Fiat Comfortmatic gearbox

[Rogertracker]

We have recently had a problem with our 2011 Autotrail Tracker when the automatic gearbox failed after only 16800 miles. We have had the vehicle in for repair and including parts and labour came to £1350! We have tried to claim from Fiat and they have come up with a derisory £250 off the next service. Any comments would be appreciated.

[mikebeaches]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

 

What is the problem with the Comfortmatic gearbox?

[Pampam]

Hello rogertracker we had a comfotmatic fail on our autotrail cheyanne after two months the dealership couldnt find the fault we ended up partexing for a new van (left a very bitter taste in mouth ) hope yours is okay now , ours was just out of warranty with similar mileage to yours when it happened cheers pp :/

[rolandrat]

It's very rare to hear of Comfortmatic gearbox faults, there are thousands out there on the roads so the odd one or two might crop up occasionally. ALL the Fiat x250 ambulances in our area are Comfortmatic and are in use 24/7. Like all government run organisations operating costs are being cut to the bone and ambulances are no exception. I have a close relative who drives them plus Mercs. They are achieving very high mileages running at maximum weights and are very reliable. It would be interesting to know what fault had developed to warrant such an amount of money.

[rolandrat]

Rogertracker - 2015-10-28 5:09 PM

 

We have recently had a problem with our 2011 Autotrail Tracker when the automatic gearbox failed after only 16800 miles. We have had the vehicle in for repair and including parts and labour came to £1350! We have tried to claim from Fiat and they have come up with a derisory £250 off the next service. Any comments would be appreciated.

 

 

Well you have had a response to your post so perhaps you can enlighten us as to the so called failure which resulted in you receiving a bill for £1350.

[Derek Uzzell]

There has been the occasional report on this forum about ComfortMatic-related problems, with this one being the longest

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/3-0-comfort-matic-gearbox-failure/34325/

 

Fiat’s ComfortMatic transmission essentially comprises the manual 6-speed gearbox with extra ‘stuff’ that allows the clutch-pedal to be dispensed with. When a problem occurs it seems to be the case that it’s the ‘stuff’ that’s usually at fault not the gearbox itself, and that accurately diagnosing where in the ‘stuff’ the fault lies is the primary stumbling-block to fixing the fault, and it’s mostly labour-costs that ramp up the bill.

 

While fully understanding that a £1350 bill for fixing a fault with a low-mileage motorhome will irk, once the vehicle is out of warranty there’s nothing forcing the vehicle’s manufacturer to refund all or any of the repair costs.

 

 

[Rogertracker]

They found that there was fluid on the clutch plates

[rolandrat]

Thanks for getting back and highlighting the fault. At least we now know that it didn't have anything to do with the electronics. I'm on my second 3ltr Comfortmatic, the previous one did over 45000 when I parted with it and my present one has some way to go before matching it. I will never do the high mileages that the Lancashire ambulance service do with their 3ltr Comfortmatics.

[lennyhb]

Rogertracker - 2015-10-29 6:46 PM

 

They found that there was fluid on the clutch plates

Was it the slave cylinder leaking? if so could happen to any box not just the comformatic as the slave cylinder is inside the bell housing.

[Brian Kirby]

On which basis, it sounds to me to have been clutch failure, and not really gearbox failure. My next question, therefore, is what was actually replaced in order to stack up a bill of £1350, say £1125 ex VAT?

 

If components were, say, £200, that leaves £925 for labour which, at say £60 per hour amounts to 15.5 hours + the 20% VAT. So it seems either something more expensive was replaced - or it took a very long time to replace it. Does this sound about right? Gearboxes alone cost way more than £1350, and it surely doesn't take two full days to replace a clutch? Be interesting to know.

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian

 

It’s likely that Nick Fisher (euroserv) would be able to comment on what’s involved in clutch replacement on a Ducato with ComfortMatic transmission (which might well vary according to whether the motor is the 3.0litre or 2.3litre one) and whether a £1350 charge is excessive.

 

However, although a problem due to a contaminated clutch on a Ducato with manual transmission may be relatively straightforward to accurately diagnose, allowing a quick decision to be made that the gearbox needs to be removed, this may well not be the case with ComfortMatic where the electronics may ‘mask’ the fault.

 

As I said earlier, when ComfortMatic faults have been reported in the past, resolution of the faults usually seems to have involved a good deal of time (and money) spent in diagnosis. That might have been the case here, as - unless there was external evidence that fluid was finding its way on to the clutch plates (eg. fluid was dripping from the bell-housing) - lengthy diagnosis might have been carried out before it was decided the gearbox needed removal.

 

It would be helpful to know how the problem presented itself, causing the vehicle to need attention, and (as you say) what the £1350 bill covers regarding labour and parts. Without more background I’m uncertain if RogerTracker believes that he was badly overcharged for the work that was carried out, or just feels that Fiat ought to be more benevolent.

[Keithl]

Brian Kirby - 2015-10-29 11:58 PM

 

On which basis, it sounds to me to have been clutch failure, and not really gearbox failure. My next question, therefore, is what was actually replaced in order to stack up a bill of £1350, say £1125 ex VAT?

 

If components were, say, £200, that leaves £925 for labour which, at say £60 per hour amounts to 15.5 hours + the 20% VAT. So it seems either something more expensive was replaced - or it took a very long time to replace it. Does this sound about right? Gearboxes alone cost way more than £1350, and it surely doesn't take two full days to replace a clutch? Be interesting to know.

 

Brian,

 

But you could be seriously out on your pricing!

 

A clutch kit could cost anything from £200 to over £300 AND more importantly if the flywheel had been damaged by the slipping clutch then that could add anything from possibly another £400 to £500.

 

So the parts bill alone could easily be in the order of £600 to £800.

 

It all now makes sense but Ouch!

 

Keith.

[Mike88]

Brian Kirby - 2015-10-29 11:58 PM

 

On which basis, it sounds to me to have been clutch failure, and not really gearbox failure. My next question, therefore, is what was actually replaced in order to stack up a bill of £1350, say £1125 ex VAT?

 

If components were, say, £200, that leaves £925 for labour which, at say £60 per hour amounts to 15.5 hours + the 20% VAT. So it seems either something more expensive was replaced - or it took a very long time to replace it. Does this sound about right? Gearboxes alone cost way more than £1350, and it surely doesn't take two full days to replace a clutch? Be interesting to know.

 

Gone are the days when main Dealers charged £60 per hour. The current rate is more like £100 per hour. New slave cylinder, new clutch assembly, cleaning the flywheel, labour etc will rack up the charges so it is not difficult to understand how the £1350 cost was racked up.

[Brian Kirby]

My £60 per hour was ex VAT, but even at £80 per hour (approx £100 less VAT), the full bill minus the parts charge, would seem to buy a substantial amount of time. It seems there was a premature component failure which, if correctly presented to Fiat customer services, and if backed by testimony from the dealer, should have resulted in a more generous contribution than that offered.

 

In more normal (commercial) use that failure would have arisen well within the warranty period, and would appear to relate only to the number of operations performed, which must have been well within the design requirement for the component concerned. If the assumption that the failure was the slave cylinder is correct, it is that failure which caused the damage presumed to have affected the clutch. It seems to me the OP is being asked to bear unreasonable costs for the knock-on effect of the premature failure of a component. Like Derek, I'd be interested in Nick's opinion on this in due course.

[Mike88]

Brian Kirby - 2015-10-30 1:03 PM

 

My £60 per hour was ex VAT, but even at £80 per hour (approx £100 less VAT), the full bill minus the parts charge, would seem to buy a substantial amount of time.

 

My £100 was ex Vat also. My Audi dealership charges £111+VAT and the last time i took my motorhome into a Fiat dealership I paid £280 for little more than an oil change/inspection service which probably represents even more than the hourly figures quoted.

[euroserv]

Brian Kirby - 2015-10-30 1:03 PM

 

My £60 per hour was ex VAT, but even at £80 per hour (approx £100 less VAT), the full bill minus the parts charge, would seem to buy a substantial amount of time. It seems there was a premature component failure which, if correctly presented to Fiat customer services, and if backed by testimony from the dealer, should have resulted in a more generous contribution than that offered.

 

In more normal (commercial) use that failure would have arisen well within the warranty period, and would appear to relate only to the number of operations performed, which must have been well within the design requirement for the component concerned. If the assumption that the failure was the slave cylinder is correct, it is that failure which caused the damage presumed to have affected the clutch. It seems to me the OP is being asked to bear unreasonable costs for the knock-on effect of the premature failure of a component. Like Derek, I'd be interested in Nick's opinion on this in due course.

 

I agree with you Brian. If the fault was a failed/leaking concentric slave cylinder, this would normally not be covered by an extended warranty, or a period of goodwill after that but in the case of the comfort-matic (and especially at such low mileage) there is nothing that the driver could have done to cause or prevent this failure and even the number of actuations will have been recorded by the ecu so if this had been presented correctly to Fiat; I am sure that the contribution would have been greater.

 

I strongly recommend that if he has not already done so, the owner should contact Fiat Customer Assistance on 0080034280000. Get a case number from them and they will investigate it. You have nothing to lose, and quite a bit to gain. If there has already been contact directly between the owner and Fiat UK then this is probably as far as you can go but most customers are told the outcome of a claim by the dealer and accept that as final. It rarely is.

 

Nick