Pampam Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I bought a caravan last week its getting delivered tomorrow ive just discovered our transit 260 has the towing power of a knat and i wouldnt be legal towng my hymer nova HOWSTHAT ! Does that mean every campsite at the side of road that i see are all illegal? I havent even got the caravan yet and its a hassle lol i honestly never checked because i thought it would be well capable pp :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Whats your transits GTW Pam? (Gross train weight)........As I believe that dictates what you can tow ;-) ...... Besides thousands of Gypsies would be off the road if it was illegal :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 A transit will tow just about anything well. A friend of mine just swapped to a transit from a Nissan 4WD pick up and says the van tows better. He tows a big enclosed trailer with a racing car in it. How heavy is your caravan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Charles - 2015-09-13 11:23 AM A transit will tow just about anything well. That's a sweeping statement Charles, :-D , as the Transit range is huge and varied, with many differing GVWs, engines, gearbox/final drive ratios, wheel bases, front or rear wheel drive(even all-wheel drive)etc etc Just glancing on the Transit forum and from a discussion on there, it appears as though Pam's 260 (and which I assume is a front wheel drive?)may have quite a low train weight...? http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83642 (hopefully having it running at nearly empty(for a "van"), may be enough to keep below he GTW?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 The towed trailer ? caravan weight should not exceed 80% of the towing vehicle weight , also check the nose weight that is permissible on the tow ball ie the downward weight of the caravan at the two hitch, a Transit should be well capable of towing most caravans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I could be wrong here, but if the caravan you have bought is of the same size as the very large ones favoured by the travelling community, and I believe some are built by Hobby, your problem may well be that it is too wide to be towed by a normal car or van. I don't remember the details, but I do remember looking at these very large caravans, a lot of which had fancy windows and no shower, and finding that however attractive the size and price, they are not suitable for the hobby, excuse the pun, caravanner. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 Eyup yes i was shocked its a hymer nova thatsMTPLM is1650 & MRO is1340 the transit is a T280 swb what it appears can only tow half that weight am quite cheesed off lol :/ its body length is19'3 and overall length 23'6" so not a whopper oh yes and 7'6"" wide cheers pp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 The figures on the plate are 2800 3500 1450 1650 Which i assume means it can tow 700 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Pampam - 2015-09-13 7:39 PM Eyup yes i was shocked its a hymer nova thatsMTPLM is1650 & MRO is1340 the transit is a T280 swb what it appears can only tow half that weight am quite cheesed off lol :/ its body length is19'3 and overall length 23'6" so not a whopper oh yes and 7'6"" wide cheers pp Looks like an early p/ex deal on the Tranny for a Land Rover Discovery. Older models can be picked up cheap enough and the engines more than capable of inter galactic mileage.......similar to Tranny's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Pampam - 2015-09-13 8:01 PM The figures on the plate are 2800 3500 1450 1650 Which i assume means it can tow 700 ? 2800 is the gross weight your Tranny ALONE is allowed to carry/weigh ;-) .... 1450 is the maximum weight your Tranny is allowed to carry on the front axle...... 1650 is the maximum weight your Tranny is allowed to carry on your rear axle...... 3500 is the maximum train weight............ So I suspect a trip to the local weighbridge with your Tranny fully loaded as per normal, will tell you how much you can tow (^) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Pam, All is not lost! You can actually tow more than 700 kg AS LONG AS your Tranny weighs less than 2,800 kg at the time you are towing and the TOTAL TRAIN WEIGHT does not exceed 3,500 kg. There should be wording to this effect in the handbook (assuming you have one (?) ). So if, say, your caravan ACTUALLY weighs 1,340 kg when ready for the road then as long as your Tranny is under 2,160 kg you will still be legal. (ie Total Train weight under 3,500 kg). There is also the 85% ruling and other rules but I doubt these will come into play with a tow vehicle as large as a Tranny. You need to get your Tranny to a weighbridge when ready for the road (and don't forget an allowance for the downforce on the tow hitch!). Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 I am finding this more and more baffling does it not mean that the transit weighs 2800 as it stands? With nothing in the back Therefore if its gross train weught is 3500 surely the trailer cant exceed 700? Or does 2800 mean thats the transit plus load in the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Hello Sorry to hear about your potential problem. I am pretty sure a T280 Transit maximum loaded weight is 2800kg therefore a T350 one is fully loaded at 3500kg. As pointed out you need to look at the gross train weight and deduct your actual weight from it leaving your allowed towable weight. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 Sorry to be really slooow but have i actually got to go and weigh the van on a weighbridge does it not tell me this information in handbook (am layed on bed at moment in pjs and dont fancy going out to van ) cheers pampam : my brain will not absorb these abbreviations and numbers : i wrongly assumed a transit would be a good towcar :/ cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 I think the penny has just dropped If i run the transit unloaded and empty in the back as long as i dont exceed 3500 cwt including the caravan im within the law ? So now i just have to find out the weight of my empty tranny also does it make a difference if the trailer has brakes ? Cheers pp. christ i miss my arapaho :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Even my VW Lupo could tow 800kg. I would get it hitched up and go it will be absolutely fine. Just my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Hi Pam, From what I can find out a Transit T280 will weigh around 1,700 kg when completely empty (sometimes called Kerb Weight). After you have added driver, passenger and load the Max it is legally allowed to weigh is 2,800 kg (the first figure on your plate). So if you only carry around 400 kg IN the van and thus keep the loaded weight of your Transit below 2,100 kg you then have the remainder of the 3,500 kg TRAIN weight to tow your caravan. This should then be approx 1,400 kg. It will be a fine balancing act but it should be achievable! And finally trailer brakes! Any trailer over 750 kg MUST have brakes, by law. There may be different restrictions on what your Transit can tow with or without brakes but for your case your caravan will have brakes so nothing for you to worry about. Hope this clears things up a little. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Hi Pam, On the Camping and Caravan Club site it states ' Legally, if you add together the Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) of your car and the MTPLM of your caravan, the total weight must not exceed the GTW of the car' So, irrespective of whether your transit is empty or not the combined MAM of the teansit and the MTPLM of the caravan cannot exceed the Gross Train Weight. As your Transits MAM is 2800 and the caravan MTPLM is 1650 that gives a twain weight of 4450kg - a little over the plated train weight of 3500kg. sometimes a vehicle handbook will advise that it has a towing limit of (say) 2000kg but this does not mean it is legal to tow that weight. Although some would advise just going ahead irrespective of the figures I would not as the police and VOSA have regular blitzes on caravan weights and the penalties are hefty. Not to mention the fact that these limits are in force for a reason and, as someone who has towed large caravans, I can say that blustery winds, overtaking HGV's, loading of tow vehicle and caravan are critical factors when it comes to finding stability on the road. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 This Forum has a specific Caravan forum, it might be a good idea to talk to folks on there as they are all Caravanners, most of us on here have had Caravans at on time before Motorhomes , so the answers you get from the other forum may be more helpful and someone may even have the same van as you ? I am not suggesting folks on here do not know what they are talking about just that you may get more input from the other forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 vindiboy - 2015-09-14 10:13 AM This Forum has a specific Caravan forum, it might be a good idea to talk to folks on there as they are all Caravanners, most of us on here have had Caravans at on time before Motorhomes , so the answers you get from the other forum may be more helpful and someone may even have the same van as you ? I am not suggesting folks on here do not know what they are talking about just that you may get more input from the other forum. 'Problem is, other sections of this forum get very little traffic... (just glanced at the caravan section: and a good portion of threads on the first page have gone unanswered... :-S ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 david lloyd - 2015-09-14 10:12 AM On the Camping and Caravan Club site it states ' Legally, if you add together the Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) of your car and the MTPLM of your caravan, the total weight must not exceed the GTW of the car' I'm afraid that putting 'Legally' in front of a statement on a website doesn't mean that it's law. In a similar vein a lot of towing-related websites still state that it is illegal to tow a trailer whose MTPLM is greater than the vehicle's maximum towing weight. VOSA issued the following clarification regarding towing in their document 'Guide for horsebox and trailer owners'. “It’s the actual weight of the vehicle and load which is important in determining a vehicle’s compliance with legal weight thresholds, not the potential carrying capacity.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 It all sounds rather like "Press the restart button" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Many years ago when my children were young we had a new Sprit Major, the alloy sides were dimpled so you can judge the age. I towed that all over the country and on one occasion to Switzerland with a 1200cc Ford Cortina saloon. I was asked many times how did I manage to tow it but it did with no problems at all. It was a matter of balancing the weight distribution. I am aware that I might not get away with it today but it's surprising just how good Monro Load Levellers were as the caravan sat level behind the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I have tried to match up your outfit with the Caravan Club's matching service but a Transit is not listed as a tow vehicle. As you haven't yet taken possession of the caravan why not speak to the dealer to see if he can sell you something more suitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I'm afraid you're going to have to spend more time at weighbridges, Pam! You have two sets of figures to balance. First the weight of your transit. If Keith's figure for the kerbweight of your Transit is appropriate, it can weigh anything between 1,700kg and 2,800kg. Second, the weight of the Hymer Nova. Empty, it will weigh a bit less than its MIRO, but MIRO will give a good guide. So, it can weigh anything between 1,340kg and 1,650kg. When both are hitched together, their combined weight must not exceed 3,500kg. But, you can't drive the Transit at 1,700kg, because you need to be on board to drive it, and there is no allowance for a driver's weight in the kerbweight figure. In practise there will presumably be two of you, and the standard allowance for an adult in a motorhome is 75kg, so allow say, 150kg (but, in reality, you must substitute your actual weights). So, the Transit now weighs 1,850kg. So, if you could drive your Transit at that weight (doubtful!) you could tow the Hymer loaded to 1,650kg, which, coincidentally, is it's MAM. The normal recommendation for towing weight, as said above, is that the actual weight of the trailer should not exceed 85% of the actual laden weight of the towing vehicle. The example above exceeds this recommendation (1,850 laden Transit x 85% = 1,572.5kg), but not by a huge margin. The actual payload you have to play with is 310kg. Also, as stated above, the usual recommendation for stable towing is that 7% of the actual laden weight of the trailer should fall onto the towing vehicle tow hitch (towball). This downforce is limited by the design of the tow bracket (and in turn by the maker of the two vehicle, in your case Ford) and will be stated on a plate attached to the bracket, usually just beside the towball. I have no idea what the downforce limit for your Transit is, but the owner's manual will tell you. It is usually recommended that weight is transferred from the caravan to the tow vehicle while towing, because it is better to have a relatively heavy vehicle towing a light trailer that a relatively light vehicle towing a heavy trailer. If you placed the whole 310kg payload in the Transit it would weigh only 2,150kg, so well under its 2,800kg MAM. That would leave the Hymer at its MIRO - basically empty. In this condition the noseweight on the hitch would need to be 94kg or more (check against tow bar limit) to meet the recommended minimum, and the ratio of caravan weight to Transit weight would be 62%, so well under the 85% recommended maximum. OTOH, if you placed the whole 310kg payload in the Hymer the Transit could weigh only a maximum of 1,850kg, to remain within its Gross Train Weight. That would leave the Hymer at 1,650kg - so fully laden within its MAM. The downforce limit for a Mk7 Transit appears to be 112kg (but check this for your model), which implies a sensible maximum Hymer weight of 1,600kg, leaving the Transit running at 1,900kg. So, if the above assumptions are correct (and my maths is sound! :-)), at one end of the scale you can leave the Hymer empty with the whole of your 310kg payload in the Transit, or at the other end, place 260kg in the Hymer to load it to 1,600kg, leaving the Transit at 1,900kg, all within the legal limits of both Hymer and Transit, while observing both the 85% rule and the 7% noseweight recommendation, and not overload the tow hitch. 310 kg is a bit over 6 cwt, so seems a reasonable payload allowance. I think it should work quite well, though you'll have to visit the weighbridge a few times initially to arrive at a practical split of load that works for you. Time to look out the Transit manual? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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