spospe Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Just curious, but does Nick (euroserve) have anything to add to this discussion? Citroen use the same engine as Peugeot (the Ford 2.2. litre Puma) but FIAT use their own 2.3 litre unit. So if the battery change offer has arisen due to engine starting problems in cold weather, we could reasonably expect Citroen to follow suit, but just maybe, FIAT with their different engine might be unaffected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 spospe - 2015-05-02 10:49 AM Just curious, but does Nick (euroserve) have anything to add to this discussion? ............. I heard he was still recovering from your birthday bash! Oh, and belated birthday greetings for 1 May. Must be good to be 21 at last! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjpksp Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Returned new Bailey Autograph back to dealer yesterday to sort out snagging problems. Pulled up on forecourt, went to ask member of staff where to park it, tried to start it, nothing! Dealer hooked up starter, mh started. Attempted to start it again after removing starter, nothing. So glad it happened at dealers! They are going to take it to Peugeot but I might send them a link to this topic just in case it's relevant. Many thanks to OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 These links relate to relevant discussions on the MHFun and Auto-Sleepers Owners forums http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/peugeot-boxer-battery-recall.107270/ http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t14104-boxer-battery-recall I notice that - in the ASOF thread - someone describes the ‘wrong’ battery as being "12v, 680A; 95Ah (EN2/SAE)”. As I’ve said (several times) a 95Ah starter-battery could be expected to have a CCA well above 680A. Via GOOGLE I can find a few batteries said to have a 95Ah/CCA 680A specification, but I’m doubtful that these would fit into a Boxer’s battery compartment. If the same make/model of 95Ah/CCA 680A battery was factory-fitted (which seems a reasonable assumption as a 95Ah/CCA 680A combination is rare), as a fair number of 680A batteries have now been replaced, I would have thought that somebody who has had this done should be in a position to provide details of the manufacturer of the 680A battery and its range-name (eg FIAMM “Titanium”, Bosch S5). Can anyone provide that information? While fully accepting that a 95Ah/CCA 680 battery sounds ‘under powered’, I continue to find it strange that the Peugeot-advised replacement should be a 110Ah/CCA 950A on a one-size-fits-all basis. The latter battery would be appropriate for a Boxer with a 3.0litre motor or Start/Stop system, but seems overkill for one with the 2.2litre powerplant and no Start/Stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-05-04 8:33 AM I notice that - in the ASOF thread - someone describes the ‘wrong’ battery as being "12v, 680A; 95Ah (EN2/SAE)”. As I’ve said (several times) a 95Ah starter-battery could be expected to have a CCA well above 680A. Via GOOGLE I can find a few batteries said to have a 95Ah/CCA 680A specification, but I’m doubtful that these would fit into a Boxer’s battery compartment. I can confirm that my original battery had on it a label which stated that it was 12v, 680A CCA and with a capacity of 95A/h. Before our present Peugeot Boxer Warwick Duo, we had a Ford Transit Duetto with the 2.4 litre engine and this was fitted with a 12v 60Ah battery (I cannot remember the CCA figure). It does indeed seem likely that a starter battery with 95Ah capacity could be expected to have a CCA in excess of 680A, but I have quoted what was actually on the label on the battery as originally supplied (and it fitted into the battery compartment without any problem). The new 950A battery looks by eye to be the same physical size as the original 680A version (I have not measured either the original, or the replacement). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 spospe - 2015-05-04 5:07 PM Derek Uzzell - 2015-05-04 8:33 AM I notice that - in the ASOF thread - someone describes the ‘wrong’ battery as being "12v, 680A; 95Ah (EN2/SAE)”. As I’ve said (several times) a 95Ah starter-battery could be expected to have a CCA well above 680A. Via GOOGLE I can find a few batteries said to have a 95Ah/CCA 680A specification, but I’m doubtful that these would fit into a Boxer’s battery compartment. I can confirm that my original battery had on it a label which stated that it was 12v, 680A CCA and with a capacity of 95A/h. Before our present Peugeot Boxer Warwick Duo, we had a Ford Transit Duetto with the 2.4 litre engine and this was fitted with a 12v 60Ah battery (I cannot remember the CCA figure). It does indeed seem likely that a starter battery with 95Ah capacity could be expected to have a CCA in excess of 680A, but I have quoted what was actually on the label on the battery as originally supplied (and it fitted into the battery compartment without any problem). The new 950A battery looks by eye to be the same physical size as the original 680A version (I have not measured either the original, or the replacement). I’m not suggesting that ‘95Ah 680A’ batteries do not exist, nor that they have not been fitted to Peugeot Boxers. I refer you to the paragraph in my posting that immediately follows the two you have quoted "If the same make/model of 95Ah/CCA 680A battery was factory-fitted (which seems a reasonable assumption as a 95Ah/CCA 680A combination is rare), as a fair number of 680A batteries have now been replaced, I would have thought that somebody who has had this done should be in a position to provide details of the manufacturer of the 680A battery and its range-name (eg FIAMM “Titanium”, Bosch S5). Can anyone provide that information?” If I were a Peugot Boxer owner and had become aware that my vehicle had this 680A ‘wrong’ battery and had had the battery replaced, I can assure you that I would now know the manufacturer of that battery and its ‘name’ (assuming that those data are on the battery of course - and it’s hard to believe they will not be). Even though manufacturer/name details are probably not readable with the 680A battery in its compartment in the vehicle, I’d make certain I found out what they were when the original battery was removed. I’d also want to know the manufacturer/name of the 110Ah/950A replacement battery. As I said in my posting of 2 May 2015 9:54 AM, I’d expect the 95Ah and 110Ah batteries fitted to X250/X290 to have similar width/height dimensions, with the 110Ah battery being about 40mm longer than the 95Ah one and completely filling the vehicle’s battery compartment. A lateral thought... There’s actually nothing ‘wrong' with the 95Ah battery itself - it’s just the CCA 680A figure on the label that’s been misprinted. Here’s an example of a 95Ah 860A battery with suitable dimensions for an X250/X290 Boxer https://www.tayna.co.uk/019-Numax-Car-Battery-P1725.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 You do indeed get 95AH 680A (EN) Magneti Marelli branded batteries. I think they have a tie up with FAAM batteries who make them but do not appear to be listed under the FAAM badge. Anyway, Magneti Marelli are big suppliers to SEVEL and it is in the ETS series of batteries. It is, from memory , 353 mm long. There is also a 110Ah which is 950Ah in the same series but is 394mm long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-05-05 7:58 AM I would have thought that somebody who has had this done should be in a position to provide details of the manufacturer of the 680A battery and its range-name (eg FIAMM “Titanium”, Bosch S5). Can anyone provide that information?” Even though manufacturer/name details are probably not readable with the 680A battery in its compartment in the vehicle, I’d make certain I found out what they were when the original battery was removed. I’d also want to know the manufacturer/name of the 110Ah/950A replacement battery. Sadly, I must say that I do not know the answer as to the manufacturer of the original 680A battery, or its 950A replacement and this is because, "details ...... not readable ........ in the vehicle". In all truth I am not particularly concerned about the details because I did not personally have a problem with the battery. The change of battery was as a result of the letter originally displayed by Steve928 in his opening post and not as a result of any problems experienced by myself. With hindsight, it would have been of interest to members of this Forum if I had made a note of battery specifics, but I did not note down all the details due to access problems. Perhaps one of the other affected readers of this thread could takes notes and report back when they have their battery changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 The 95Ah battery may have numbers on it such as ETS95D1N 068095068010 or 59219. The 110Ah may have numbers ETS110D1N or 068110095010 (do not know what the short code is likely to be except will start 59) These are specified as being used in the PSA Boxer 2.2 HDi and 3.0 HDi respectively. One can assume if requesting a higher capacity battery the offer will be the 110Ah one as above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 It would appear from the Magneti Marelli (MM) catalogue that an ETS92ND or ETS95D1N battery was the norm for diesel-fuelled Peugeot Boxers up to 2006. At that point (when the X250 range was introduced) small-engined ‘bus’ Boxers retained the 95Ah battery but all other Boxers should have had 110Ah ETS110D1N battery irrespective of engine-size/power-output. My understanding is that Magneti Marelli batteries were also factory-fitted to Fiat Ducatos and the MM catalogue suggests that an ETS92ND or ETS95D1N battery was the norm for Ducatos up to 2006. At that point (it would appear that) ALL small-engined X250 Ducatos retained the ETS95D1N 95Ah battery and only 3.0litre X250s would have had the 110Ah ETS110D1N battery as standard. It might be worth every owner of a 2006-onwards Boxer/Ducato/Relay checking what’s in their motohome’s battery compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan MMM Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Another update to this story. I've spoken to Peugeot again and the press office has changed direction somewhat. The only motorhome manufacturer affected is Bailey. It was an order of Peugeot Boxers by Bailey that were specified for a 950A battery which were delivered with 680A batteries by mistake. Anyone with a Bailey motorhome with a 680A battery can have it changed for the higher capacity one free of charge - just get in touch with your dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 https://www.tayna.co.uk/019-Numax-Car-Battery-P1725.html If you the above link for type of battery you will it lists the larger one 019 for motorhomes depending on which Battery manufacturer you select the 019 varies in AH and CC performance the cheapest is 100Ah and 950 cold cranking. Which is a lot more than 680 CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Duncan MMM - 2015-05-05 3:36 PM Another update to this story. I've spoken to Peugeot again and the press office has changed direction somewhat. The only motorhome manufacturer affected is Bailey. It was an order of Peugeot Boxers by Bailey that were specified for a 950A battery which were delivered with 680A batteries by mistake. Anyone with a Bailey motorhome with a 680A battery can have it changed for the higher capacity one free of charge - just get in touch with your dealer. Interesting change. The original Peugeot letter, as displayed by Steve928 states, "All Peugeot Boxers should come with a 950Ah (sic) battery fitted as standard". Perhaps this has been a case of the left hand not being 100% sure what the right was up to? I can say with confidence that when I took my Boxer in to Robins & Day, that they spoke to Peugeot Customer Services and gave them all the specifics. Peugeot then authorised the battery change without any quibble. I have not personally spoken to, or written to Peugeot at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 spospe - 2015-05-05 4:27 PM Interesting change. The original Peugeot letter, as displayed by Steve928 states, "All Peugeot Boxers should come with a 950Ah (sic) battery fitted as standard". Yes,but it now has to be taken in context. It transpires that it was a letter from Peugeot to Bailey so could now reasonably be considered to relate only to Bailey's Boxer cab orders. As to the wrong battery being fitted only to a batch or particular order of cabs this is clearly not the case as the wrong battery has been found in cabs right back to 2012. It appears that Peugeot may have supplied the wrong battery on many cabs destined via Al-Ko for Bailey hence the carte-blanche replacement policy. I've no idea what battery the other converters who use Peugeot specify so the smaller battery may well be correct for their motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 In the past Nick Fisher (euroserv) has said that Magneti Marelli (MM) batteries have been factory-fitted as original equipment to Fiat Ducatos, Consequently (as Peugeot Boxers and Citroen Relays are built in the same Italian factory as Ducatos) it’s reasonable to assume that Boxers/Relays have also been factory-fitted with MM batteries. As Brambles has advised, MM’s technical data show that the MM “ETS” starter-battery range includes 95Ah 680A (EN) and 110Ah 950A (EN) batteries and that these two batteries would fit into the battery-compartment of an X250 Boxer/Ducato/Relay. I suggested earlier that it would be logical to anticipate that the battery fitted (95Ah or 110Ah) would be matched to the predictable electrical demand. So a 3.0litre motor would qualify for the 110Ah battery, while 2.2litre and 2.3litre motors could ‘make do’ with the 95Ah battery. According to MM’s data this is what happened with X250 Fiats, with only 3.0litre Ducatos getting the 110Ah battery. However, where Boxers and Relays were concerned, it would seem that only ‘vans’ with the 2.2litre motor got the 95Ah battery as original equipment and all other Boxers/Relays got the 110Ah battery. I can’t say I’m comfortable with that analysis, but it tallies with what’s been said above. Spospe’s Auto-Sleepers “Warwick” and maggyd’s Autocruise “Alto” are X250 Boxer-based panel-van conversions (PVCs) with the 95Ah 680A battery. As both vehicles are ‘vans’ with the 2.2litre motor, this would not be the ‘wrong’ battery according to the Magneti Marelli data. Bailey motorhomes are all Boxer-based with the 2.2litre motor, but as they are not PVC ‘vans’ they should be expected to have the 110Ah battery. If they do have the 95Ah battery, this would be ‘wrong’ according to Magneti Marelli. Steve928’s 2008 Elddis, because it was not a ‘van’, should have had (and did have) the 110Ah battery. Muddying the waters further is that major motorhome converters (Autocruise, Auto-Sleepers, Bailey, Elddis) building on the Boxer may well have the option to specify the larger capacity battery for a ‘van’ if they so choose. So Auto-Sleepers might have specified a 110Ah battery for their Boxer-based PVCs, but some ‘van’ chassis destined for A-S might have been factory-fitted in Italy with the 95Ah battery in error. This could explain why spospe had no difficulty obtaining a 110Ah replacement (or he just got lucky!) It would be useful to have the make/model of 95Ah 680A battery confirmed, and also the make/model of the 110Ah 950A replacement battery. Magneti Marelli batteries are now marketed in the UK (apparently they weren’t at one time) and it would make sense for the replacement to be an MM battery. But it would be nice to know if that’s indeed the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 My battery was changed today. I was beginning to wish that I hadn't started this thread until my own had been changed but thankfully it was quite straightforward and the dealer had no trouble getting authorisation. Phew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Steve928 Could you please confirm exactly what motorhome you have? By inference you seem to have a Bailey, but this does not seem to be stated explicitly in your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Yes, it's a 2015 Bailey so should have qualified for the larger battery without argument. I hope that you're still enjoying your birthday present battery! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisden Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Checked with Citroen today and no recall for a battery upgrade for my Relay Camper. My 2013 Relay has the smaller battery fitted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Just to summarise what SEEMS to be the situation... Citroen Relay, Fiat Ducato and Peugeot Boxer vehicles are built in the same Italian factory and on the same assembly lines. Until 2006 - when the X250 range of Relays, Ducatos and Boxers was introduced - a 95Ah starter-battery was (apparently) the norm. X250 Citroen and Peugeot VANS continued to have a 95Ah battery, while all X250 Citroen and Peugeot vehicles that were NOT VANS (including bare chassis destined to become ‘coachbuilt’ motorhomes) gained a 110Ah battery. X250 Fiat Ducatos continued to have a 95Ah battery unless a 3.0litre motor was fitted. X250 Ducato vehicles/chassis with a 3.0litre motor had a 110Ah battery. It needs emphasising that there is nothing intrinsically ‘wrong’ with a 95Ah CCA 680A starter-battery. It will be evident from a cursory on-line search that the CCA 680A figure is lower than what one might anticipate for a 95Ah battery with dimensions suitable for an X250’s battery-compartment, but it’s still a hefty battery and should be well capable of reliably starting a diesel-engined vehicle with a 2.2litre or 2.3litre motor. Why Citroen/Peugeot seemingly chose a different battery-specification approach to Fiat for the X250 range is anybody’s guess. I don’t know what the starter-battery position is with the latest X290 Boxers/Ducatos/Relays. Steve’s 2015 Peugeot Boxer-based 2.2litre coachbuilt Bailey motorhome had the 95Ah 680A battery, but my 2015 Fiat Ducato-based 2.3litre coachbuilt Rapido has a 95Ah CCA 800A battery. As I suggested earlier, if you have a motorhome based on an X250 or X290, it might be a good idea to check what battery it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-05-08 7:23 AM X250 Citroen and Peugeot VANS continued to have a 95Ah battery, while all X250 Citroen and Peugeot vehicles that were NOT VANS (including bare chassis destined to become ‘coachbuilt’ motorhomes) gained a 110Ah battery. My Auto Sleeper Warwick Duo has been built on a, 'NOT VAN' chassis, (originally intended to be a people carrier type of vehicle with glass fitted all along the sides and rear doors). This would explain why my vehicle had its battery changed without any query, even though it is not a Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 spospe - 2015-05-08 2:51 PM Derek Uzzell - 2015-05-08 7:23 AM X250 Citroen and Peugeot VANS continued to have a 95Ah battery, while all X250 Citroen and Peugeot vehicles that were NOT VANS (including bare chassis destined to become ‘coachbuilt’ motorhomes) gained a 110Ah battery. My Auto Sleeper Warwick Duo has been built on a, 'NOT VAN' chassis, (originally intended to be a people carrier type of vehicle with glass fitted all along the sides and rear doors). This would explain why my vehicle had its battery changed without any query, even though it is not a Bailey. Possibly, but my hypothesis was based on Magneti Marelli information and (as I said earlier) I wouldn’t bet that it’s right. It’s more of an educated guess that happens to fit reasonably well with what’s been said. If you refer back to my posting of 5 May 2015 2:27 PM, you’ll see that I suggested that “...small-engined ‘bus’ Boxers retained the 95Ah battery but all other Boxers should have had 110Ah ETS110D1N battery irrespective of engine-size/power-output”. I take “bus” to mean Boxer 'people-carriers’ as well as Boxer delivery vans, so (if my guess is correct) your Warwick should not really qualify for a 110Ah battery. If you want to confirm why Robins & Day were prepared to change your battery without quibbling, ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-05-08 6:27 PM If you want to confirm why Robins & Day were prepared to change your battery without quibbling, ask them. I did ask, as previously stated and the answer was that they in turn had spoken to Peugeot Customer Services and they had OK'd the change. I am going to stop at this point, as we are getting ready to leave for France in the morning. Good luck to all affected owners, I hope that you get sorted out and that this increasingly complicated tale gets resolved to your satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The saga continues on the Auto-Sleepers Owners Forum http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t14104p25-boxer-battery-recall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindhyg Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hi all. The following just goes to show that sometimes these forums do work and they are not all created by disgruntled moaners - read on. I have just purchased but not yet taken delivery a new 2015 Bailey Motorhome with the Peugeot Boxer cab and engine. I came across this thread and was worried that my new Motorhome might have the wrong battery fitted. Yesterday I went to the dealer to sign off the documents of ownership. Whilst I was there I asked the sales person to check the battery that had been installed. Low and behold it was fitted with a 680A battery. I informed the salesman that I knew about a problem whereby the incorrect battery is being fitted. He was amazed and said he knew nothing about it or of any bulletin being issued to that effect. The salesman said he would contact his local Peugeot Service Centre to find out more. I got a call from him today infirming me that the Peugeot Service Centre knew about the problem and that they would fit the correct battery to the vehicle before I took delivery of it - a result indeed. Peugeot will only change the battery for the correct one if you complain to them that the battery is causing slow cranking starting problems. Many thanks to this forum and the person that started it because I would not have known about it. I have also now been told that this problem affects any Motorhome fitted with the Boxer Cab ( and that is many) as it's base build. They all have a 680a battery fitted. It makes you wonder how many people have just junked their slow cranking battery thinking it was at the end of it's life and then gone out and purchased a replacement of the same type!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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