Autosleeper, Autocruise, Autotrail

[Frank McAuley]

References to Autotrail and Autosleeper are noted; my present Atrail which is less than 3 yrs old has a damp issue at the frames of both rear locker (garage) doors . The Autosleeper was a endless stream of poor design and build quality.

 

Prior to purchasing across the channel I have taken a look at the "new" ( to me) Bailey mhomes which appear to have involved modern design/construction and they are impressive! Does anybody have any knowledge or experience of them?

 

I must say I am disappointed at a less than 3 yrs old Autotrail with damp issues but thankfully it is being attended to with no indication of the problem elsewhere!!! :-S

[Guest JudgeMental]

bolero boy - 2014-04-22 8:15 AM

 

Just to throw in a wild card suggestion for a MH that fits your requirements.....have a look at the Pilote G600LA. A class, drop down (non fixed) bed, good lounge, brit kitchen with full cooker, huge washroom and shower, double floor, fully winterised, approx £53+ Oh, and 5.99m long.

A really neat little van.

 

Chris the budget is approx 25K I believe ;-)

 

Selection of what europe can offer on budget....you can retrofit an oven to most if a deal breaker...decent dealer will do this.

 

http://tinyurl.com/koyth7w

[stevec]

I feel I must reply to Globebuster re the comment that I am "not actually prepared to really do any 'homework' on the subject". I have spent most of the past 6 weeks doing nothing but that. My several postings on this forum (and others) I hope is evidence of that . I expect we have done a lot more homework than some first time motorhomers. We have taken forum members constructive advice and just because we have not come to the same conclusions as some members does not mean that we have not done suffucient "homework". In fact we have started to look at some non UK models (Burstner, Rapido) mainly due to comments made on this forum. We have a short list of suitable models (for us) but that is being modified as we learn new information. We will no doubt learn more new things this weekend at Peterborough.

 

 

[bolero boy]

JudgeMental - 2014-04-22 9:39 AM

 

bolero boy - 2014-04-22 8:15 AM

 

Just to throw in a wild card suggestion for a MH that fits your requirements.....have a look at the Pilote G600LA. A class, drop down (non fixed) bed, good lounge, brit kitchen with full cooker, huge washroom and shower, double floor, fully winterised, approx £53+ Oh, and 5.99m long.

A really neat little van.

 

Chris the budget is approx 25K I believe ;-)

 

Selection of what europe can offer on budget....you can retrofit an oven to most if a deal breaker...decent dealer will do this.

 

http://tinyurl.com/koyth7w

Whoops, cheers Eddie.....been causing trouble over on the other side for a bit.....missed you guys... ;-)

[rupert123]

lennyhb - 2014-04-18 7:50 PM

 

 

 

If you want to avoid timber in the wall construction you need to be looking at Hymer, Carthago and more upmarket German vans.

This is what I meant about being out of date. Neither Swift or Elddis use wood in their construction now in either M/H's or caravans. Hymer though still persist with a rather out of date aluminium construction method. Aluminium is a vey good thermal conductor and will cause and carry condensation and we all know what can happen when you attach it to steel.

[johnnerontheroad]

rupert123 - 2014-04-22 5:07 PM

 

lennyhb - 2014-04-18 7:50 PM

 

 

 

If you want to avoid timber in the wall construction you need to be looking at Hymer, Carthago and more upmarket German vans.

This is what I meant about being out of date. Neither Swift or Elddis use wood in their construction now in either M/H's or caravans. Hymer though still persist with a rather out of date aluminium construction method. Aluminium is a vey good thermal conductor and will cause and carry condensation and we all know what can happen when you attach it to steel.

 

But they still get a damp problems.

 

Dave

[Brock]

Rupert, unsure where you get the 'no wood' in an Elldis because it advocates the use of wood in its new SOLID build process. I can't say for sure about Swift except that I don't think its new SMART HT construction method has found its way beyond flagship caravans. Swift backs a 10 year bodyshell warranty on 2014 motorhomes and Elldis has a 10 year water ingress warranty on all its products.

 

My first motohome in 1994, a one year old Elldis, started to fall to bits in its second year. My subsequent two new Swifts in '95 and '97 were made from driftwood. Fortunately, both were fixed under warranty at the first service by Swift although it does take time. My subsequent Arto [2000 model] and 2 Hymers ['05 and '13 plate] have not leaked. The current crop of Swifts are so much better than earlier Swift models but the OP is looking for an older motorhome and has already ruled out Swift and Elddis.

 

The top end range motorhomes use aluminium because it brings a rigidity to the shell. Hymer also design its vans to deal with condensation [see brochures]. Swift uses aluminium sides in some of its range.

 

To keep the balance, I can say the build quality on my one year old Hymer has resulted in some irritating niggly faults but the core design is excellent. The niggles are now sorted.

 

I've had 3 British vans over six years and 3 Germans vans over 14 years. Sadly, I find the score comes out at 3-0 in favour of the Germans on dryness.

[lennyhb]

johnnerontheroad - 2014-04-22 5:26 PM

 

But they still get a damp problems.

 

Dave

 

Very occasionally yes mainly on old examples, the chance of damp in the first 6 or 7 years very low, where as Swift or Elddis better than 95% chance these vans often have severe problems in the first year.

[johnnerontheroad]

lennyhb - 2014-04-22 7:01 PM

 

johnnerontheroad - 2014-04-22 5:26 PM

 

But they still get a damp problems.

 

Dave

 

Very occasionally yes mainly on old examples, the chance of damp in the first 6 or 7 years very low, where as Swift or Elddis better than 95% chance these vans often have severe problems in the first year.

 

I did mean Swift and Elddis.

[tonyg3nwl]

Further to my earlier response, I should add that prior to getting the Goodwill gesture To fix the Starfire, I got quotes frome 2 local repairers, lowest was 1200pound, highest 3 to 5000. Both with proviso that this was based on what they could see, not what the couldnt see.

both workshops were so busy that the best start date the could offer was 10 to 12 weeks, and a tour of one workshop revealed 5 or 6 coachbuilts in various states of stripout and repair. One was accident repair, the others were damp problems. I did not make a detailed note of makes, but there was an approximate equal balance of lhd and rhd . In spite of the critics who swear blind that foreign is best, you should remember that there is a greater percentage of uk than foreign on the uk market, so more likely that uk ones suffer . Statistics can be made to prove anything!!!.

 

Yes, I have taken a gamble on the repairs done on my present 09 plated Stargazer, and have been "reassured", by the "marvellous" 3 year warranty..( beleive that if you will???), but I have been caravanning etc for 45 plus years, so am not a newby..just sceptical of any sales talk and still daft enough to take a risk.

 

I hope the original author of this thread now has decided what to do, and enjoy the outcome whatever that may be.

 

tonyg3nwl

 

[lennyhb]

rupert123 - 2014-04-19 3:07 PM

Euro vans can be good but most are poorly equipped with bad resale values and are very hard to sell in the UK if LHD, dealer backup is bad to non existent You can of course save a few pounds, as has been said, if you buy in Europe but do you want the hassle and the savings are nothing like they used to be, you will also lose money on an import especially if it is lhd so cancel out any savings made.

 

How many vans have you brought from mainland Europe Henry as you seem to be making some very definite statements.

 

Cost wise it's a no brainer my new van is costing me over 20 grand less than the UK list price, do you think I would even get near the price in the UK - NO not chance.

 

As for selling an imported van, having just sold my RHD van, first thing I noticed was I could only sell it in the UK, now if it had been a LHD I could have sold it in any European country also if I had, had a problem selling it I could of part exchanged it as well, so for resale a LHD makes much more sense.

 

As for poorly equipped I've just sold a Hymer that I've had from new for 6 years hadn't noticed and thing lacking equipment wise, it had 150Lt fridge freezer, oven, LCD TV, Oyster Satellite System and many other features as STANDARD.

Can not see the point of UK vans with full size cookers with electric hot plates, microwaves and they never have a fixed table.

 

Every one is different and has different needs but for me a fixed bed and a fixed table are essential.

[lennyhb]

johnnerontheroad - 2014-04-22 7:06 PM

 

lennyhb - 2014-04-22 7:01 PM

 

johnnerontheroad - 2014-04-22 5:26 PM

 

But they still get a damp problems.

 

Dave

 

Very occasionally yes mainly on old examples, the chance of damp in the first 6 or 7 years very low, where as Swift or Elddis better than 95% chance these vans often have severe problems in the first year.

 

I did mean Swift and Elddis.

 

Phew! thank goodness for that, I was about to accuse you of blasphemy (lol)

[stevec]

As an update to where I am at this point in time (if I had to make a decision today) I'd go for a pre-Swift Autocruise Starfire around 2005 or 2006. I am also considering a 2008 Starfire in the hope that as it is registered late 2008 it would probably be made early to mid 2008 and not be subject to any Swift cost cutting measures. I shall phone Swift/Autocruise to get a manufacture date as I have the VIN number.

My requirements are:

RHD....most of our travelling will be UK based with maybe two trips abroad each year. This may change when we retire in a few years.

Sub 6m length....we have no space to store over this size

End kitchen....in our view it makes better use of the habitation space. UK weather does not guarantee that we can live outside all the time so this layout makes better use of the limited interior space. And I have been told on this forum that the right layout is crucial.

Cooker....although microwaves are now common and easily fitted. We will find out what we use the most.

 

I have seen several Rapido models sub 6m but are all fixed bed and small lounge areas. We dont consider a fixed table an asset. Personal preference. Again layout is a personal choice.

 

We may well alter our choices after Peterborough. We hope to see a selection of motorhomes there. Whether any of these will fit our budget criteria as well (max £25k) remains to be seen.

[globebuster]

I would hardly say what I witnessed on the Swift - Bessacar stand at the NEC as being out of date!

 

Regardless of materials used, the process of assembly and the skills to do the job properly are as relevant.

 

It's funny how when someone new comes along with a more radical build concept [bailey for example] that others are forced to react. I wonder if Elddis or Swift would have raised their game if it were not for a bit of new competition. Whether the Bailey Ali-tech concept works in reality is another matter - only time will tell.

 

I don't see any evidence of wood being totally eliminated from current offerings of any of the above.

 

I'm not anti- british - but evidence suggests that [regardless of UK market share] UK built vans do not compare well in terms of structural quality

[LordThornber]

http://www.baileyalu-tech.co.uk

 

Hunt the wood...

 

Martyn

 

[Brock]

My wife always insists on an oven and then grumbles about the space they take and that they don't cook consistently. She does use them though. I don't see the point of them if we have three rings.

 

Our van is 6m because of space constraints although we could go as far as 6.3m if we found a layout we liked in a van that size. Apart from the short drive, our estate road is narrow so we'd not turn anything bigger.

 

Good hunting at the show.

[Brock]

My wife always insists on an oven and then grumbles about the space they take and that they don't cook consistently. She does use them though. I don't see the point of them if we have three rings.

 

Our van is 6m because of space constraints although we could go as far as 6.3m if we found a layout we liked in a van that size. Apart from the short drive, our estate road is narrow so we'd not turn anything bigger.

 

Good hunting at the show.

[colin]

stevec - 2014-04-22 8:09 PM

 

As an update to where I am at this point in time (if I had to make a decision today) I'd go for a pre-Swift Autocruise Starfire around 2005 or 2006. I am also considering a 2008 Starfire in the hope that as it is registered late 2008 it would probably be made early to mid 2008 and not be subject to any Swift cost cutting measures. I shall phone Swift/Autocruise to get a manufacture date as I have the VIN number.

My requirements are:

RHD....most of our travelling will be UK based with maybe two trips abroad each year. This may change when we retire in a few years.

Sub 6m length....we have no space to store over this size

End kitchen....in our view it makes better use of the habitation space. UK weather does not guarantee that we can live outside all the time so this layout makes better use of the limited interior space. And I have been told on this forum that the right layout is crucial.

Cooker....although microwaves are now common and easily fitted. We will find out what we use the most.

 

I have seen several Rapido models sub 6m but are all fixed bed and small lounge areas. We dont consider a fixed table an asset. Personal preference. Again layout is a personal choice.

 

We may well alter our choices after Peterborough. We hope to see a selection of motorhomes there. Whether any of these will fit our budget criteria as well (max £25k) remains to be seen.

 

I've dipped in on a couple of your threads, from the little I've read you appear to be completely new to this, I would recommend you hire a van for a holiday and see how you get on with the layout, your assumption as to what works as a layout might be ok, but on other hand you might find you don't like it.

We spend a lot of time holidaying in UK and mainly outside of school holiday time (no July/August) so are well used to living in the van as opposed to sitting outside, our fixed bed is a real boon for us, we can spend 'time apart' whilst in the van, with one on the fixed bed whilst other is in dinette, proboly the only thing that keeps me sane during x factor time.

[globebuster]

Well I stand corrected Martyn.....

 

However, is the floor constructed the same way?

 

Most of the ingress I have witnessed seems to manifest itself in the floor area - no doubt due to road spray and/or water running off the body. I've commented before on the fact that with the general improvement in capping profiles used in recent years, that ingress is now probably more prevalent around windows, lockers and other apertures - and poorly protected floors.

 

Bailey should be applauded for developing advanced construction techniques - although I'd still be interested in the floor/sidewall join and general protection afforded, should wood still be present in the chassis base.

[johnnerontheroad]

Bailey have their very own built in water feature.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kugH8bU_44Y&feature=youtu.be

 

 

Dave *-)

[stevec]

Colin....thanks for your comments. We are new to motorhomes but not to "outside living". We were caravanners 10 to 15 years ago when the children were smaller. So we are used to living in a small space. The van we had was the smallest, lightest one we could find that would fit all four of us in (small tow car). That layout was similar to what we are looking for in a motorhome. The addition of the swivel seats at the front gives a bit of extra space as well as seating over what we had in the caravan. We believe it will work well for us but I don't for one minute believe that we will get everything right the first time. Whilst I note your comment about renting. I don't think it would be economic to hire vans with different layouts to compare how they work. You can't just hire one. If that doesn't work you'd have to try another layout. But I can appreciate that it may help in getting an overall feel for what a motorhome holiday is all about. We've come from tenting, through trailer tents and on to caravans, so we think we are happy that we will enjoy it.

 

We're looking forward to Peterborough. We will try different layouts in the light of people's comments on here. We shall also try to not look "beyond our means". I'm sure it is easy to do.

[colin]

Well as I said you may strike lucky and hit upon your perfect layout and yes your right renting every different layout would be impractical.

I've caravanned, tented and motorhomed since I was a small child, both gf and myself have spent time living in touring caravans, so you might think we would have no problem choosing a new van, well we very nearly got it wrong big time. Our last van was a VW and we where looking for something a bit bigger and the Adria Twin when it came out looked just the job, due to commitments at work and building a new house we put off buying one, then our van packed up, so we hired a WildAx Aurora Leisure which is similar to the Twin, it was a disaster, the transverse bed with me 'blocking' gf in bed brought out her claustrophobia big time, this lead us to get our 636sb, very similar to the Twin but with longitudinal bed which suits us fine.

[lennyhb]

Like you we came up the ranks to a Motorhome, we still hired a couple of vans although we couldn't hire the exact layout we wanted like Colin we did find out what we couldn't live with. We hired in Germany as it was about half the cost of hiring in the UK.

We went on to make the right choice which we have been happy with for nearly 6 years, we are now changing to a different layout hopefully we will have made the right choice again.

[kelly58]

Correct me if I am wrong , but haven't Morgan been making cars with wood for years .? Also how many aircraft can you name that are of wooden construction ?

[lennyhb]

kelly58 - 2014-04-22 11:16 PMCorrect me if I am wrong , but haven't Morgan been making cars with wood for years .? Also how many aircraft can you name that are of wooden construction ?

The answer lies in the quality of the wood, they don't use the cheapest untreated softwood they can buy. In Morgans the wooden body substructure is ash.