Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Well what a master stroke of design by Rapido, a Truma heater buried at the back of the kitchen that after struggling most of the day to get out, will now not come out, reason....the only access is through cupboard door that is narrower than the boiler, seems they put the boiler in first then built round it.....................I digress....................I want to send the PCB boards off for checking, but I have never come across this method of attaching wiring, arrowed, anyone got a clue please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Welcome to my world Mike! I don't know the model of your Rapido but I have had to deal with a couple of Truma issues on them and they do seem to excel in burying the heater. Assuming you have an "L" shaped kitchen and the heater is under the corner of the "L" so to speak you need to remove the cupboard door from the short leg of the "L", then the slide out wire shelves, then the floor of the cupboard and then you can unscrew and remove the rear wall of the cupboard allowing access to remove the heater through the now empty (almost missing) cupboard. It is a right pain! As for those connections, you need a thin pointy object to push into the flat hole above where the wires are, this should release the spring clip that grips the wires. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Thanks a lot Dave, yes it is an "L" shape kitchen, never in my life have I come across a more inaccessible spot for a heater, they have kindly provided a hatch on the side of the van to presumably get at the one board, only trouble is you can't get the cover off, a stroke of genius. Anyway thanks for the heads up, I was going out tomorrow with a crow bar ;-) or bringing it to you, but you will probably be happy to hear I'm skint at the moment :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Mike, whats the issue with the heater? Presumably you have a warranty with your new toy? Cant the dealer sort it?......so many questions, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 bolero boy - 2013-12-03 8:20 AM Mike, whats the issue with the heater? Presumably you have a warranty with your new toy? Cant the dealer sort it?......so many questions, eh? ..at least it isn't the Caravan Club's fault..well, not yet anyway. (lol) It does sound a bit of an "oversight", if they've gone to the trouble of fitting an access hatch...but when required,it isn't big enough! *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 bolero boy - 2013-12-03 8:20 AM Mike, whats the issue with the heater? Presumably you have a warranty with your new toy? Cant the dealer sort it?......so many questions, eh? The last warranty I had with a used M/home was about as useless as an ashtray on a motorbike..........had to wait nearly three months for them to be able to book me in. Here's the story so far after just owning it for two days when I had a play with it when we got home Problems started with the air circulation fan which sometimes would not start running despite the gas igniting, other times it would run, them slowly come to a complete stop, this was the same if just electric heating was used so the boiler shut down, I guess with an overheat protector kicking in ( wherever that is hidden ) . on other occasions it would run fine the van got up to the selected temperature, fan would then eventually stop, but any subsequent demand for heat and it would not restart and the boiler would go to lockout again. So self diagnosis the air circulation motor is US, cue new one at £75 that I have now fitted, the old motor connected to a separate power supply in the house did indeed stall and stop so I was full of confidence I'd sussed it. So battery voltage is fine at 12.8v, gas bottle full and all other gas appliances working, even all burning together as I wanted to eliminate a gas reg problem, I have had all the PCB board connectors off, and reseated them, and checked the two fuses on the main PCB, and the one on the power board PCB, all of the wiring is secure still no joy, in fact since changing the motor it has now stopped working altogether, no solenoid clicks or any other sounds apart from the circulation fan at start up at all now, but no lock out red light on the control switch, but the new air circulation motor does start every time now, so all a bit of a mystery. I have now got the unit out altogether, Jesus that was unbelievable, but not really sure what that's going to achieve apart from making it easier to examine,and maybe take a look at the combustion fan to see if it turns freely by hand I'm out of ideas now, On a broader note I cannot believe a manufacturer could site a unit that would involve virtually taking the kitchen apart, there you go though, acres of empty space under the fixed bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 For what it's worth, Rapido has had (and still has) a general policy of installing Truma combination heaters in the kitchen furniture if it's at all practicable. In fact, the 2014 Rapido brochure proclaims that "The Truma heating system is located, in most models, in the kitchen area, i.e. in the central part of the vehicle, to provide the best output possible and even radiant heat to the front and rear of the vehicle. This location was determined from tests conducted by the supplier and RAPIDO." While it's undoubtedly true that locating a Truma combination heater centrally in a motorhome is technically optimum as it should allow equalisation of air trunks' lengths, and that burying the appliance in a kitchen unit saves space, it does conflict with the following Truma advice regarding installation for a C-6002EH appliance: "Choice of location The unit and its exhaust system must be installed in such a way that they are easy to access for service work (particularly the resetting of the 230 V overheating switch) at all times and are easy to remove and install." Even when an external access hatch is provided, it will only ever be possible to carry out very limited maintenance/repairs on a Truma combination heater via the hatch. (Rapido isn't the only offender. I recall discussing heater accessibility with a Truma rep years ago and being told that they dreaded Hymers coming into their workhop for attention as so much disassembly was often needed to allow the heater to be worked on.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Due to the way it's been installed, if the fuse went on the power board complete dismantling of the kitchen is necessary, even then the resulting cupboard door opening is narrower than the boiler, and any human being other than a small child to get in to it........................ I've had to dismantle the cupboard carcase as well. :-( and the power board is directly under the external cold water fill point, God forbid it ever sprung a leak, fantastic eh So here's you bill sir, fuse £1.50............labour £65 x 8 = £520 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I recall a few years ago a customer with a Rapido with twin longitudinal rear beds and the heater was under the foot of one of them. Sadly the only access to the heater was through a couple of drawer openings (had to remove the drawers first) so totally inaccessible. Hymers are awful too, earlier this year I had to remove a C series from a Starline model Hymer. Initially it looked good as the heater was in a low down external locker with a big door. It soon became apparent that it wasn't going to be easy as the wardrobe floor was sitting hard on top of the heater so no room to lift the heater over the lip at the bottom of the locker. I have also encountered access difficulties in Autocruise models with the newer Combi heater. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Dave Newell - 2013-12-03 10:18 AM I recall a few years ago a customer with a Rapido with twin longitudinal rear beds and the heater was under the foot of one of them. Sadly the only access to the heater was through a couple of drawer openings (had to remove the drawers first) so totally inaccessible. Hymers are awful too, earlier this year I had to remove a C series from a Starline model Hymer. Initially it looked good as the heater was in a low down external locker with a big door. It soon became apparent that it wasn't going to be easy as the wardrobe floor was sitting hard on top of the heater so no room to lift the heater over the lip at the bottom of the locker. I have also encountered access difficulties in Autocruise models with the newer Combi heater. D. Perhaps they are thinking of guys like you to help earn a crust, :D but then again to have to give the customer a bill that would by necessity be out of proportion like my example to replace the fuse on the power PCB must be a nightmare. If it is at all possible, at this point I don't know for sure, I'm moving the whole bloody thing into the vast open wilderness that is the under bed space, van will look odd with two exhaust vents though :-( Dave your at the sharp edge, what system would you have in your van given the choice, if I end up giving up on this Truma, we did have an Eberspacher at one point, but servicing was a pain, and expensive and of course a separate water boiler was required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 If relocating it(or any other boiler) into the underbed space is "doable" and worth while, could the existing vent aperture be "masked" by fitting something like an external BBQ point into it...? Failing that, how "doable" would fitting a larger external access hatch be?..and would that give you the additional access needed? (..at least for access to the board/fuses..). Admittedly, you'd need to source/match a piece of panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 All worthwhile suggestions, but you really have to see the idiocy of this arrangement, to do anything other than replace a fuse ( which after all is normally a warning that something is amiss in any event ) would defeat anyone without taking it out......................you can imagine that right now I wish I'd kept my IH which was faultless over the four years we owned it.................................pity the Calor was so expensive for it though in some places :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 It's known as the Fifth Principle of motorhome design. The designer produces a wonderful on-paper layout, takes one last look at the drawings and then says to himself/herself "F*** IT - FORGOT THE HEATER!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 It sounds like these Truma's are quite a trauma.........I'd fit a gas fire and a separate hot water gas geyser ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Moved on a bit now after freezing my whotsits off, when the power is applied the circulation fan turns, a solenoid clicks, but the combustion fan ( partially taken off to see it ) does not turn at all, I've assumed it should start to run immediately, I've established there is a live 12 volt supply to it on the two outermost connections of four ( God knows what the inner two wires are for probably speed control ? ) but no go, someone else has said that means nothing, it's more likely the main PCB is knackered, mmmmm, anyone got one I can borrow to check :-S or anywhere I can take it to be checked given that I'm in the arse end of nowhere. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Mike, i assume this was purchased at a dealer? If so, cant you give him some earache? They could certainly swap the PCB to check your suspicions.....however, no doubt could be miles from you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 bolero boy - 2013-12-03 3:13 PM Mike, i assume this was purchased at a dealer? If so, cant you give him some earache? They could certainly swap the PCB to check your suspicions.....however, no doubt could be miles from you? It's a 400 mile round trip, but it may well come to that, but worth repeating my last experience of dealing with a dealer, and a very large dealer at that................perhaps many would understand my preferred option to sort it myself, If they would do as you suggest assuming they have one to swap that would be ideal though, mmmmmm :-S Are you sitting comfortably, then I'll begin. :-) The first arranged date for collection was cancelled due to a problem with the electric step. A 10 day period followed whilst we waited for news, the phone call never came,we had to keep phoning them. Finally collection day arrived and off we went with excitement to try out our "new" van. It was fabulous, immediately the electric step jammed in never to come out again, we then discovered the piezo ignition on the fridge did not work ( just as well we are on a hookup,) the Eberspacher heater fired up got nice and warm, but then would not restart till it was freezing cold again in the van. The bathroom tap constantly leaked water so we had to switch off the water pump, also at one point we noticed they had replaced one light fitting that we had originally pointed out as not working with one of a completely different design. To add insult to injury there had been a rather impressive piece of paperwork left in the van to say the vehicle had passed a full PDI and habitation check. This whole sorry saga lasted the whole of the summer with them telling us they could not get it booked in due to demands on their workshop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Thats a pi**er, Mike. Wich county did you have the pleasure to visit......no dealer names ;-) Have they sold your IH yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 bolero boy - 2013-12-03 5:22 PM Thats a pi**er, Mike. Wich county did you have the pleasure to visit......no dealer names ;-) Have they sold your IH yet? ee bah gum...............................and I wouldn't want to look for obvious reasons ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Rapido must be going backwards. Our 2005 Rapido did indeed have the heater under the double bed. It was at the time Truma were doing an upgrade which in our case was done at our house. Fitter commentated how unusual it was to find a layout with good access. As a bonus it kept your toes nice and warm at night when the weather was really cold. Our present British AutoTrail has the heater Ina separate enclosure in the garage. Looks as if access would be very easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-12-03 2:49 PM Moved on a bit now after freezing my whotsits off, when the power is applied the circulation fan turns, a solenoid clicks, but the combustion fan ( partially taken off to see it ) does not turn at all, I've assumed it should start to run immediately, I've established there is a live 12 volt supply to it on the two outermost connections of four ( God knows what the inner two wires are for probably speed control ? ) but no go, someone else has said that means nothing, it's more likely the main PCB is knackered, mmmmm, anyone got one I can borrow to check :-S or anywhere I can take it to be checked given that I'm in the arse end of nowhere. :D It's probably best that you experiment with the heater in water-heating-only mode, as it will be easier to hear what noises it's making. In water-heating-only mode (running on gas and with the water cold) when the heater is switched on the combustion fan should immediately start to rotate. Even though the fan is fairly quiet, it should be possible to hear it running. Then - after a few seconds- the gas-supply solenoid valve should open with an audible click and you should be able to hear the gas igniters firing. If the gas-burner fails to successfully light, the heater will go into fault mode and shut down. (As you've had a C-6002EH before, you are probably aware of the above, but you did say about the combustion fan "I've assumed it should start to run immediately" and, Yes, it should.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 May not be applicable to your Rapido , but ours (7090) has an access door behind the rear seating back rest cushion. Hope you solve the problem, Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 " Dave your at the sharp edge, what system would you have in your van given the choice" In our present camper which we converted ourselves we fitted a Propex space heater and a separate demand water heater as we don't have a shower so low demand for hot water. With hindsight I would not use a Propex again, damned thing is allergic to cold weather! If I were to do another I'd seriously consider a Trume E series for space heating but am quite happy to go with a demand water heater again. If I was going for a commercially built motorhome I'd be quite happy to have either a C series or Combi heater from Truma installed but one thing for certain it wouldn't be diesel fired! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-12-03 6:56 PM 1footinthegrave - 2013-12-03 2:49 PM Moved on a bit now after freezing my whotsits off, when the power is applied the circulation fan turns, a solenoid clicks, but the combustion fan ( partially taken off to see it ) does not turn at all, I've assumed it should start to run immediately, I've established there is a live 12 volt supply to it on the two outermost connections of four ( God knows what the inner two wires are for probably speed control ? ) but no go, someone else has said that means nothing, it's more likely the main PCB is knackered, mmmmm, anyone got one I can borrow to check :-S or anywhere I can take it to be checked given that I'm in the arse end of nowhere. :D It's probably best that you experiment with the heater in water-heating-only mode, as it will be easier to hear what noises it's making. In water-heating-only mode (running on gas and with the water cold) when the heater is switched on the combustion fan should immediately start to rotate. Even though the fan is fairly quiet, it should be possible to hear it running. Then - after a few seconds- the gas-supply solenoid valve should open with an audible click and you should be able to hear the gas igniters firing. If the gas-burner fails to successfully light, the heater will go into fault mode and shut down. (As you've had a C-6002EH before, you are probably aware of the above, but you did say about the combustion fan "I've assumed it should start to run immediately" and, Yes, it should.) To be honest I had no idea these units had two fans, but as I'm fairly mutt and jeff hearing anything is sometimes a challenge even with my aid stuck in my ear, information to how and when the combustion fan kicks in is a little thin on the ground, but I've now partially taken it out and it definatley does not run, but is that a fault with the fan, or the PCB, that's the £500 + question on a heater that parts are apparently become scarce for :-( may just use the gas kettle and hot water bottles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Dave Newell - 2013-12-03 7:42 PM " Dave your at the sharp edge, what system would you have in your van given the choice" In our present camper which we converted ourselves we fitted a Propex space heater and a separate demand water heater as we don't have a shower so low demand for hot water. With hindsight I would not use a Propex again, damned thing is allergic to cold weather! If I were to do another I'd seriously consider a Trume E series for space heating but am quite happy to go with a demand water heater again. If I was going for a commercially built motorhome I'd be quite happy to have either a C series or Combi heater from Truma installed but one thing for certain it wouldn't be diesel fired! D. Funny how we used to get by with a kettle for hot water, and the gas oven ( I kid you not ) for a bit of warmth together with gas mantles back in the day, :-) CO2 poisoning had obviously not been invented then :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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