Autosleeper, Autocruise, Autotrail

[lennyhb]

johnnerontheroad - 2014-04-22 9:48 PM

 

Bailey have their very own built in water feature.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kugH8bU_44Y&feature=youtu.be

 

 

Dave *-)

 

Not only do they have the built in water feature, the way they are constructed you have to have the fixing between the panels tightened up after a couple of years to stop them falling apart and you are expected to pay for it yourself.

[colin]

kelly58 - 2014-04-22 11:16 PMCorrect me if I am wrong , but haven't Morgan been making cars with wood for years .? Also how many aircraft can you name that are of wooden construction ?

The early Morgan three wheelers are a bodgers delight, as they fall apart (and believe me they are renowned for that) they usualy get all sorts of dodgey repairs, which reminds me i've got a gearbox cover to repair for a customer.As for wooden aircraft! Great, if you store them in hangers, but you wouldn't want to leave them outside for weeks on end.

[rupert123]

lennyhb - 2014-04-22 7:17 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-04-19 3:07 PM

Euro vans can be good but most are poorly equipped with bad resale values and are very hard to sell in the UK if LHD, dealer backup is bad to non existent You can of course save a few pounds, as has been said, if you buy in Europe but do you want the hassle and the savings are nothing like they used to be, you will also lose money on an import especially if it is lhd so cancel out any savings made.

 

How many vans have you brought from mainland Europe Henry as you seem to be making some very definite statements.

 

.

I believe I have mentioned this before Lenny but my partner and I bought just short of 200 cars, vans and even a couple of lorry trailers in from Europe and Japan over a three year period. We stopped because it was no longer viable when both the Yen and the euro went up against the pound. I admit nothing in the last three years but things have got worse not better over this time. We had to make a profit on the transaction which you do not so this changes things a little however it is not difficult for anyone to work out the cost without actually doing it, I would assume you did this before you proceeded, or maybe not. I cannot make yours or Eddies figures work and would very much like to see a detailed breakdown of how you get them to arrive at an 'on the road' figure. To me it would make no difference as I will stick with my, so far, very reliable and damp free British built vans but remain unconvinced about the massive savings you appear to make. I can fully understand going to Europe to buy a van as the choice is far greater than in the very small British based euro market but would I personally want the hassle to save a few pounds, no certainly not. Have you managed to register yours yet?

[LordThornber]

lennyhb - 2014-04-23

the way they are constructed you have to have the fixing between the panels tightened up after a couple of years to stop them falling apart and you are expected to pay for it yourself.

 

Hi Lenny, I'd be grateful to you for your source on this information.

 

Martyn

[Guest JudgeMental]

A few pounds? mine well over 10K more here and that without the high spec which I negotiated into the price, try doing that here!lol On a coachbuilt as lenny said you can save double *-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

LordThornber - 2014-04-23 11:34 AM

 

lennyhb - 2014-04-23

the way they are constructed you have to have the fixing between the panels tightened up after a couple of years to stop them falling apart and you are expected to pay for it yourself.

 

Hi Lenny, I'd be grateful to you for your source on this information.

 

Martyn

 

that was discussed way back when it turned out you effectively had to pay for your own warranty...comedians :D

[Brian Kirby]

stevec - 2014-04-22 9:54 PM

 

Colin....thanks for your comments. We are new to motorhomes but not to "outside living". We were caravanners 10 to 15 years ago when the children were smaller. So we are used to living in a small space. The van we had was the smallest, lightest one we could find that would fit all four of us in (small tow car). That layout was similar to what we are looking for in a motorhome. The addition of the swivel seats at the front gives a bit of extra space as well as seating over what we had in the caravan. We believe it will work well for us but I don't for one minute believe that we will get everything right the first time. Whilst I note your comment about renting. I don't think it would be economic to hire vans with different layouts to compare how they work. You can't just hire one. If that doesn't work you'd have to try another layout. But I can appreciate that it may help in getting an overall feel for what a motorhome holiday is all about. We've come from tenting, through trailer tents and on to caravans, so we think we are happy that we will enjoy it.

 

We're looking forward to Peterborough. We will try different layouts in the light of people's comments on here. We shall also try to not look "beyond our means". I'm sure it is easy to do.

So, back to the original question, and to attempt a summary, you have shortlisted three of the best of the UK produced vans, you intend using in UK so LHD no advantage, and you are looking for the quintessential UK layout of end kitchen/washroom with centre lounge convertible for beds.

 

For you budget you are looking at vans from, say, 2003 on. They will mostly be on the "facelifted" older Fiat or Peugeot base, possibly an odd VW LT from Autosleepers. I think they should generally avoid the notorious fifth gear problem of earlier versions of the SEVEL vans, but I'm not sure when the new 5 gear boxes came into universal use. Someone will know, however.

 

Of the three makes, Autosleeper have a good reputation for factory support, Autotrail perhaps a little less so since the take-over by Trigano, and Swift will provide no useful assistance on vans made before they acquired Autocruise.

 

So, as an older van may have problems for which you may welcome some factory support, unless you are a confident DIYer, possibly Autocruise not the favourite. I'm not sure when Autosleepers were taken over by the Italian SEA group, but their quality seemed to suffer a wobble while under their influence. They subsequently bought themselves out, and the quality seems to have improved since. Again, someone is bound to know the critical dates when the quality may be less reliable.

 

Autotrail have tended to specialise in larger vans, so you may find 6 metre vans at the right price in somewhat short supply, though if you can find one of the appropriate period, they should be a solid bet.

 

Autosleepers have generally concentrated on smaller vans and are very popular, so there should be many from which to choose. They also produced end kitchen layouts in some variety over a number of years, so the richest pickings should be among them.

 

Just be aware that any van can be subject to water ingress, so make sure you get a thorough damp test carried out by the dealer and that he will stand by the result should trouble arise. He should provide you with a written record of the test.

 

Pay some attention to tyres, and check their ages. Vans of that age, if still on their originals, will need them all, including any spare, changing pronto. They will cost you a bit over £100 each, so budget for £500 - £600 for a set of five. That may make an apparently cheaper van less attractive when taken into account.

 

Check service records, check log book for previous owners, and make a careful assessment of internal and external condition. By wary of even apparently superficial damage anywhere near body seams where a nudge can open a small chink that becomes a leak. Once 3.5 tonnes are rolling, they have a lot of inertia, and any contact with immovable objects almost invariably causes some damage.

 

Be a bit wary of dealer guarantees, many are insurances with numerous get out clauses.

 

Also, be a bit wary of vans with relatively low mileages. Standing around does them no good: especially tyres and brake discs suffer.

 

The 1.9 litre engines are a bit fragile, and lack the power to comfortably propel 3.5 tonnes. This results in some of them getting hammered, or having plug-in chip boosters added (and subsequently removed). (The latter may not be applicable depending on which generation of the engine is involved). If possible, try to find vans with the 2.2/2.3, or even the 2.8 litre engine, which will have had an easier time.

 

If buying from a dealer, try to find a good, honest, well established and well regarded one as near to where you live as possible.

 

Keep a wad in your back pocket just in case, nothing lasts for ever!

 

That's my ten penn'oth. Others will doubtless disagree! :-)

[lennyhb]

rupert123 - 2014-04-23 11:10 AM

 

lennyhb - 2014-04-22 7:17 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-04-19 3:07 PM

Euro vans can be good but most are poorly equipped with bad resale values and are very hard to sell in the UK if LHD, dealer backup is bad to non existent You can of course save a few pounds, as has been said, if you buy in Europe but do you want the hassle and the savings are nothing like they used to be, you will also lose money on an import especially if it is lhd so cancel out any savings made.

 

How many vans have you brought from mainland Europe Henry as you seem to be making some very definite statements.

 

.

I believe I have mentioned this before Lenny but my partner and I bought just short of 200 cars, vans and even a couple of lorry trailers in from Europe and Japan over a three year period. We stopped because it was no longer viable when both the Yen and the euro went up against the pound. I admit nothing in the last three years but things have got worse not better over this time. We had to make a profit on the transaction which you do not so this changes things a little however it is not difficult for anyone to work out the cost without actually doing it, I would assume you did this before you proceeded, or maybe not. I cannot make yours or Eddies figures work and would very much like to see a detailed breakdown of how you get them to arrive at an 'on the road' figure. To me it would make no difference as I will stick with my, so far, very reliable and damp free British built vans but remain unconvinced about the massive savings you appear to make. I can fully understand going to Europe to buy a van as the choice is far greater than in the very small British based euro market but would I personally want the hassle to save a few pounds, no certainly not. Have you managed to register yours yet?

 

20,000 off the UK price is more than a few pounds, even with a very good discount off UK price I will still save well over 10,000.

 

Proving rather difficult to register at the moment as I am not collecting it until Monday. (lol)

[lennyhb]

LordThornber - 2014-04-23 11:34 AM

 

lennyhb - 2014-04-23

the way they are constructed you have to have the fixing between the panels tightened up after a couple of years to stop them falling apart and you are expected to pay for it yourself.

 

Hi Lenny, I'd be grateful to you for your source on this information.

 

Martyn

 

Hi Martyn,

 

Can't remember exactly where I saw it but the info generally available on the web, best place to look will be Bailey's service scheduled.

 

The costs I believe are:

£150.00 first year

£250.00 second year

£350.00 third year

 

Also there has already been a recall due to joints working loose, does not give much confidence in the build integrity. Also reports on other forums of floors creaking as you walk about after the van is a few months old.

 

Add that to the cost of a habitation check & damp check to keep the warranty makes it an expensive van to run compared to a Hymer which only need a damp check, habitation check not required for warranty.

 

Hope they have sorted the problems by the time yours is built.

 

[stevec]

Brian,

Seems like you've summed it up about right. I'll note your comments. I also have an eye on a 2008 Autocruise which does not appear on Swifts records so may be built before their takeover (so would have stood around for a while!). Peugeot can not give me a build date for the chassis (I gave them the VIN). I am putting preference to the 2.2/2.3 engines over the 1.9. If a private sale I ask for VIN number so I can check past MOTs and also warranty work etc with the chassis manufacturer. I also check the dates on tyres. I also like to have a good crawl underneath to look at the chassis condition. I am fairly handy with a set of spanners and know my way around cars fairly well. Things like resealing windows and vents I have no problem with should they arise so backup from the manufacturer is not too much of a problem. If I can't get a part (like a locker door) then I'll either adapt one or make a new one. It's not rocket science.

 

There are a couple of well established local dealers nearby and they were the first places we looked. One specialises in Hymer and Burstner. Lots of shiney new ones but none that meet our requirements.

 

I have seen motorhomes with really low mileages but most have been in the 20 to 30 thousand area. For something thats ten years old it could have been used once a year to travel Europe then left standing for 11 months, or it could have been used every week to travel locally. Difficult to tell!

 

There's a lot more involved in looking at motorhomes than I thought. Perhaps we should just buy a tent!

 

[lennyhb]

stevec - 2014-04-23 3:14 PM

 

There's a lot more involved in looking at motorhomes than I thought. Perhaps we should just buy a tent!

 

Won't let as much water in as a British built Motorhome. :D :D :D

 

Sorry I couldn't resist that.

[Frank McAuley]

Frank McAuley - 2014-04-22 9:26 AM

 

References to Autotrail and Autosleeper are noted; my present Atrail which is less than 3 yrs old has a damp issue at the frames of both rear locker (garage) doors . The Autosleeper was a endless stream of poor design and build quality.

 

Prior to purchasing across the channel I have taken a look at the "new" ( to me) Bailey mhomes which appear to have involved modern design/construction and they are impressive! Does anybody have any knowledge or experience of them?

 

I must say I am disappointed at a less than 3 yrs old Autotrail with damp issues but thankfully it is being attended to with no indication of the problem elsewhere!!! :-S

 

Motorhome tech showed the cause of the water ingress to me today: the frames around the rear locker (garage) doors had only partly been treated with sealant allowing water to run freely below the frame and unto the wood beneath. A miserable piece of workmanship by Autotrail - was it a Friday or did they run out of sealant?

[Colin Leake]

We're going to have to get rid of our motorhome. It's British and apparently made of drift wood. I'm becoming paranoid. I can't sleep at night suffering from nightmares where it simply falls apart as I drive along the road adding to worries about lorries knocking the wing mirrors off etc. I know Auto-Trail have been making them like that for years and they have proved very reliable with high resale values. May be they think this is better than some of the new technologies where bolts need to be tighten up every two years!

 

True no problems have been found yet in its annual dealer dampens test and I've not been able to detect any damp with my own very professional damp meter but is it lurking in the walls unseen. I'm checking it twice a day now but even so one can never be completely sure.

 

I have had a word with out doctor who is arranging for me to get some professional help but I I don't wnt to start taking drugs!

 

Don't try telling me we need to buy German. My wife and I are one of those annoying breed of campers who like to talk to others when we are on holiday. We have heard our fair share of problems with foreign motorhomes. Deleft seem more prone to problems than most and when they do occur they seem to be more difficult to get fixed.

 

Talking of damp I've got to get a roofing specialist in we've evidence that some water managed to find its way into our house roof over the winter.

[rolandrat]

I have owned 2 brand new Autotrails both built on X250 chassis, one an 09 and the other 11. I had serious water ingression with both. In all I did over 6000 miles going back to the factory for various reasons. I was totally disappointed with the build quality and the excuses I used to get from the factory management was a joke. I had previously owned an Autotrail 03 reg on a Merc chassis and that was perfect in every respect so what has happened to the build quality since I don't know.

[Brian Kirby]

stevec - 2014-04-23 3:14 PM........................There's a lot more involved in looking at motorhomes than I thought. Perhaps we should just buy a tent!

There is, but IMO, you're doing fine. Re tents, softie that I am, I much prefer to be in a motorhome when a gull-on thunderstorm breaks, to being in a tent! And, yes, I have experienced both - more than once. :-D

[Guest pelmetman]

stevec - 2014-04-23 3:14 PM

 

There's a lot more involved in looking at motorhomes than I thought. Perhaps we should just buy a tent!

 

I fear you've been suckered by the buy expensive brigade *-)...........If you have no experience of motohomes then I'm surprised no one has mentioned the sensible route, of at least hiring or better still buying a cheap bargin banger to experience this hobby, prior to splashing out serious spondulux on something your not sure you'll enjoy :-S....................but if you have money to waste.........feel free to follow the herd :D.............

[stevec]

Pelmetman,

We DO know that we'll enjoy it. We like outdoor living (but not to the extent of having a stream running through the lounge...just in case someone makes that comment!) as we have camped and caravanned for a number of years. And someone has already mentioned the hiring route....just a few enties above.

 

Buying expensive? I don't have cash to buy new vans or high spec foreign vans (their layouts are wrong anyway). And my experience (albeit limited) of less expensive more modern vans has not been good. I take advice and consider it, corroborate it if I can and make my own mind up. If I make a mistake along the way I'll own up to it but I will not be accused of making a choice just because someone told me so.

[candapack]

stevec - 2014-04-23 11:03 PM

 

Pelmetman,

We DO know that we'll enjoy it. We like outdoor living (but not to the extent of having a stream running through the lounge...just in case someone makes that comment!) as we have camped and caravanned for a number of years. And someone has already mentioned the hiring route....just a few enties above.

 

Buying expensive? I don't have cash to buy new vans or high spec foreign vans (their layouts are wrong anyway). And my experience (albeit limited) of less expensive more modern vans has not been good. I take advice and consider it, corroborate it if I can and make my own mind up. If I make a mistake along the way I'll own up to it but I will not be accused of making a choice just because someone told me so.

 

Stevec, I think it's time to stop following this thread. The only thing you're likely to be "suckered into" now is the not uncommon slanging match between the usual suspects who seem to find it difficult to keep their fingers off the keyboard.

You seem to know what you want and what you're going to do, so good luck. hope all goes well. :-D

[Guest pelmetman]

stevec - 2014-04-23 11:03 PM

 

Pelmetman,

We DO know that we'll enjoy it. We like outdoor living (but not to the extent of having a stream running through the lounge...just in case someone makes that comment!) as we have camped and caravanned for a number of years. And someone has already mentioned the hiring route....just a few enties above.

 

Buying expensive? I don't have cash to buy new vans or high spec foreign vans (their layouts are wrong anyway). And my experience (albeit limited) of less expensive more modern vans has not been good. I take advice and consider it, corroborate it if I can and make my own mind up. If I make a mistake along the way I'll own up to it but I will not be accused of making a choice just because someone told me so.

 

I must of missed the post who suggested hiring ;-)..................but I did read a post that suggested you have a budget of 25k?................as someone who has a camper that is probably worth 7k.......yet has all the equipment that you'd expect in a motorhome :D.................and does exactly what it say's on the tin............ie a "Travelhome"...........without the drama that seems incumbent with many more modern vehicles *-)...............may I respectfully suggest that you focus on function rather than form :D..................

[rupert123]

stevec - 2014-04-23 3:14 PM

 

Brian,

Seems like you've summed it up about right. I'll note your comments. I also have an eye on a 2008 Autocruise which does not appear on Swifts records so may be built before their takeover (so would have stood around for a while!). Peugeot can not give me a build date for the chassis (I gave them the VIN). I am putting preference to the 2.2/2.3 engines over the 1.9. If a private sale I ask for VIN number so I can check past MOTs and also warranty work etc with the chassis manufacturer. I also check the dates on tyres. I also like to have a good crawl underneath to look at the chassis condition. I am fairly handy with a set of spanners and know my way around cars fairly well. Things like resealing windows and vents I have no problem with should they arise so backup from the manufacturer is not too much of a problem. If I can't get a part (like a locker door) then I'll either adapt one or make a new one. It's not rocket science.

 

There are a couple of well established local dealers nearby and they were the first places we looked. One specialises in Hymer and Burstner. Lots of shiney new ones but none that meet our requirements.

 

I have seen motorhomes with really low mileages but most have been in the 20 to 30 thousand area. For something thats ten years old it could have been used once a year to travel Europe then left standing for 11 months, or it could have been used every week to travel locally. Difficult to tell!

 

There's a lot more involved in looking at motorhomes than I thought. Perhaps we should just buy a tent!

Autocruise bits are still available from several sources. At Peak Motorhomes in Derbyshire their is a bloke called Richard, do not know his surname but he used to be a partner in Autocruise pre Swift so knows where to get parts if all else fails. In fact they are a very good outfit and still sell older Autocruise vans so may be worth a call, you will pay a bit more but get the right backup.

[dick GCT]

Richard Bentley is the contact at Peak Leisure Vehicles in Ashbourne, Derbyshire. Use to run Autocruise with his father pre Swift takeover. Then on old Autocruise premises started up Bentley Motorhomes which seemed to be well built but the company stretched themselves with the models they built and went out of business. Now RB has teamed up with Steve Parsons at Peak Leisure and doing well.

 

Certainly a good contact for sourcing parts for pre- 2008 Autocruise motorhomes!

 

Hope the above helps.

[Colin Leake]

Brian Kirby - 2014-04-23 9:57 PM

 

stevec - 2014-04-23 3:14 PM........................There's a lot more involved in looking at motorhomes than I thought. Perhaps we should just buy a tent!

There is, but IMO, you're doing fine. Re tents, softie that I am, I much prefer to be in a motorhome when a gull-on thunderstorm breaks, to being in a tent! And, yes, I have experienced both - more than once. :-D

 

We had a frame tent once when the boys used to race model cars all over the place. Used one at a race track that used to exist at Southampton. It was so cold we had to get up in the night and turn the beds round to prevent the wind getting into the sleeping bags. In the morning the little,gas stove struggled to even boil the kettle.

 

One was enough we moved on to caravans then motorhomes p.d.q.

[victor50]

rupert123 - 2014-04-19 3:07 PM

 

Just ignore the anti anything British brigade, they tend to live in the dim and distant past. Sure British vans get more complaints in the UK but as over 80% of vans sold in the UK are British built this is to be expected. We had a 2008 Swift 530LP bought from new, it had a payload of 530kg, Swift uprated this van early 2008. SV tech uprated it to 3500kg giving a payload of 730kg so could carry a 125cc scooter on a rack no problem. This van gave excellent service for just over four years with no issues at all except we had the fridge burners soot up after three years. When we sold we got an excellent price on Ebay for the van within a few days. Euro vans can be good but most are poorly equipped with bad resale values and are very hard to sell in the UK if LHD, dealer backup is bad to non existent You can of course save a few pounds, as has been said, if you buy in Europe but do you want the hassle and the savings are nothing like they used to be, you will also lose money on an import especially if it is lhd so cancel out any savings made.

 

Hi couldnot agree more we have had continental van a Chausson that had water ingress through roof at 2 years old

although put right by dealer it put me off continental vans. We have since had a Auto cruise van with no problems and now a Auto Trail. Again no problems also both British vans have the habitation door on the correct side.

Personal thing don't like it?