Derek Uzzell Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Welcome to the Out&boutLive forums There is a short article about this in the “NEWS” section on Page 32 of MMM magazine’s Summer 2015 issue. The article is headed “MAINTENANCE BATTERY SUPPLY ERROR” and claims that Bailey specified 950A starter batteries for the Peugeot Boxer cabs that would be converted into motorhomes, but the cabs were delivered with 680A batteries. Apparently “...The issue is specific to Bailey motorhomes only.” I’m wary of the idea that “...any motorhome fitted with a Boxer cab...” will be affected, though I might believe that any Boxer-based motorhome with the 2.2litre motor could be. As I suggested earlier, the 680A battery is still pretty hunky and (although the 950A version would be preferable) should reliably start the 2.2litre powerplant even in cold conditions. Where it could be expected to struggle is when the 3.0litre motor is fitted to the Boxer and that’s when a more powerful 110Ah battery is standard. However, Bailey just uses the 2.2litre motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 It also may be worth looking at this MHFacts forum discussion http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/231-bailey-motorhomes/148530-cab-battery-replacement-due-wrong-spec-fitted.html It seems to me that Bailey motorhome owners as a group need to get a much tighter grip on this. There is a club for the brand that surely should be seeking to obtain a definitive statement from Bailey about the background and what Bailey motorhome owners who discover their vehicle has a CCA 680A battery are entitled to expect. Although it may have been useful for the issue to be highlighted on internet forums, magazines and social media, all that then seems to have happened generally is for people to gossip about it! As well as Bailey motorhomes having ‘wrong’ batteries, there is also the Tyre Pressure Monitoring System conflict apparently due to Bailey specifying much lower inflation pressures than advised by the base-vehicle, tyre and chassis manufacturers. Another thing where Bailey motorhome owners and the Club ought to be demanding an immediate and satisfactory response from Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindhyg Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 UPDATE TO MY POST OF 14 JULY 7.48PM. I had a call from my dealer Bardsea Leisure on the 15th July the day after my post, telling me that Guy Perry, Barrow In Furness had called him and will not be changing the battery for the correct one. This is after I had been told it would be changed and went ahead with the purchase and started the vehicle registration process with the DVLA. The dealer said he reckons that Peugeot have probably changed so many they had to stop it. I am now stuffed and cannot get out of the vehicle purchase! Peugeot UK have informed all their dealerships, that under no circumstances are they to change any 680ah for 950ah under any warranty or other claim that it is the wrong battery. I spent 30 minutes on the phone with Peugeot UK putting forward every single argument as to why they should put the correct battery in the Motorhome for me. Firstly the customer service person said when I told her about the MMM article that it was incorrect and factual in the statement and that they had misled people by printing the article. No amount of arguing made any difference, she insisted the 680 was correct for the vehicle and it would not be changed. I then said about Bailey stipulating a 950ah battery instead of a 680ah for all the Bailey Motorhomes on a Boxer chassis once again I get ' this is not the case and the 680 is the correct battery Bailey never stipulated that '.I'm getting nowhere now. Now I am getting hump so I said what about the bulletin issued by Peugeot about the fitting of the wrong battery and to change them if a customer wanted. Again I am told that this is not the case the battery is the correct one. I am even told that they have never changed any batteries, which is utter rubbish as we know. The statement from Guy Perry confirms the statement she made statement to be untrue. Well I am getting nowhere at all. I then informed her that I had only purchased the vehicle because Guy Perry had agreed to change the battery and that this was a brand new vehicle after all. I am told by her that Guy Perry should not have told my dealer they would change it and the fact that they did made no difference Peugeot would not change it because it was the correct battery. More wrangling ensued I told her that I had purchased a new Peugeot 3008 in November ( which is true ) and that I was appalled at the way this was being handled and the way I was just being fobbed off ' I'm sorry you feel that way ' she says but we will not change the battery. You cannot get the truth from any of these people. Customer relations do not exist, it's our word against theirs in the end as to what has been done or not done. Bailey are not interested in the slightest and just refer you back to Peugeot. Bailey do not care if you have bought a new Bailey Motorhome from them as there is always another person to buy one. I really wish I had bought something else now but I am now caught in a catch 22 situation having sent everything off to the DVLA to register it in my name and get a reg number. I am going to contact BBC Watchdog and the SMMT. If enough of us contact them they may be able to drag the truth to the fore and shame them both. Bailey and Peugeot make a good team and before I even get to use the product I have lost faith in them both. And all over a ninety quid battery and a snotty attitude over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 mindhyg Before you involve yourself with Watchdog and the SMMT I strongly suggest you read this forum discussion from its beginning as your understanding is flawed technically and may well lead to confusion. The situation (as I understand it) is that some X250 (2006-2014) and X290 (the current model) Peugeot Boxers with 2.2litre motors have been found to have starter-batteries with a CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) of 680A. This is NOT the same thing as a 95Ah battery and (based on Brambles posting of 5 May 2015 10:06 AM) there’s seems a fair possibility that the CCA 680A batteries actually have a 95Ah capacity. What initially needs to be established is the specification (dimensions, Ah and CCA) of original equipment starter-batteries factory-fitted to Peugeot Boxers that have the 2.2litre motor. As I suggested in my posting of 6 May 2015 9:03 AM, it seemed possible that X250/X290 Boxers should be factory-fitted with 110Ah batteries except for 2.2litre ‘van’ models - but that was very much crystal-ball gazing. Bailey builds motorhomes based on a chassis-less Peugeot Boxer cab and the MMM magazine article claims that Bailey deliberately specified that these cabs be delivered to them with CCA 950A starter-batteries, but the cabs erroneously came with CCA 680A batteries. If that’s correct, then Peugeot must be in the wrong and Bailey should be demanding that the CCA 680A batteries be replaced with CCA 950A ones. The corollary to this would be the reasonable assumption that the CCA 680A battery is normally factory-fitted to 2.2litre Boxers and that a CCA 950A battery needs to be specified by the buyer (in this case Bailey). If the CCA 680A battery is actually standard for 2.2litre Boxers and a motorhome converter fails to specify a CCA 950A alternative (or specifies a CCA 950A alternative on some orders but not others) there’s no reason to expect Peugout to replace the CCA 680A batteries free of charge. If Bailey thinks that a CCA 950A battery is needed for their motorhomes, but failed to specify that battery specification when ordering cabs from Peugeot, it would hardly be Peugeot’s fault if the cabs were delivered to Bailey with CCA 680A batteries. And, if Bailey then believed that the CCA 680A battery was likely to lead to buyers of their motorhomes having starting problems, it would be up to Bailey (not Peugeot) to decide what to do about this. It’s clear from other forum comments that the CCA 680A battery was fitted to other makes of 2.2litre Boxer-based motorhomes (eg. Auto-Sleepers) and some owners have had those batteries replaced. But the primary source of confusion is Bailey who undoubtedly know what has happened and quite likely are the only people able to say what a Bailey motorhome buyer should expect to happen if his/her Bailey motorhome is found to have a CCA 680A starter-battery. Although you say that “...Bailey are not interested in the slightest and just refer you back to Peugeot.” it is Bailey that you ought to be badgering not Peugeot. Peugeot has sold the cab to Bailey and (in my opinion) may be right in telling you that the CCA 680A battery fitted to your new vehicle is ‘correct’. You are buying your motorhome from Bailey via a Bailey dealership and - if Bailey believe the battery in your vehicle is not ‘correct’ for it, it’s Bailey (via your dealer) who should be seeking to resolve this. You should not be expected to try to deal with what is clearly a complicated issue yourself and waste your time talking to Peugeot(UK). If you are going to target someone to blame, blame Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Some folk must have some serious amounts of time to burn if this is causing so much dialogue. Ok, I have a the advantage of my Nephew being a Peugeot technician but good grief. I've said it before and I'll say it again, these forums can cause as many problems as they solve. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Totally agree, folk with batteries that have served them well for 3 years, and not knowing any better what battery was fitted suddenly getting all steamed up about getting them replaced, why exactly, did they have to jump start their vans every day Like the bloke getting all steamed up about a 90 quid battery,and talking about Watchdog and the rest ,not to mention endless futile conversations, I don't get it. IF it's so important, flog the lower amperage one on Ebay, and put the cash towards another one, a lot less stress, besides, there will be plenty more stress along the way by just buying a motorhome, like a pal of mine with his failed Dometic Fridge freezer three years old, that'll be £1600 plus fitting please . ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisden Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I find this all rather odd? I have a Citroen Relay based Camper and it is fitted with the smaller battery. A Boxer in all but name. In my case I have had problems from new with the battery losing electrolyte requiring regular toping up. Not a simple job as the mega fuse assembly has to be removed to get to all the fill holes. The battery now while working after 30 months must have some damage. I think the problem has something to do with a fancy power controller fitted as new or the onsite 240 volt charger overcharging in storage. I thought it was supposed to be a intelligent bit of kit and monitor it to keep the battery at a fully charged state? When I read this post some weeks ago and needing a annual service with the camper still in the 3 year warrantee I raised this and if Citroen had issued a similar upgrade warning. Hope springs eternal! There answer was interesting. 1 Batteries are not covered? 2 They knew of the recall letter but Citroen had not followed with a similar recall. But my take is this. If it is causing you a problem then try to get it sorted. If it is not don't waist your time. After all a larger better quality unit is only £100 at Halfords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 LordThornber - 2015-07-19 9:50 AM Some folk must have some serious amounts of time to burn if this is causing so much dialogue. Ok, I have a the advantage of my Nephew being a Peugeot technician but good grief. I've said it before and I'll say it again, these forums can cause as many problems as they solve. Martyn This discussion was initiated by Steve928 on 28 April, but (as I said in my posting of 15 July) MMM also reported on the matter in the Summer issue of the magazine. Just in case you (and/or other forum members) have not read the MMM article I’ll quote it. “MAINTENANCE BATTERY SUPPLY ERROR If you have bought a Bailey motorhome in the last three years, check which battery has been supplied. Thanks to a letter from Peugeot Customer Services to Bailey, it has come to light that supplies of Peugeot Boxer cabs for conversion to motorhomes were ordered by Bailey with a 950A starter battery, but were delivered with a less powerful 680A battery. The issue is specific to Bailey motorhomes only. All you have to do is check for the smaller battery in your Bailey motorhome and, if present, get in touch with the dealer that supplied it. This company will receive authorisation from Peugeot and replace the battery with the more powerful one free of charge.” A copy of the Peugeot Customer Services letter was provided by Steve928 in his original posting. While motorhome forums are undoubtedly drivel hotbeds, in this instance Peugeot has evidently apprised Bailey of a mistake on Peugeot’s part and advised Bailey how this error should be resolved. The MMM article essentially repeats Peugeot’s advice to Bailey - if a Bailey motorhome is found to have the CCA 680A battery Peugeot will treat this under the terms of the vehicle’s Peugeot warranty and replace that battery at no cost to the motorhome’s owner. There seems to be no ambiguity about this - if a Bailey motorhome has a 680A battery Peugeot has said that this is incorrect and that the battery will be replaced by a 950A one FOC. If owners of Bailey motorhomes become aware of this replacement policy and find that their vehicles have the 680A battery, it’s hardly surprising that they would want the 680A-to-950A replacement advice to be followed. It’s perverse to suggest that Bailey owners finding that their motorhomes have the 680A battery might choose to offset the cost of replacing that battery with a 950A one by using ebay. Why should they - Peugeot have said it’s their fault and that the 680A battery can be replaced free of charge? The sensible route for a Bailey owner to follow (and certainly in mindhyg’s case) would be to insist that the Bailey dealership that sold the owner the vehicle liaise with Bailey and Peugeot and either get the battery replaced or provide the owner with a credible explanation as to why this should not happen. (Just out of curiosity, Martyn, which battery does your Bailey have - the CCA 680A or the CCA 950A?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan MMM Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Peugeot changes position on Bailey battery issue for third time: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Motorhomes/News/Manufacturers/Peugeot-changes-advice-on-Bailey-battery-issue-again/_ch1_nw4149_pg1 Apparently it's all a misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 The final (5 days old) posting in this Caravan Club discussion http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/community/discussions/information,-technical-tips-advice/motorhomes/Peugeot-Boxer---Battery-Bulletin/rt/1137917/?p=1 may be relevant. It quotes the following reply from Bailey to someone asking about the battery issue "We understand that some customers have received a larger battery and others have been advised that unless there is a problem with their existing 680Ah battery they will not be replaced. We have been advised on a few occasions by Peugeot where we have escalated individual cases to Peugeot’s Customer Care Team that the 680Ah is the correct battery for their Boxer cabs. However, we are presently waiting to receive an official bulletin from Peugeot clearly stating the 680Ah is indeed the correct battery for their Boxer cabs. In the meantime, I would kindly suggest contacting Peugeot’s Customer Care Team on 0845 200 1234 for specific advice.” It seems that (like whoever penned Peugeot’s original Battery Bulletin letter that started the rot) Bailey’s customer service staff are also confused by the difference between a 680Ah battery and a battery with a CCA of 680A. Vehicle manufactuers will not over-specify original equipment batteries and it’s logical that a vehicle with a small capacity motor will be assigned a lesser starter-battery than one with a large capacity powerplant. That’s what happens with Ducatos and there’s no reason to think Boxers should be different. However, what is a mite odd is the choice for 2.2litre Boxers of a physically large battery with a relatively small CCA. It’s not the CCA 680A itself that’s peculiar, it’s that starter-batteries with a CCA around that figure are normally a lot smaller dimensionally than the one fitted to 2.2litre Boxers and batteries with the same dimensions as the Boxer battery normally have a significantly higher CCA. For what it’s worth, the BF02 reinforced battery option is mentioned in a Peugeot Boxer panel-van September 2013 specification and pricing on-line document. It applied to vehicles without the 3.0litre motor and was priced at £24 (VAT Inc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindhyg Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 My initial complaint did go to Bailey as they were the seller of the Motorhome to me. The dealer has got nowhere with Bailey. Bailey just fobbed me off to Peugeot and would not answer any of my questions, hence the dialog with Peugeot. Bailey will not admit that they stipulated the larger battery to be installed at production for their Motorhomes. In fact they will not answer that question at all, but just refer you to Peugeot who will not say whether this is the case or not. One answer from Peugeot amongst other answers is that this is the correct battery for the Boxer cab and they will not change it. Peugeot when asked if Bailey stipulated the higher cranking amps battery will not give any information and just repeat what they said to start with. As you state, these two companies are large companies and I am but just one person trying to get the truth. Taking it to a TV consumer programme may just bring about a change of attitude towards this by Bailey/ Peugeot and TV clout may be able to eek out the true facts for everyone. They love to get their teeth into the big companies who treat their customers with contempt. From what I gather this has been a disastrous PR exercise for Bailey already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Athough plenty of motorcaravanners with post-2006 2.2litre-engined Peugeot Boxer-based motorhomes have said that their vehicle has the CCA 680A battery as original equipment (OE), I do not recall anyone saying that their post-2006 2.2litre-engined Peugeot Boxer-based motorhome has an OE battery with a CCA of 950A. While the BF02 option for a heavier-duty battery clearly exists (and presumably could have been specified by a motorhome converter when purchasing Boxer chassis), Peugeot has now said that Bailey has never chosen that option and Bailey has never claimed that it did choose it. As other motorhome converters’ Boxer-based models with the smaller-capacity motor also appear not to have the CCA 950A battery, there seems little reason to doubt Peugeot’s statement that the CCA 680A battery is standard and it’s quite likely that all small-engined Autocruise, Auto-Sleepers, Bailey and Elddis X250/X290 Boxer-based motorhomes have a CCA 680A battery as OE. It would be educational to learn the background to how and why Peugeot Customer Relations issued the original “incorrect...misleading...nevertheless well-intentioned" Battery Bulletin, but I can’t see Peugeot coming clean about that. Some people have profited from the Bulletin and had their battery ‘upgraded’, while those whose demands for an upgrade have been refused are really no worse off than before even though they might be peeved about not getting a free bigger battery. TV consumer programmes like “Watchdog” like simplicity (Mrs Brown’s washing-machine shredded her frilly silk underwear). Technical issues like this one (and the Fiat juddering episode in the past) are too complicated for Joe Public - it’s bad enough trying to make sense of them on specialist forums. As you rightly say, it’s done nothing to improve the reputation of Baily and Peugeot regarding efficient communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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