Steve928 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Not looking good. This the result of about 1 minute driving through a moderate hail shower, really nothing extraordinary just normal March weather. I remember the days when a radiator grille used to be just that and offer some protection, rather than being a styling attachment. This photo is taken through the 'grille' so gives an idea of how unprotected the condenser is.. X2/90 Boxer by the way, although the Ducato is much the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 You don't say what make your van is, as a lot of converters fit their own grill, Hymer fit a steel mesh grill on all their vans so you would not get that sort of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Good idea but I can't see it on this Exsis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I didn't realise Hymer had dropped their own grill on the X290, my last van a Hymer Tramp on an x250 had their own grill with a mesh behind it, my A Class Exsis also has a mesh behind the grill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Hello Folks, The later Peugeots and Citroens have more open grilles than the Ducato as standard. These grilles are not a styling exercise. Since the arrival of Euro 4 it has been a major concern for manufacturers to capture as much cooling air as possible. This is why almost all vans had significantly restyled noses from around 2006. Some were quite striking! (VW Crafter and the latest Transits) and not a little ugly but it is a matter of necessity. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Then, with respect Nick, they really do need to make their condensers out of sterner stuff as, if it's all about airflow, one minute of not notably heavy hail has reduced the airflow through mine (and therefore the rad behind it) considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 No offence taken Steve, because i just buy them and fix them. The design is nothing to do with me. However unsightly the damage is, and it will have a small effect on the cooling capacity of the unit, the damage that you see is just to the 'cooling fins' and not to the cores of the radiator. You don't need to worry too much about it. I do recall looking at the Peugeot grills at the NEC last year and thinking to myself that i was glad I was not buying any of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-03-26 12:24 PM You don't say what make your van is, as a lot of converters fit their own grill, Hymer fit a steel mesh grill on all their vans so you would not get that sort of damage. Oh no they don't, I've got a Gold Edition Hymer Tramp and had to fit my own grille, just the same with my previous B584. I think you mean on " some of their vans". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanista Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Hi Steve' I would be surprised if any difference in aircon performance could be detected, unless of course the matrix was perforated. It may be worth attempting to bend the fins straight again with a softish metal blade such as the non business end of a nail file. In August 2012 we were caught in a violent hail storm in central France, the stones were between the size of a golf ball and a tennis ball and of course we had to stop and the noise was deafening. When it was over there was damage to that part part of the roof made from aluminium sheet; dents but no perforation, and even dents on the steel bonnet. The GRP parts of the roof and the clear plastic of the roof vents were undamaged. Upon return the insurance Co. was contacted and the assessor intimated that trying a repair/replace the aluminium panel may be more trouble than it was worth. His reasoning was that the van was built from the inside out and all sorts of difficulties would ensue. As there were no issues at all with water ingress I was happy to go along with this. I removed the bonnet lid from the van and took it to a local panel beater who made it good as new. At his premises there was a Porsche with aluminium body panels that had had the same misfortune in France at about the same time. This would have been a v. expensive repair as Alu....panels cannot be beaten, so to speak! Best of luck anyway! Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 starvin marvin - 2015-03-26 4:48 PM lennyhb - 2015-03-26 12:24 PM You don't say what make your van is, as a lot of converters fit their own grill, Hymer fit a steel mesh grill on all their vans so you would not get that sort of damage. Oh no they don't, I've got a Gold Edition Hymer Tramp and had to fit my own grille, just the same with my previous B584. I think you mean on " some of their vans". My last van was a Gold Edition Tramp, I had it from new. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Thanks all. Yes, I appreciate that once you get serious big European-style hailstones that damage is inevitable, it's just that this was just a normal UK hail shower that we thought nothing of so just kept driving like everyone else on the motorway. I really didn't expect anything to have been affected by such a normal event. I agree that it's no big deal, just annoying when your shiny new van gets its first battle scars. It'll get worse ones.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-03-26 6:25 PM starvin marvin - 2015-03-26 4:48 PM lennyhb - 2015-03-26 12:24 PM You don't say what make your van is, as a lot of converters fit their own grill, Hymer fit a steel mesh grill on all their vans so you would not get that sort of damage. Oh no they don't, I've got a Gold Edition Hymer Tramp and had to fit my own grille, just the same with my previous B584. I think you mean on " some of their vans". My last van was a Gold Edition Tramp, I had it from new. :'( Well you must be a jammy so & so, I have checked 5 Hymers on site here, some have grilles and some don't, one has a partial grille and 3 appear to be plastic grilles. The one with the partial grille is "open" at the bottom, just above the number plate, these are various nationalities. Make of that what you will. Perhaps my vans were both Friday afternoon jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I’m wary of the idea that there is any significant difference between the ‘openness’ of the front grilles of X290 Fiat Ducatos, X290 Peugeot Boxers or X290 Citroen Relays (see attached X290 Ducato/Boxer frontal photos). Fitting a widish mesh guard behind the grille to provide some protection against hail damage would potentially reduce the cooling, but would probably be OK. It would introduce the possibility of snow blocking the mesh, but I doubt that would much worry UK motorcaravanners. However, as Nick says, the type of hail damage caused to Steve’s condenser should not affect its performance and it’s understandable that Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen won’t bother to provide protection if not doing so will save a euro or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 In retrospect it does not seem like there is much difference between the two. Perhaps the badge in the middle of the Fiat grille gives at least the perception of more protection. Be aware though that any grilles that you put in place may collect flies, moths, birds, animals or anything else that you may encounter. This will have a much more detrimental effect on the cooling of your vehicle or the efficiency of your aircon than a few bent fins will. Stop worrying about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 I fear that I may have given the impression that the picture in the first post showed the entire extent of the damage. I wouldn't have batted an eyelid were that the case but it was just an example pictured through one grille apeture. I would estimate that about a quarter of the surface area of the condenser has been flattened, sadly. Keep away from hail in your X2/90 folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Today I was restoring the heater from a 50s car. Its construction and scars were identical to the damaged unit described by Steve. Using a miniature screwdriver I carefully reshaped the fins one at time. its slow and painstaking but it is possible to regain most of the units ability to pass air. The finning is very thin but the tubes on the 60 year old were fairly strong. The tubes now are thinner but still a lot stronger than the fins. Remember those immortal words. "Just be gentle" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 We are A & N Caravan/Atlantic Motorhome and would suggest that the damage will make a big difference to the Airflow through the Engine Radiator behind it. Not just because the flat areas will obstruct 25%, but because the turbulence caused by the blocked Air on the surrounding openings will slow down the airflow through these. When the weather warms up you may well suffer overheating? The effect on the Chiller will be less, possibly not detectable. We would advocate spending some time opening the vents back up, but not with a metal object. The Core is normally very soft Alloy and easily holed with a screwdriver. But they also often have a coating that a metal object will scratch leading to corrosion in just a short time. The fins really are malleable, easily put back in shape by a disposable cut down plastic knife from a Picnic set. It does take a long time, but could save you a big engine repair bill. This type of damage is also easily caused by just touching the fins, for example when replacing/repairing the front end. Always put cardboard over a Radiator/chiller when working in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 You used to be able to buy fin combs from refrigeration wholesalers like FSW, Climate Center etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I must agree with our Atlantic poster that a plastic knife would be better than a screwdriver. Most current automotive heat exchangers are made of aluminium alloy but I have no idea what protective coating is used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Thanks for the plastic knife tip. I need to work out how to remove the grille and front panel centre section then Operation Straighten Fins (a long campaign) can commence. Fin combs only work with condensers/radiators that have parallel fins by the way. They can't be used with the zig-zag finning of automotive ones. Onwards and upwards.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Reading this thread has me wondering how much crud ends up in the fins anyway restricting airflow, given the state of my windscreen on occasions it resembles an insect armageddon,mmmmmm, better take a look asap, another thing to stress about. ;-) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Steve, As this is obviously a brand new MH have you contacted the supplying dealer to ask about a warranty claim? You should not expect to see this level of damage in 'normal use'. Failing this contact Peugeot and ask what they have to say. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Keithl - 2015-03-29 7:35 PM Steve, As this is obviously a brand new MH have you contacted the supplying dealer to ask about a warranty claim? You should not expect to see this level of damage in 'normal use'. Failing this contact Peugeot and ask what they have to say. Keith. I'm not sure how driving into a hail storm would go down with any warranty claim, act of God and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 An update to an old thread. I did in fact email Peugeot Customer Services. I was called back and told that a warranty claim would be considered and failing that they would look favourably upon replacing the condenser as a goodwill gesture. The first step, quite reasonably, was to take the van to a dealer for assessment. I tried my local (car) dealer who thought that the damage was insignificant. Not convinced, I took the van to my nearest motohome-friendly Peugeot dealer who service all the local vans and have their own hire fleet. They concurred with the first assessment. Just back from climbing long cols fully laden in 36 degrees of heat and the aircon was fine and the engine temperature gauge didn't move so I guess they were all correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Just retrieved a blue finch from my X250 today, just it's tail and one foot was sticking out of the grill ( the pointy end could have done a bit of damage if we were going a little faster ). I haven't told my wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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