a standard van tyre that is going to cost you £80/£90and when you get home you are going to have to shell out another 130 quid on a camping tyre. I ordered a spare with the new van after discount works out around 250 quid but does come with a properly engineered bracket to hold it securely in the garage, cheap for the peace of mind and only adds 25kg to the weight. Commercial hauliers would laugh at the idea of paying extra for a 'camping' tyre in stead of a 'commercial' tyre. :-D As long as it will pass an MOT it will do. Does not matter what tyres are on the van it is still safer to have identical tyres on the same axle, I also believe it is a requirement in France. So you still have the same problem if your van is shod with CP tyres which most are when they come out of the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-11-11 1:19 PM Does not matter what tyres are on the van it is still safer to have identical tyres on the same axle, I also believe it is a requirement in France. So you still have the same problem if your van is shod with CP tyres which most are when they come out of the factory. Its a camper van, not a formula one car *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Personally, I would get one from a breaker, making sure I specify exact size of both wheel and tyre to avoid a cock up.. Bear in mind the need for a place to carry it securely which may no longer exist on a converted chassis and also bear in mind the weight reduction in payload of a heavy spare wheel and tyre together with jack, wheelbrace, and any extra steelwork needed to house or carry it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 A breaker? Don't risk it, they aren't tested, could have internal impact damage and if you get a blowout at the start of a long journey you could be dependant on it for a while. As I said above, in the grand scheme of things a new spare is a small percentage of overall costs, you can always rotate it with the others. Four patches of rubber the size of a shoe are your only contact with road at 70mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Billggski - 2013-11-11 5:59 PM A breaker? Don't risk it, they aren't tested, could have internal impact damage and if you get a blowout at the start of a long journey you could be dependant on it for a while. As I said above, in the grand scheme of things a new spare is a small percentage of overall costs, you can always rotate it with the others. Four patches of rubber the size of a shoe are your only contact with road at 70mph. Too true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madge Gentle Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Spare steel wheel from Scrapyard - £15 A 'never used' correct size and rated Michelin Camping tyre from a local tyre depot, fitted and new valve - £30 Sorted and peace of mind for £45 Tyre and wheel will only be used in emergency to get MH at a steady speed to nearest tyre depot. 'Four patches of rubber the size of a shoe are your only contact with road at 70mph' - by heck, some of you must be in a devil of a hurry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 A new wheel and tyre cost me £145 from Autoline. Motorhome £29,000. So 0.05% of total cost for peace of mind when my daughter borrows it with her kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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