Leisure Batteries

[grandadbaza]

Been having problems with batteries going down to quickly so now at home and did some checks , it would seem to me that the batteries are in need of replacement but would appreciate views from some one more knowledgeable than me . One battery is the one that came with the van from new the other is one I bought the first week I had the Van , they are both 110ah elecsol , van was built May 2010 .

These are the tests I have done , covered Solar panel , switched of charger on Sargent 325 psu

Yesterday at 12.30 pm I turned off the mains charger (which had been on for at least a week ) the voltage on the control panel above the hab door read 12.9 v at 1.10pm it read 12.7v and at 3.20 pm it read 12.7v , I then put the combi heater on heating on electric on low setting of 3

At 10.00am this morning the reading was 12.4v , I then switched the status aerial booster on and the 12v tv which the manual says is 32w at 11.15 am the reading was 10.8 v. I switched off tv and status and the reading went up to 11.2 v.

I then checked the voltage at the battery terminals ,with multimeter , while connected Batt 1 read 11.54v and Batt 2 read 11.58 with positive terminals disconnected it read Batt 1 11.43v and Batt 2 12.53v

I then removed Batt 1 as I thought it was that one dragging the other down , when I reconnected Batt 2 the reading at terminals was 12.41v

inside on panel over the door it read 12.1v with nothing connected when I switched on heating it went down to 11.5v so I then switched on status and tv and the reading went down to 9.6v and the panel was flashing and beeping

 

The tv is a Cello 12v and the manual says it uses 32w

 

It has been suggested to me that the batteries are duff and someone has reccommended these ,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281190017806?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649&clk_rvr_id=577784452641

I would appreciate any feedback

 

Regards

 

Baza

[audgreen]

Suggest you have the batteries load tested. Think kwikfit do them. If you have to replace them would recommend Banner. Bit dearer but you get what you pay for.

[Bulletguy]

grandadbaza - 2014-01-26 1:35 PM

 

Been having problems with batteries going down to quickly so now at home and did some checks , it would seem to me that the batteries are in need of replacement but would appreciate views from some one more knowledgeable than me .

 

It has been suggested to me that the batteries are duff and someone has reccommended these ,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281190017806?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649&clk_rvr_id=577784452641

I would appreciate any feedback

 

 

Surprised nobody has jumped on this one as Leisure Battery 'technology' is a firm favourite among the board Scientists and Physicists.

 

Any Garage will test them for you without charge (no pun intended) in a matter of seconds. They are probably knackered and if so, 82 quid per 125 Ah battery with 4 year warranty is the 'right money'.

 

[Madge Gentle]

Quote from a local Battery Distributor – 'Elecsol batteries are no more than glorified car batteries and unsuitable to be used as a Leisure battery in a motorhome'

 

My tried and tested MH leisure battery weighs 24.4 kilos, an Elecsol Leisure battery from my last motorhome weighed 16.5 kilos and my saloon car battery weighs 12.5 kilos - how much do your Elecsols weigh?

 

If they don't weigh around 25 kilos then they never were up to the job and should be replaced.

 

The heavier the better is usually a bench mark for batteries.

 

Try Googling 'Elecsol rubbish' and read the threads.

[grandadbaza]

Madge Gentle - 2014-01-26 5:41 PM

 

Quote from a local Battery Distributor – 'Elecsol batteries are no more than glorified car batteries and unsuitable to be used as a Leisure battery in a motorhome'

 

My tried and tested MH leisure battery weighs 24.4 kilos, an Elecsol Leisure battery from my last motorhome weighed 16.5 kilos and my saloon car battery weighs 12.5 kilos - how much do your Elecsols weigh?

 

If they don't weigh around 25 kilos then they never were up to the job and should be replaced.

 

The heavier the better is usually a bench mark for batteries.

 

Try Googling 'Elecsol rubbish' and read the threads.

 

I have just weighed the one that I took off earlier Elecsol 110ah that according to the spec should be 25kg . it was 19kg.

When I buy the replacements I will make a point of weighing them >:-(

[Keithl]

And (IIRC) Elecsol have now gone out of business!

 

Try searching this forum from about a month or so ago.

 

Keith.

[Mickt]

Just had alook at alphaline batteries.Has anybody used them and what do they think.

[Brambles]

The alpha batteries linked specification is total BS and inclued the product descriptions as well.

They are 100 cycles at 50 dod and less at 60% dod. 500 cycle is when you only discharge 20% of the full capacity. They are 100 Ah at 20 hour rate not 110.

 

They are classed by the manufacturer as a marine dual starter and deep cycle capable as are most leisure batteries in this price range. That means limited deep cycles as is reflected in the cycle life specified.

 

Banner will give you many many more cycles at 60% dod. and can be topped up, have a lower self discharge rate (important when storing over winter) and lower water consumption.

[grandadbaza]

Thanks Brambles , If you dont mind could you explain what the difference is between these 3 batteries , I have seen from your previous posts you have recommended Varta

 

http://www.barden-ukshop.com/varta-professional-lfs105---105ah-deep-cycle-leisure-battery-delphi-be105-54m-or-d54-105v-2274-p.asp

 

https://www.batterypitstop.co.uk/product/402/

 

http://www.tayna.co.uk/LFS105-Varta-Leisure-Battery-811053057-P7867.html

 

thanks

Baza

[Brambles]

Oh dear, knew someone would ask at some point. Varta are doing my head in with all their changes over the years. They used to do a really good range but they have changed all their offerings and pushing the AGM leisure battreries now for leisure deep cycle use.

 

OK, the LFS has replaced the A24 short code as far as I can tell. The A24 had a cranking amps of 570amps which would have been about correct for a semi traction type of over 100ah.

However the new LFS has a cranking amps of 750 and is a dual starter deep cycle.

 

So the three you have listed appear to be the same. The pitstop using a generic picture. His spec is correct. Barden have the original 105Ah CCA spec. Tayna do not give a CCA spec.

Quite a difference in price and suropised Tayna are so expensive.

Anyway, its a good battery as a dual starter cycle battery, and great for light cycle duty but the Banner will be better. However what I do not have is details of water consumption and self dicharge rates. Varta has always been good in this respect but if that still applies I do not know. It has been increasingly hard over the years to get full specs from Johnson Controls (varta).

 

Exide have also been doing my head in because a few months ago they had an excellent equipment battrey and now when I look they seem to only offer dual starter deep cycle. What has happened to the equipment battrey which was a semi traction I do not know. Yet again we are talking about a cycle life of 150 with 60%dod.

 

So this just now leaves Banner as readily available which is a semi traction ( ignoring going the route of 6 volt Trojan Batteries)

 

The problem is 10 years or so ago flooded semi traction was very popular, but the industry has moved over to using AGM as not much more expensive now as they were and offerng good value. Maybe we should do the same and many notorhomers do, but they are a more expensive outlay. The flooded offerings were always good value v capacity and life. Maybe not so much now.

 

You really need to look at your profile of use. Heavy deep cycling a lot, occassional cycling or light duty and whether solar panels are fitted or not. For most who use hook up every night away they need just what I call a buffer battery for coffee halts. The flooded varta or exide liesure batteries are perfect for this, but so is almost any battery. The problem choosing arises when you start deep cycling occassionally and you need to strike a balance between wearing the battery out and it naturally aging over the years. What abuse you might give it like letting it self discharge to flat in storage and expect it to recover and so on. The Banner is a good choice as an all rounder but if you need better then AGM or gel is the route to take for performance and safeguarding against accidental abuse.

 

You very much pay for what you get with batteries, ignoring the vendors over-charging and the vendors with really good special offer deals. A while ago SAF motor factors where selling the Bosch batteries , the old type Varta batteries at an extremely good price but no longer as far as I know. I suspect they were buying up old stock of dry batteries. (Lead acid batteries can survive years and years on the shelf if not filled with acid.) I think Bosch labelled them L5 but they now have changed their L5 batteries to the same latest ones from varta. Don't get me wrong, compared to most of the competition and all the budget batteries they are good batteries...just the Banner seems to be better as we do not need starting capability as a marine user might. We are a minority in the world of leisure batteries, teh marine users being far bigger. We should realy fall into the class of pleasure rides which use batteries, wheelchair users and golf buggies and yet again they very much have moved over to using AGM.

 

We very much have hobson's choice just now. Banner being the only reasonably good semi traction flooded at a sensible price. Darn! having said that, I better go and check their latest specs!!!!!

 

 

[grandadbaza]

Well thats was very informative ,

Taking you advice would 2 of these be ok "Banner Energy Bull Leisure Battery 95751 12V 100Ah" and I can get them delivered for less than the varta ones

 

Thanks

Baza

[Derek Uzzell]

grandadbaza - 2014-01-27 5:53 PM

 

Well thats was very informative ,

Taking you advice would 2 of these be ok "Banner Energy Bull Leisure Battery 95751 12V 100Ah" and I can get them delivered for less than the varta ones

 

Thanks

Baza

 

You haven't said what make/model of 2010 motorhome you own but, from your photo and the fact that it started life with an Elecsol 110Ah battery, I'm pretty sure it's an Auto-Trail.

 

I think a 2010 Auto-Trail carries its standard single leisure-battery in a 'battery-box' that has room for a 2nd battery that can easily be connected to the first one by a wiring-harness available from Auto-Trail. I think an Elecsol 110Ah battery's dimensions were 353mm (Length) x 175mm (Width) x 190mm (Height).

 

Those are all suppositions but, if correct and you wanted to replace your Elecsol batteries and have the new batteries fit into the battery-box, you'd need batteries that have near enough the same dimensions as the Elecsol ones. I don't think any of the batteries you provided links to earlier would fit - they would all be too tall.

 

The Banner 95751 does match the Elecsol's dimensions. It's fitted as standard nowadays by Rapido and (I believe) by Auto-Trail. When independent tests of 'leisure' batteries have been carried out, Banner's "Energy Bull" has headed the field. (Energy Bull batteries should be fitted with vent-tubes, but I'd expect that to have been so with your Elecsol batteries.)

 

If you are prepared to pay the asking-price of a pair of Energy Bull 95751 batteries (around £220?), you'll be buying products from a company with a good reputation, that have performed well during tests and that are fitted as standard by major motorhome manufacturers (though Auto-Trail choosing Elecsol batteries wasn't the greatest of ideas in retrospect!) And Brambles likes them.

 

You could get cheaper batteries and dearer, but two 95751s would be a logical choice.

[grandadbaza]

Thanks Dereck,

Good detective work , it is in fact a Auto Trail Comanche and yes there was a space for another battery which I had fitted from new ,

The compartment will actually accommodate higher batteries than the present Elecsol as there is a height of 290mm in the box

 

I think I will go for the Banner batts , just wanted some endorsements for my decision

 

Thanks for you input

[Brambles]

Have reminded myself of the banner specs. The water consumption and self discharge is higher than the old varta's were. However this is the price you pay for a long life deep discharge battery. So some maintenance required during their lifetime to top up. However they would still outperform budget batteries even if never maintained, and most certainly outperform your Elecsols which were known for being heavy drinkers and very high self discharge.

I never did like Elecsol as a company and never liked their batteries and wild claims.

Anyway, no problems with your decision to get Banner. As Derek has pointed out watch the size and add vent tubes to the venting hole position at end of top plate. There should be a vent position at each end. You remove one plug and keep other unused end plugged.

[grandadbaza]

Thanks for all your input , I will order them tomorrow

 

Baza

[Derek Uzzell]

You are probably aware of this, but - as you've got plenty of height available in the battery-box - you could fit a pair of Energy Bull 95901 115Ah batteries instead of the 100Ah 95751 ones. There would be a price premium, but it might not be much if you shopped around. On the other hand, as you'll have 200Ah with the 95751s, would you have any real need for 230Ah?

 

Energy Bull details are on the following webpage and include vent-tube fitting instructions

 

http://www.bannerbatterien.com/banner/produkte/batterien/energy_bull/index2_en.php

[grandadbaza]

Derek Uzzell - 2014-01-28 8:11 AM

 

You are probably aware of this, but - as you've got plenty of height available in the battery-box - you could fit a pair of Energy Bull 95901 115Ah batteries instead of the 100Ah 95751 ones. There would be a price premium, but it might not be much if you shopped around. On the other hand, as you'll have 200Ah with the 95751s, would you have any real need for 230Ah?

 

Energy Bull details are on the following webpage and include vent-tube fitting instructions

 

http://www.bannerbatterien.com/banner/produkte/batterien/energy_bull/index2_en.php

 

 

Yes 200ah should be enough, just looked at the link you sent and it says the degassing hose with elbow is not included ,you would think that at the price of the batts they would include it

 

Thanks

Baza

[grandadbaza]

grandadbaza - 2014-01-28 10:36 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2014-01-28 8:11 AM

 

You are probably aware of this, but - as you've got plenty of height available in the battery-box - you could fit a pair of Energy Bull 95901 115Ah batteries instead of the 100Ah 95751 ones. There would be a price premium, but it might not be much if you shopped around. On the other hand, as you'll have 200Ah with the 95751s, would you have any real need for 230Ah?

 

Energy Bull details are on the following webpage and include vent-tube fitting instructions

 

http://www.bannerbatterien.com/banner/produkte/batterien/energy_bull/index2_en.php

 

 

Yes 200ah should be enough, just looked at the link you sent and it says the degassing hose with elbow is not included ,you would think that at the price of the batts they would include it

 

Thanks

Baza

 

 

 

Spoke to Tayna , and they told me the degassing tube is not necessary as my batteries are in an outside locker with some ventilation does anyone dissagree with them

[Brambles]

Depends how much ventilation. It does no harm to fit vent tubes for the cost of pennies. If your original batteries had vent tubes then easy to transfer across. If not then you should be looking for ventialltion similar to what a gas locker would have.

oh and remember to ask for further discount. Be tough, you are buying two batteries. If you like them on face book you get a small discount. (FACEBOOK45) . So why should forum members not get a discount, after all a lot of business goes their way from these forums.

[grandadbaza]

Brambles - 2014-01-28 12:08 PM

 

Depends how much ventilation. It does no harm to fit vent tubes for the cost of pennies. If your original batteries had vent tubes then easy to transfer across. If not then you should be looking for ventialltion similar to what a gas locker would have.

oh and remember to ask for further discount. Be tough, you are buying two batteries. If you like them on face book you get a small discount. (FACEBOOK45) . So why should forum members not get a discount, after all a lot of business goes their way from these forums.

 

Thanks for that , not a lot of chance of a discount as they dont have any 95751's and wont get any till end of Feb , she said I would be just as well off with a Varta 90ah , I said thanks but no thanks , this was the same person that promised to ring me back yesterday when they could get stock of the Varta I sent you the link to .she apologised today for not ringing me but said she still does not know when she would get stock of that Varta .

Anyway sticking to your advice I stuck with getting the Banner , further searching took me to the Road Pro website and they had plenty of stock , I bought the 2 batteries and 2 vent pipes and the total was £7 dearer than Tanya was for just the batteries without vents , and has I have had good dealing with Road Pro (didnt know they did batteries although Banner is all they sell) I have orderd them and they said I will have them tomorrow

Thanks again

Baza

[Derek Uzzell]

grandadbaza - 2014-01-28 10:36 AM

 

Yes 200ah should be enough, just looked at the link you sent and it says the degassing hose with elbow is not included ,you would think that at the price of the batts they would include it

 

Thanks

Baza

 

I wouldn't expect any replacement battery (whatever its price) to be sold with a degassing-tube. As much as anything this is because the expectation would be that the replacement would be the same type as the battery it replaced. Consequently, if the original battery had needed a venting-tube (hopefully) it would have been fitted with one and the tube could then be transferred to the new battery. (Of course, if the original battery did not need a venting-tube and the replacement did, that assumption falls down.) I've never purchased batteries on-line but, when I've queried if the battery I was buying needed a venting-tube, the vendor has usually offered me one free of charge.

 

As Brambles advises, if a battery can accept a venting-tube it does no harm to fit one. That way, even when a battery is housed in a well-ventilated locker or in a vehicle's engine compartment, if the battery should start to 'gas' the chances of damage being caused will be minimised.

 

As you'll be buying from RoadPro you may well have read their advice on Banner batteries (that includes mention of venting-tubes). If not, it's here:

 

https://www.roadpro.co.uk/images/pdfs/Banner%20Batteries%20Information.pdf

[grandadbaza]

Hi , Batteries arrived this morning , just one more question , as I am fitting the vent tubes ( which appears optional) to these new Banner Batteries do I set my solar controller to vented or sealed , this is my controller

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solar-charge-controller-regulator-20A-12V-MPPT-LCD-/130762609916?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e720f14fc

 

Once again thanks for all yor help

[Brambles]

Hi. Just checked the data for the charger you have. You set it to vented.

 

http://www.e-sun.ro/upload/MPP_Solar/charge_controllers/MPPT/PCM-2012_24_user_manual.pdf

if you do not have detailed instruction this .pdf may be useful to you.

[grandadbaza]

Brambles - 2014-01-29 1:00 PM

 

Hi. Just checked the data for the charger you have. You set it to vented.

 

http://www.e-sun.ro/upload/MPP_Solar/charge_controllers/MPPT/PCM-2012_24_user_manual.pdf

if you do not have detailed instruction this .pdf may be useful to you.

 

Thanks you have been a tremendous help ,I really appreciate it and thanks for the download I have never had that manual

 

Baza