Cliffy Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 If you have been following my previous thread re the smashed windscreen, I need some advice on doing the repair. Should I just bite the bullet and put it in the hands of experts and pay what it costs or should I DIY it. I am pretty handy doing most things but the last fibre glassing I did was on the sill of a 1960s Austin 1100. I have read much on here about gel coats etc. I don't want to make bodge of it storing up problems for the future. The area damaged is on the front of the over cab as shown in the photo. Any advice would most appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Looks to me like its just Gel coat damage. If that's the case see if AT can supply the correct shade, or failing that the RAL number, then you can get some mixed yourself. Of coarse you might have a variation in shade due to weathering, but given it's such a small area I doubt it would be noticeable. I'm sure you could do a decent job Cliffy! - Provided you set about it the right way and in the right conditions. Maybe before having a go yourself get a quote from a GRP specialist or boat builder [assuming you have one within a realistic distance] - there is a dark art to really good GRP repair work, I see guys weaving their magic most days...underrated in my opinion. Might not be as expensive as you think ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 I think that is good advice globetrotter. The glass fibres are actual well exposed and some are broken and pertuding, will that make any difference to your recommendation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I doubt it - not really an area with structural loading. I would cover the exposed GRP with some duck tape to keep out the elements short-term....don't be tempted to contaminate the substrate with anything else though. If you want, PM me a couple of close up pics - my guess is as there is a return in the moulding at that point, the GRP might be a bit thicker anyway - important to check for any crazing in the locality too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Cliff, is this damage a direct result of the windscreen breakage? If so, won't the insurers play ball over a complete repair to all damage or will the excess be more and this result in a 'claim' as opposed to just 'windscreen replacement'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I'm not recommending any particular company here but if you Google something like Caravan Medic who specialise in SMART (Small and Medium Area Repair Technique) repairs for caravans and motorhomes you should find someone that could do this for you. There are specialists for all sorts of SMART repairs and believe me once they have finished you would never know there has ever been any repair carried out. A friend of mine used to have a chap call round regularly to his car sales showroom to repair minor dings and stone chips. Once he had finished the cars looked as though they had never had any damage. Using SMART specialists will ensure you get a perfect colour match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 Thanks for you replied and advice. I thought about claiming the body damage as part of the glass repair but thought they may turn it round and say the glass was damaged as a result of a collision and loose some NCD. I have contacted Caravan Medical and they are going to quote on view of photos. I think if it is a sensible price I will get them to do it and some other GRP areas, damaged by the previous owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 I have been quoted £280 for the repair. I think this is a bit steep. I have had a look at some videos on You Tube and it does not look that difficult so may have a go myself when the weather improves and I have sourced the materials I need to do it, they don't look particularly expensive.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Yeah........like £200 too steep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 peter - 2014-01-03 5:09 PM Yeah........like £200 too steep. Exactly what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Cliff, Look at it another way, say your MH is worth £30k, the cost of the repair is then less than 1% of its value. If the repair is done well it should not be visible and will not detract from the value. If done poorly and hence visible it will reduce the resale value by far more then £280. That's my view on things! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 280 does seem very steep, GRP repairs are easy, the stumbling block will be colour matching the Gel Coat. For the retail market Gel Coats are only available in basic colours. For boats builders normally supply repair kits never seen any for Motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 That price is way over the top! I reckon £100 would be the max and around a couple of hours at most, start to finish - and he'll be sitting on his butt for half that time 8-) Maybe there's lots of travelling involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I used some gel coat repair and colour matched by adding artist's acrylic paints. Getting a smooth shiny finish is difficult though, as the gel coat repair is as hard as the original I'd find someone who knows what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 It might be a bit steep but like has been said do you want a repair that restores the original finish and the colour matches? If so than IMO it's good value. There's other people out there doing these repairs so just try for a couple more quotes from other than Caravan Medic. Doing it yourself I doubt very much if you will manage an 'invisible' repair. To get a colour match you need a colour analyser and the necessary base colours to be able to mix it to the correct colour. The SMART guys have this kit.......it's not cheap, nor is the rest of the kit they need to do an invisible repair. Bottom line is you get what you pay for....and the guy has to make a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avensis Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Check if the damage area could let in water,if only surface damage flat with 80 grit p/ paper. Apply a thin layer of polyester filler ( plastic padding pp50) flat when dry. You then have an option prime & gloss or apply a fine pp gelcoat, this has a white hardener and will blend into the white grp surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 avensis - 2014-01-04 1:41 PM Check if the damage area could let in water,if only surface damage flat with 80 grit p/ paper. Apply a thin layer of polyester filler ( plastic padding pp50) flat when dry. You then have an option prime & gloss or apply a fine pp gelcoat, this has a white hardener and will blend into the white grp surface. I have been down to check the van today and found it is letting water. :-{ I have taped it up temporally whilst I decide on a course of action. Does that mean I can not use this process you have suggested? I looked closer at the damage today and it is as if the gel coat has been quite cleanly ripped off exposing the glass fibre underneath which has very little damage. What is the process you would recommend in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well Cliffy, You're getting advice from people in the know........ Is this the first chance you've had to return since you noticed the damage? - I'll assume that the ingress tally's with the location of the exposed GF, if that is the case then the fibres must be dry and wicking and/or the initial damage was enough to 'bruise' the resin substrate and breach it. The answer to the question is - yes you could, but as I suggested earlier you need to look very carefully at the surrounding area. You may find that a more extensive repair is required.....but only if you are sure that the ingress really does emanate from the same location Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I've built 3 boats, 2 of them GRP, and moulded lots of bits for them over the years, but I don't consider myself an expert, and I think we should be very cautious about diagnosis from photographs. Are we sure that this is impact damage?, I'm not sure, it looks a bit more fundamental than that, and may be that minor impact damage has exposed something more like poor moulding. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 FWIW, I would think it necessary to examine the GRP from the inside before it is possible to say what is really at fault. There appears to be no damage immediately above or below the area Cliffy has photographed. If the projectile that smashed the windscreen bounced off the overcab pod, why isn't there (apparently) any other impact damage to the pod? Even if the projectile merely grazed the pod, there should surely be at least some scratching or gouges at the impact point? Cliffy has said he has examined the roof, so I assume there is no damage yet to be discovered to the top of the pod. It looks somewhat as though, for whatever reason, the joint between the two sections has sprung. That may be due to impact, or to poor trimming of the lower section when de-moulded, leaving an insufficient lap to fully bond to the upper. I assume this can only be seen from inside with internal trim locally removed. Making a cosmetic, external, repair if the problem is as I am suggesting, will achieve nothing in the longer term. All I'm suggesting, before someone shouts scaremonger or pessimist :-), is that it would be worth thoroughly examining the cause of the fault before reaching a repair conclusion. Even with the gel coat damaged the underlying GRP should surely be proof agianst rain, but it seems it is leaking. If the result of the examination is that all is fine, then that is good, and a simple cosmetic repair will do the job. If not, getting the right resin and catalyst may not be that straightforward, and may necessitate a visit to a specialist. Better safe than sorry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avensis Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Same company make a two pack glass fiber paste, make sure the area to be repaired is dry.Apply one light coat ( will dry in aprox 15 mins depending on air temp)then follow the previous instructions. Good MHing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The resin or catalyst won't be a problem - It looks a straightforward CSM lay-up, but as I voiced earlier ....IF it is leaking from the same location then the actual original lay-up is 'dry' or damaged enough to allow ingress. I might just be that the 'seam' behind has cracked - I can't really tell from the photo if that is a one piece or jointed pod mould? If it is a seam, it will depend on how those two moulds are joined - but I would at least expect a powder-bound mat to have been used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Just had another look at the photo I'm inclined to agree with Brian there is no sign of surface damage. my opinion is the joint has separated & flexing has caused the gel coat to crack. Does not appear to be enough damage for water ingress to be a problem so I think the joint has separated a lot more along it's length than is obvious from first inspection. If this is the case with the amount of rain and high winds we have had water could easily get blown up under the joint. I think the entire joint probably needs separating and re-sealing. Does not appear to be a very satisfactory construction for a joint right at the front of the cab, imagine the pressure on it driven at 70mph into a 30mph headwind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Cliffy - 2014-01-04 10:51 PMavensis - 2014-01-04 1:41 PMCheck if the damage area could let in water,if only surface damage flat with 80 grit p/ paper. Apply a thin layer of polyester filler ( plastic padding pp50) flat when dry. You then have an option prime & gloss or apply a fine pp gelcoat, this has a white hardener and will blend into the white grp surface.I have been down to check the van today and found it is letting water. :-{ I have taped it up temporally whilst I decide on a course of action. Does that mean I can not use this process you have suggested? I looked closer at the damage today and it is as if the gel coat has been quite cleanly ripped off exposing the glass fibre underneath which has very little damage.What is the process you would recommend in this case? Please ignore....double post.....finger trouble or maybe an overexcited mouse...... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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