mike 202 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-11-19 4:13 PM Silly boy you have just told the whole world about you nice hiding place. :D Lennyhb, your comment mirrors the wifes and perhaps I was being naive but your point well taken. I was however trying to put an alternative way of thinking and I did not think that our European miscreants read this forum. Still a fine line between keeping it to myself (I'm alright jack) and hopefully helping others. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 The chances of a toe rag reading this thread slim but do a Google search on "safe in motorhome" and it will probably come up. Nice idea though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-11-19 9:27 PM well some of us have more to loose these days, and a safe makes absolute sense. in the scenario you describe a holiday would hardly be affected with a safe..broken window latch repair at most. you simply can't carry all your stuff around with you ... or at least we can't :-S We did indeed lose a valuable item, my daughter's soft toy. That is why we know it was a kid used to get at us. Trying to calm a 5 year old took a lot of doing. Valuables are all relative and if you really do wish to carry all your Crown jewels with you then 'good luck'. Of course some no gooder may just decide the easiest option is to 'just nick the truck'. Rifle it at leisure and burn the thing. Personally I try to look as poor as possible so they decide others are mopre attractive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Muswell - 2013-11-19 7:16 PM Interesting that nobody posting has actually had the experience of someone breaking in and putting the safe to test. I imagine that motorhome thieves are opportunists but as a cautionary note.....when we moved house recently the previous owner, an old lady, had returned to the Netherlands leaving the safe locked. It took the locksmith about a minute to open it. We just don't leave valuables in the van. Not directly, but indirectly. I met a German chap on site in Italy. His van was hired, and he had left it in a street while visiting a museum or some such. Thieves had forced the door (screwdriver in lock), rifled the lockers etc, discovered the hire companies safe in the base of the wardrobe, and tried to lever it free. In the process they had damaged wardrobe, adjoining bed base, and adjoining side sofa base. In short, all furniture down one side of the van needed replacing. The safe, meanwhile, was only a bit scratched. (Do not imagine that any thief will have the slightest scruple about trashing the interior of the van in order to try to remove the safe. No-one is going to waste time trying to break into the safe, they will simply try to remove it to get it cut open later.) The irony was that they'd taken their documents and valuables with them, so the safe contained nothing of value, and there was nothing taken from the lockers. My conclusion, on balance, was that the damage to the interior was worse than the shock of being broken into and robbed. It obviously depends where you are, but we don't in any case travel with much of value. Our most valuable items are our cameras, and we usually take them with us. Computers are relatively cheap these days, and would be covered by insurance. Data etc is backed up to SD or flash memory sticks, and carried here and there. Such cash as we carry is divided between us, and goes with us. Carole's bag is by Pacsafe, and is steel wire mesh reinforced, as are the straps, so pretty well proof against cutting/snatching. Generally, we stay on campsites. So, we have no safe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Anyone fixing a safe to internal furniture needs their heads examined. It needs to be bolted through floor to chassis *-) Easier in a panel van obviously, but mine is free standing against under bed wall. OK they would damage the floor and wall but unlikely to shift it, and at least I would not have to drive straight home with my tail between my legs and a ruined holiday like an ever increasing number.... in all honesty how many thieves go " equipped " when robbing, let alone carry crowbars and mallets etc.. Most are scumbag petty pilfering opportunists, a quick in and a quick out....let's face it campers are easy money and can be entered with bare hands via windows/roof windows. That's my assessment of the risk, and we will never travel without a safe....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-11-20 7:13 PM Muswell - 2013-11-19 7:16 PM Interesting that nobody posting has actually had the experience of someone breaking in and putting the safe to test. I imagine that motorhome thieves are opportunists but as a cautionary note.....when we moved house recently the previous owner, an old lady, had returned to the Netherlands leaving the safe locked. It took the locksmith about a minute to open it. We just don't leave valuables in the van. Not directly, but indirectly. I met a German chap on site in Italy. His van was hired, and he had left it in a street while visiting a museum or some such. Thieves had forced the door (screwdriver in lock), rifled the lockers etc, discovered the hire companies safe in the base of the wardrobe, and tried to lever it free. In the process they had damaged wardrobe, adjoining bed base, and adjoining side sofa base. In short, all furniture down one side of the van needed replacing. The safe, meanwhile, was only a bit scratched. (Do not imagine that any thief will have the slightest scruple about trashing the interior of the van in order to try to remove the safe. No-one is going to waste time trying to break into the safe, they will simply try to remove it to get it cut open later.) The irony was that they'd taken their documents and valuables with them, so the safe contained nothing of value, and there was nothing taken from the lockers. My conclusion, on balance, was that the damage to the interior was worse than the shock of being broken into and robbed. It obviously depends where you are, but we don't in any case travel with much of value. Our most valuable items are our cameras, and we usually take them with us. Computers are relatively cheap these days, and would be covered by insurance. Data etc is backed up to SD or flash memory sticks, and carried here and there. Such cash as we carry is divided between us, and goes with us. Carole's bag is by Pacsafe, and is steel wire mesh reinforced, as are the straps, so pretty well proof against cutting/snatching. Generally, we stay on campsites. So, we have no safe! Seems like the same as us. I have a Pacsafe wallet on a chain with 1 bank card, one credit card and some money. Passport, driver's licence, other bank and credit card and more cash in a Pacsafe neck pouch. Nothing else is worth stealing and I'd rather they found that out as easily as possible. Not like the daft idea of lockable gloveboxes where they do a £1000 of damage to steal your handbook and sunglasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Laptop, passports, cash, cards, documents, sat nag, video camera, head cam for cycling, camera, bag containing computer related goodies, portable hard drives, memory sticks etc..etc....,..and to get there hands on all this, all they have to do is force a plastic window with bare hands if no safe fitted..... I can't fit in the old 16 inch tv we carry, so they are welcome to that! Also wear an under armpit money/card/ passport security bag and even have a waterproof one for swimming. so not all your eggs in one basket the key....happy holidays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Here is a brilliant idea for creating a 'hidden' compartment. You can buy magnetic cupboard door or drawer catches where you have to place a powerful magnetic over the correct spot on the front of the door or drawer to 'unlock' the catch. There is absolutely nothing visible to show where the catch is located. If you where to put a false back in a cupboard and hold it in place with one of these catches then there would be no visible signs of it being a false panel and a simple touch with the magnetic key would release the panel. We have a cupboard with a stepped back and I plan on fitting a false back to make it level. My theory is no one would be looking for a hidden space like this. Here is the kind of magnetic catch I am referring to... Magnetic lock. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-11-20 8:01 PM Anyone fixing a safe to internal furniture needs their heads examined. It needs to be bolted through floor to chassis *-) ................... Don't know if you were replying to my post, Eddie, but that safe definitely wasn't bolted to the furniture. It was floor standing, and bolted through the floor. That is why so much damage was done when the would-be thieves levered against the furniture while trying to remove it. Having got into the van, they didn't just see the safe and give up, they tried to remove the whole safe or, from the marks, at least lever the safe door off. The damage left his van pretty much unusable, so he would in any case have had to curtail his trip. Whether the risk of extensive internal damage, and the upheaval that would cause, is greater than the value of what is kept in the safe, is something that only individual owners can evaluate. Any stolen items would, presumably, be insured, so it seems to me it is a matter of balancing one potential insurance claim against another. I think our "goodies" are worth less than the potential cost of repairing a botched attempt at stealing, or breaking into, a safe, and that it would definitely take far less time to replace the stolen items than to repair the interior of the van. But, that is just my view, and I know you and others think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 A word of caution ... do NOT assume that your goodies are covered by insurance, some household and/or motorhome policies don't cover phones, laptops etc so READ THEM!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Forgot to add kindles, jewellery, iPod and headphones x 2 to list :-S. I don't believe your example representative. Chap probably a complete novice and inexperienced hirer? Most of us sensible folk very careful where we park as risk averse... A risk assessment on where you park essential. But still believe with alarm blaring and window alarms sounding...and chance of an equipped theft rare. 90% of breaking I have read about are stealthy, grab it and run with one of your pillow cases full of your goodies and chance of that far more common!*-) Next van will fit safe away from wall, so nothing to lever on, pretty pointless anyway as safe plated and bolted through floor with 16 mm bolts.....so have learnt something :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 This thread has had me thinking of extending the approach of the dummy wallet, how many of us have "old" technology kicking around, perhaps leave that in a safe with conveniently the key in it, maybe the lowlife would think it's his lucky day, . ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Installing a safe is a common solution to a very varied risk. Therefore, before installing a safe it is sensible to undertake a risk assessment. You can do this in less than half an hour and it will tell you whether a safe is a good idea and if so, help you decide what type and where to place it. It will help you think about all the other actions you can take to protect your valuables. Basic risk assessments work on the principle of probability multiplied by impact with the simplest considering high/medium or low. Consider what the overall risk is and then what are the potential causes of that risk. For example, is the overall risk that my holiday will be disrupted? Or my identity stolen? Or loss of valuable goods or goods with a sentimental link? Or my van will burn? Then look at what action you can take to eliminate, mitigate, avoid or transfer [such as insure] the risk or are you just going to live with it? I have come across situations where very secure safes are located in difficult to access places and rarely used as a result - too much trouble. I've also seen safes in kitchen cupboards disguised as something else. One trick is to carry a cheap cash box in a cupboard that the thieves can grab and go and hopefully not trash the motorhome when looking for a proper safe. A safe gives peace of mind. On its own, even the right safe in the right place it is not enough to protect valuables. I don't have a safe because I am restricted to motorhoming in the UK at present - the risk in the UK is acceptable to me. Like the OP, I'd have one for touring Europe because the risk is much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Brock - 2013-11-21 7:39 PM................I don't have a safe because I am restricted to motorhoming in the UK at present - the risk in the UK is acceptable to me. Like the OP, I'd have one for touring Europe because the risk is much higher. Sadly, I'm not sure this last point is supported by the evidence. I think mainland Europe is, in general, lower risk than UK. We are not a particularly honest society compared to most of the other European states. It would be naive, and nonsensical, to believe no thieves exist outside UK, and equally so to believe that the whole of the UK is overrun with criminals. But, I think the UK presents a higher risk, generally, than elsewhere in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-11-21 11:11 PM Brock - 2013-11-21 7:39 PM................I don't have a safe because I am restricted to motorhoming in the UK at present - the risk in the UK is acceptable to me. Like the OP, I'd have one for touring Europe because the risk is much higher. Sadly, I'm not sure this last point is supported by the evidence. I think mainland Europe is, in general, lower risk than UK. We are not a particularly honest society compared to most of the other European states. It would be naive, and nonsensical, to believe no thieves exist outside UK, and equally so to believe that the whole of the UK is overrun with criminals. But, I think the UK presents a higher risk, generally, than elsewhere in Europe. Agree.........More likely to get robbed in London, on Underground system or walking along Oxford street then in Benidorm....why? There are pickpockets in both locations, but London a larger magnet and richer pickings. Plus when travelling we are more circumspect then at home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 http://www.uturnuk.org/the-problem/crime-in-general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Brian/Eddie Sorry for being unclear. The comment highlighted should have been "because the risk TO ME is much higher". I didn't intend inferring the UK is safer than the Continent. I'm working in the knowledge risk is probability multiplied by impact. To me, the impact of being robbed "in the motorhome" is low in the UK. I would see impact as high if I was abroad where I would be carrying more valuable documents and possibly higher levels cash or equivalent in what to me is an unfamiliar environment. Whilst reading the forums suggests that I am going to be gassed and robbed as soon as I cross the channel, I assume the probability of motorhome crime is low on either side of the Channel. Overall, I am better able to mitigate my motorhome crime related risks in the UK [holiday disruption and loss of valuables] to a low level for me without a safe because I am more familiar with how UK society works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Having a 12v version of THIS fitted to our new van! :-S (:D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Nice one :D :D :D :D A PITA if you forget to disarm it when entering the van yourself. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Brock - 2013-11-22 10:27 AM Brian/Eddie Sorry for being unclear. The comment highlighted should have been "because the risk TO ME is much higher". I didn't intend inferring the UK is safer than the Continent. I'm working in the knowledge risk is probability multiplied by impact. To me, the impact of being robbed "in the motorhome" is low in the UK. I would see impact as high if I was abroad where I would be carrying more valuable documents and possibly higher levels cash or equivalent in what to me is an unfamiliar environment. Whilst reading the forums suggests that I am going to be gassed and robbed as soon as I cross the channel, I assume the probability of motorhome crime is low on either side of the Channel. Overall, I am better able to mitigate my motorhome crime related risks in the UK [holiday disruption and loss of valuables] to a low level for me without a safe because I am more familiar with how UK society works. Arseholes are Arseholes wherever you go, but as we travel in France extensively we never feel any threat compared to the UK, so just another perspective,, and why would anyone think a British motorhome would be any more of a target from any other european van beats me, we all carry our own goodies. ;-) as for higher levels of cash we never have more than "pocket money" on us in any event, in this age of plastic. Worse comes to the worst they'd get a laptop and a kindle, and a stale French baguette which will all be on display to save them wrecking the van crow barring a safe out. ;-) (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-11-22 12:17 PM Nice one :D :D :D :D A PITA if you forget to disarm it when entering the van yourself. :D Ah! But you are forgetting! Moi and Mrs M wear full Biological/chemical suits when we retire! hence the bigger van as its all becoming to much! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-11-22 11:44 AM Having a 12v version of THIS fitted to our new van! :-S (:D) Very good, now instead of smoke, substitute Halon Gas at very high pressure, Fills the van within a second or two, all you have to do then,is sweep the Bodies of the 'Robbers' out of the van. I like 'proactive deterance' . >:-) Ray If asked, 'they must have triggered the fire supression system.....oh dear, never mind' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Once the Rumanians, Bulgarians and Roma families join the rest of their eastern european compatriates here then we should be pretty safe in Europe. Do Clegg and Cameron need thanking for making our forays to Europe safer, a plus maybee, seeing that they have ruined the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 mike 202 - 2013-11-23 4:31 PM Once the Rumanians, Bulgarians and Roma families join the rest of their eastern european compatriates here then we should be pretty safe in Europe. Do Clegg and Cameron need thanking for making our forays to Europe safer, a plus maybee, seeing that they have ruined the UK. I'm just hoping my cat stays on long enough to get out of the UK in the spring. ;-) mind you I think they are all clued up on our benefits system perhaps they'll leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 mike 202 - 2013-11-23 4:31 PM.............. Do Clegg and Cameron need thanking for making our forays to Europe safer, a plus maybee, seeing that they have ruined the UK. OT but how do you make that claim stack up? I agree we are not yet out of the poo, but whose poo was it in the first place? I thought the election that put Clameron on the throne was in 2010, not 2005? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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