Security in a PVC

[Suda]

Please can anyone with a Fiat Ducato panel van, provide me with suggestions for the best way to increase the security on the sliding and rear doors. We have the manufacturers door lock on the key and a Sigma alarm, but I wondered if there should be external locks such as those provided by Van Gadgets. It has crossed my mind that thieves would cause more damage to a vehicle, the more security one has. Thankyou

[lennyhb]

If your security is obvious they are more likely to break into the van next door that doesn't have the additional security. A bit like alarms it won't stop them breaking in but they will go to van next door if that van doesn't have one and yours has.

[Brian Kirby]

You have, I think, a fairly new Rapido V56. Does this not come as standard with deadlocks? Have you investigated the way in which the deadlocks secure the doors, as most prevent the inner releases functioning once the deadlocking is activated. That means the doors will not open even if window glass is broken. This would not prevent entry, but it would make it, and getting out again, more difficult.

 

All the alarm will do is make a noise that, IMO, most will ignore.

 

I would suggest the most vulnerable elements of your van are liable to be the conversion windows, about which you can do relatively little.

 

If you want to make breaking the glass windows more difficult, you can get security film applied, which effectively prevents the broken toughened glass from being removed, so further complicating entry.

 

If you stll feel you want secondary locks, I would suggest Harrisons Locks (Google the name), who supply and will fit various good quality external locks that are fitted directly into the van doors, so cannot be levered off as can many of the superficial external locking devices.

 

But, above all, if your van already has deadlocks, make sure you have fully explored their capability before you buy anything else.

[ips]

I dont get this really, if we are talking about in storage then if there is no security or cameras dont use it, if were taliking about general parking up then if your in a situation were the area looks a bit dodgy what are you doing there, if were talking about on site then if the site looks dodgy enough that this is a concern then go somewere else. Bottom line is of course if some thieving scum bag wants to break in then they will so my point is dont go were said theiving scum might be. Which brings us nicely around to the reason many of us prefer bonifide sites rather than going wild.

for the record our cs has a locked gate at all times even though we have no theiving scum in our area . :-D

[Muswell]

Brian Kirby - 2014-03-29 2:25 PM

 

You have, I think, a fairly new Rapido V56. Does this not come as standard with deadlocks? Have you investigated the way in which the deadlocks secure the doors, as most prevent the inner releases functioning once the deadlocking is activated. That means the doors will not open even if window glass is broken. This would not prevent entry, but it would make it, and getting out again, more difficult.

.

 

 

If you look on You-tube you will see that it takes about 30 seconds to pick the locks on a Transit and a Peugeot Boxer. There wasn't a video for a Ducato but I don't imagine it is any harder.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Muswell - 2014-03-29 5:52 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2014-03-29 2:25 PM

 

You have, I think, a fairly new Rapido V56. Does this not come as standard with deadlocks? Have you investigated the way in which the deadlocks secure the doors, as most prevent the inner releases functioning once the deadlocking is activated. That means the doors will not open even if window glass is broken. This would not prevent entry, but it would make it, and getting out again, more difficult.

.

 

 

If you look on You-tube you will see that it takes about 30 seconds to pick the locks on a Transit and a Peugeot Boxer. There wasn't a video for a Ducato but I don't imagine it is any harder.

 

Indeed, there is hardly a lock made that someone can't pick. But my point was that the quick and dirty way of getting in by breaking a side window, and reaching in to release the doors from the inside, won't work if the van has deadlocks. If worried that someone is going to target your van to steal it, and is likely to come equipped for the job, then additional high security locks would be the logical solution. However, that risk varies depending on where the van is parked. If the area feels wrong then, as said above, best to move off.

 

It can, of course, happen, but I think the risk of theft of the van is relatively low for most motorhomers compared to the risk of someone just "doing" a window and snatching what they can see. After all, anyone wandering the streets with the picks and the means to by-pass the immobiliser is making a bit of a declaration of intent if stopped. Breaking a window requires no special equipment and little intelligence, and if the doors then open the whole theft takes less time than it takes to pick the lock.

[Guest pelmetman]

Sounds like you need to move 8-)................

[Muswell]

I don't think I said anything about theft of the van. My point was that it is quick to pick the locks, and the tools are easily available. But apart from that the tried and tested centre punch to the window followed by the entry of a smallish person through the window is an old favourite. I have seen cars broken into at midday on busy Camden High Street. The operation is quick, there are a few of them and they don't worry about being seen because it would be a foolish person who tried to intervene and risk a knife in the ribs. Even if the police arrive within a couple of minutes they have gone.

 

I think that all you can do is to leave nothing on view, be careful where you park, and hope for the best.

 

[capcloser]

Those security devices that turn and cover the lock can be opened easily mate had one on his motorhome and lost the key,guy on campsite showed us how very simple,also a hacksaw blade will break glass.He got robbed in spain they simply broke catches in toilet window,plastic i think so not a lot of cop

[Guest Peter James]

Thatcham (The Insurance Industry Standard) gives a good security rating for the X2/50 van. 4 out of 5 as I recall, thats better than the Sprinter. Deadlocks are standard, and its practically impossible to drive away without the key (so I have fitted a secret switch to mine so it won't start if they do get the key) The door window pillar is strategically placed to make it very difficult to climb in through a broken window. But as Brian points out, thats before they put the plastic windows in - the weakest point. Even so, its still probably more secure than many houses - and you have the option to drive away from trouble.

Again I agree with Brian - your biggest risk is a opportunistic smash and grab - so don't leave anything tempting on view and certainly not within reach of the window.

[Suda]

Thankyou all for your practical advice. We have been Motorhoming long enough to park in sensible places, near to others with MHs and obviously would avoid dodgy locations. I suppose it was just a general question so that when perhaps going to a supermarket, we do not have to leave one of us on guard duty in the van. But if we have to then we will.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Fit a safe.....

 

 

[Muswell]

Peter James - 2014-03-30 9:49 AM

 

Deadlocks are standard, and its practically impossible to drive away without the key

 

If only that were true. I speak from experience :-(

[Suda]

Eddy We seem to be constantly reading about motorhome theft and being retired ladies, we intend to make sure that we have no regrets and continue to travel far and wide in a secure camper vane itch laughter not tears!

[linfield]

Hi Brian is quite right a PVC has much better security than a coach built were some have just a plastic caravan door lock . you can only protect yourself by making sure not to much is on view to attract the scumbags to your van, over the van next door . Check with the insurance companies I think you will find they prefer ones with factory fitted dead locks. I have never felt unsafe in ours but we don't just park up anywhere

[peterjl]

Hi

 

For me I always feel that my van is most at risk in supermarket car parks. That may not be completely logical but I figure where there is lots of cars there are lots of thieves!

 

My solution is a van bitz alarm that also sends me a text if the alarm is triggered. I figure I could get back to van pretty smartish albeit check from a distance. We also often have our dog BUT she is a lab that.loves everyone plus she is getting old.

 

In some 8 years alarm has only been triggered once when someone tried to steal our bikes off the back and cut the alarm wire. That was at night in the aire at Calais. I seldom go to that aire these days.

 

Peter

[Guest JudgeMental]

agree re supermarket car parks...Look around and see if patches of broken glass around...personally a good idea if one stays in van while other shops. we do this ourselves depending on if we think location could be problematic.

 

Vans a lot more secure than CB's anyway. fit a safe and wear a money belt.

 

Brian, Van factory deadlocks: I thought they disable the auto locking on most conversions, certainly on my last 2 vans they have, as you can lock on central locking but open doors from inside....when this was discussed previously I thought it was a safety issue.

[lennyhb]

peterjl - 2014-03-31 2:30 PM

 

Hi

 

For me I always feel that my van is most at risk in supermarket car parks. That may not be completely logical but I figure where there is lots of cars there are lots of thieves!

 

My solution is a van bitz alarm that also sends me a text if the alarm is triggered. I figure I could get back to van pretty smartish albeit check from a distance. We also often have our dog BUT she is a lab that.loves everyone plus she is getting old.

 

In some 8 years alarm has only been triggered once when someone tried to steal our bikes off the back and cut the alarm wire. That was at night in the aire at Calais. I seldom go to that aire these days.

 

Peter

 

All very well but not unheard of for a text to take a couple of hours to come through occasionally and guess which one will be delayed. (lol)

 

Tend to use either Boulogne or Dunkirk supermarkets these days avoid Calais ones & City Europe, friends had bikes taken from back of their car in Calais another friend van broken into at City Europe also lots of reports of vans broken into at the Calais Auchen. Iv'e seen all the illegals bowing to Mecca just the other side of the fence at the rear car park at the Auchen.

[Guest Peter James]

Muswell - 2014-03-30 10:51 AM

 

Peter James - 2014-03-30 9:49 AM

 

Deadlocks are standard, and its practically impossible to drive away without the key

 

If only that were true. I speak from experience :-(

 

Are you saying they started the engine and drove your X2/50 van away under its own power without the key?

[Brian Kirby]

JudgeMental - 2014-03-31 5:05 PM............Brian, Van factory deadlocks: I thought they disable the auto locking on most conversions, certainly on my last 2 vans they have, as you can lock on central locking but open doors from inside....when this was discussed previously I thought it was a safety issue.

You're right. I'd forgotten that bit. However, I believe it can be reversed by the dealers through the van's electronics? Not familiar with the SEVEL version of deadlocking, but most seem to use a double hit system, where tha first press on the zapper locks the doors, and a second press activates the deadlocking. At least, that was what the Transit did. So, if occupying, don't use the deadlocks, or make sure you have the keys to hand so that you can unlock if you need to get out sharpish. When not occupying, set the deadlocks.

 

Don't know where these dodgy supermarkets all are, though! We've parked at supers all over, and I've only felt a bit uneasy at one in Bologna where there were height barriers and we had to leave the van on a service road. However, there were quite a vew work vans around, so it didn't stand out as it would have on its own. We often combine a food stop with a lunch break, so depending on time, either eat and shop, or shop and eat. I've never yet noticed anyone taking an undue interest in the van while parked. First someone has to be intent on theft, and then has to be at whatever super at the same time as you are there. Since our supermarket stops are random events, and we seldom see more than a couple of other vans in the car park, and usually none, anyone calculating on fixing their financial woes by raiding motorhomes in supermarket car parks would die of starvation before they got a hit! The obvious exception is the supers near the ferry ports, but there are plenty of alternatives down the road that the Channel-bound Brits just tend to scud by. We use them, and the prices (and the wine selection) often seem a bit better as well!

 

Igoumenitsa port was a different story, but we were just waiting for a ferry there, not shopping. Once the human contriband had sussed there was nowhere to stow away on our van, they diverted their attention to stowing away on the trucks, and settled down to play cat-and-mouse with the local police. Great entertainment for the hour or so we were there! :-)

[Muswell]

It was a 2010 Transit actually. Yes no key and no transporter. The police said it's quite easy. There was an Aston Martin parked nearby and they said that was one of the most secure vehicles but it wouldn't take long.

[Guest Peter James]

Brian Kirby - 2014-03-31 7:31 PM

Not familiar with the SEVEL version of deadlocking, but most seem to use a double hit system, where tha first press on the zapper locks the doors, and a second press activates the deadlocking.

Yes, thats what my Citroen Relay (X2/50) Maxi Van does

 

 

Brian Kirby - 2014-03-31 7:31 PM I've never yet noticed anyone taking an undue interest in the van while parked. First someone has to be intent on theft, and then has to be at whatever super at the same time as you are there.

Not sugesting they follow a particular vehicle - just wait around the car park till one comes in. Then when they see you going into the supermarket they assume the vehicle is empty. Another reason I like to park on the street. Then they don't know where you are :-D

[Guest Peter James]

Muswell - 2014-03-31 7:33 PM

 

It was a 2010 Transit

 

Thatcham rated the X2/50 better than the Transit or Sprinter.

I think a lot of professional car thieves would like to know how they can start the engine without the key - given the lengths they go to - burglary and even hijacking - to get the key

I went to several locksmiths to get a spare key for my X2/50 and they all said they couldn't do that one because its new technology

[colin]

Not all x2/50's have deadlocking, I believe all UK supplied vans have it, or can have it reapplied, but not all Euro vans have it, ours doesn't and according to two Fiat garages it cannot be reprogrammed, but then these where the same two garages that couldn't adjust the SLD.

[Muswell]

Peter James - 2014-03-31 10:23 PM

 

Muswell - 2014-03-31 7:33 PM

 

It was a 2010 Transit

 

Thatcham rated the X2/50 better than the Transit or Sprinter.

I think a lot of professional car thieves would like to know how they can start the engine without the key - given the lengths they go to - burglary and even hijacking - to get the key

I went to several locksmiths to get a spare key for my X2/50 and they all said they couldn't do that one because its new technology

 

One thing they can do it seems is to capture the signal from your remote and programme a new key, but obviously that takes some planning so it's not opportunist. BMWs had a weakness through the diagnostic socket ...and so on. A few months after our van was stolen we got a locksmith to do some work for us and what attracted us to him was his website that said that if he had to drill out your lock he would replace it and charge nothing. He was a real enthusiast and went to lock-picking competitions. Like the police he reckoned you could get into anything. The police in my case said they had recently raided a place near us and seized loads of computers, various electronic devices and blank keys. I am sure you are right that a lot of car thieves would like to know how to start a car without the key and for them the simplest way is just to steal the key but my faith in vehicle security will not be the same again.