Colinvee Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I Have a 2007 Dethleffs motorhome powered by the 3.0 L Fiat engine. For the last couple of years I have been suffering from an intermittent problem(s) causing my EML to come on and go off for (usually) no apparent reason. I say "usually" because very occasionally it's appearance has been preceded by a "hiccup" from the engine. The worst was when I left the engine running as I queued to pay my site fees (after a week standing) and when I came to move off it behaved like a petrol engine with dodgy plugs. The engine returned to normal after a quick blast along the nearby dual carriageway and the EML stayed lit for a while but eventually failed to illuminate when starting up some time later. (which is how it normally disappears) I have had the fault code memory read by my trusty garage in Leicester and after our Spring trip to Spain there were so many different errors it should have been impossible for the vehicle to move yet at the time the EML was not illuminated. The last single fault code to be recorded was "throttle body" but my garage openly said that they could not guarantee a successful outcome even if this was replaced. Anyone else out there had a similar problem and solved it? I keep coming back to the thought that there may be a wiring issue such as a short somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 If you search the forum for "throttle body" in the banner at the top of this page, you will get a recent discussion of this. Otherwise it could be water seeping through the windscreen seal. A similar search will show that thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 My inclination would be to buy my own fault code reader, plug it in and clear them all, then start again reading each one as the eml says that a fault registers as there may well be nothing wrong at all except confusion from too many false signals. I use this one that I bought from Amazon as do some others (out of stock?) but it must be said that it does not seem to work on all engines but at least with Amazon you can usually easily exchange it for another one, can't speak for fleabay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/251983146859?adgroupid=13585920426&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=kwd-75951453186&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=207297426&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 For those, like me, who haven't a clue what EML stands for - I've just googled it and apparently it stands for " engine management light". I really must get out more and embrace the world of abbreviations !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Is this not, including the engine hiccup, a symptom of the infamous earth strap failure? It would be worth looking for the earth strap between the gearbox and the chassis earth point, and inspecting their general condition, especially the connection points. It is a braided strap, and is prone to corrosion, as are the connection points. It is desirable to remove the strap at the connections to fully inspect the condition of the latter. If corrosion is found, the solution seems to be to replace the strap with one made from battery connection cable with appropriate connection lugs made on at both ends, and to connect from the chassis earth point to a clean bright bolt on the end of the gearbox in preference to re-using the existing location. A forum search with earth strap as the keywords, Euroserve as the poster, motorhome matters as the forum to search, and one year as the time slot, should bring up all the details. Euroserve (Nick Fisher) has given very detailed instructions on this on a number of occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Euroserv - no end 'e'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I had similar problem returning from Spain last month quiet intermttant The symptoms are difficult to start, no power when accelerator depressed clouds of black smoke, after a couple of attempts to rev engine it kicks into life then runs just about ok, reduced miles per gallon and sometimes lack of power, also engine management light comes on I used a reader and this code came up It showed fault code P0402, description: Exhaust gas recirculation A flow excessive. I Checked all the vacuum pipes to the EGR valve, ok Diagnosis is to remove the EGR and clean out then refit takes about 1-2 hours work. Or buy a new one quotes £129 to £320 I rang a main dealer , and they said that there are 2 electro valves which work in conjuntion with the EGR valve, The hose which comes off the EGR valve goes into 1 of them. They said it could possibly be 1 of them, or both at fault, but to be sure I would have to get it diagnosed by them at a cost of £50 + VAT. electro valves are £40 + VAT as well on top! It as been suggested to me that part of the problem could be cheap diesel from the supermarkets as they do not contain any detergents to clean the fuel system. or I have I have been driving the van to economically HA HA . the engine is just over the 48k mark and serviced every year by a commercial garage Well after some research I found an article written by A Fiat techy advising a motor mechanic on how to clear fault code and also do a regeneration mode whilst van connected to diagnostic computer. This regeneration is done by computer ,revs engine to over 3k for set number of minutes this is to get MANIFOLD REALLY HOT, WHICH THEN BURNS SOOT AND Residue OFF. HENCE CLEARING THE EGR valve. So I thought I would take the Van onto the heads of the Valleys road the A645 this road climbs one valley then drops down into the next then climbs the next and so on, I have to say, I also added a bottle of Redex to the fuel tank along with a half tank of Texaco diesel. No I did not drive gently no 5th or 6th gear was used, in some climbs in 3rd with 4k revs the run from Ebbw vale to Glyn Neath and back gave the engine a bit of a rough ride blue smoke and some black on the way down but clear all the way back . It looks like it may have worked as no warning light as come back on and the van is running and starting Ok. So no more gentle long runs at 50mph in 6th with cruise control on its going to get 60mph with 4th gear and some high revs….Touch wood all running ok at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 ham - 2015-11-07 4:34 PM . It looks like it may have worked as no warning light as come back on and the van is running and starting Ok. So no more gentle long runs at 50mph in 6th with cruise control on its going to get 60mph with 4th gear and some high revs….Touch wood all running ok at the moment Just out of curiosity ...... how many RPM is your engine doing at 50 in 6th gear? 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Unless the engine is making nasty mechanical noises the old remedy of a pint of Redex and a bucket of revs still seems to apply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 My experience of fault code readers would suggest they can be a waste of time, my van was diagnosed with EGR valve problems by Fiat (un)Profesional when it was no such thing, the reason being Fiat had not programmed it to reconise a mouse in the inlet. Nick has shown me the way to check the most common problem with throttle body and I would hope that your garage would check this first before changing, but my experiance once again of Fiat (un)Professional, is that they just change parts hoping something will improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Tracker - 2015-11-07 3:59 PM Euroserv - no end 'e'! Well spotted Rich. Ta! Also just spotted that the first e isn't capitalised, either. euroserv. Durrrrrrrrrrr! :-( Apologies for any time wasted on duff searches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeco Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Is "EML" like a "TLA" just a three letter acronym!Cheers,Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 747 - 2015-11-07 5:08 PM ham - 2015-11-07 4:34 PM . It looks like it may have worked as no warning light as come back on and the van is running and starting Ok. So no more gentle long runs at 50mph in 6th with cruise control on its going to get 60mph with 4th gear and some high revs….Touch wood all running ok at the moment Just out of curiosity ...... how many RPM is your engine doing at 50 in 6th gear? 8-) If it's anything like mine, a very economical 1700 rpm. But of course with all the 'Throat Strangling' Emission gubbins, a rash of 'EML's' are just around the corner ! seems like running a 'new' diesel engine economically just isn't possible ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-11-08 5:53 AM 747 - 2015-11-07 5:08 PM ham - 2015-11-07 4:34 PM . It looks like it may have worked as no warning light as come back on and the van is running and starting Ok. So no more gentle long runs at 50mph in 6th with cruise control on its going to get 60mph with 4th gear and some high revs….Touch wood all running ok at the moment Just out of curiosity ...... how many RPM is your engine doing at 50 in 6th gear? 8-) If it's anything like mine, a very economical 1700 rpm. But of course with all the 'Throat Strangling' Emission gubbins, a rash of 'EML's' are just around the corner ! seems like running a 'new' diesel engine economically just isn't possible ? I would never drive at those low revs in high gear, I believe they are too low. I know that Maximum Torque is usually around that figure and some people (mistakenly I believe) think that Max Torque equates with Max Efficiency and therefore Max MPG. Add in a Dual Mass Flywheel and I believe it makes matters worse as they are very expensive to replace. As I say, this is my opinion and if anyone has a different opinion, then fine. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinvee Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Hi 747 I reckon it will be around the 1700 mark as noted by someone else but I would never run it at that. I have always taken it up to around 2500 and then changed up a gear. and cruise at around 2000 no matter what gear I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinvee Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Cheers Brian Will look this up and check it out. Thanks for feedback. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinvee Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Hi Ham Not had the problems you have had fortunately. I have had vehicle for 3 years now and have maintained a steady 24mpg on our 2 and 3 month trips. The vehicle is 4000kg and pulls a trailer with a scooter. I admit neither of us make an attempt to drive economically so maybe we could improve this. Glad your "Italian Tune-up" seems to have worked. Thanks for tips. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinvee Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Thanks Tracker Will give that a try and start with a clean sheet. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Hi I always ran a 6Cyl Turbo Diesel at 107rpm?. It got better, BMEP and fuel consumption figures than at 110rpm. Mind, the Fuel had to be preheated to 80C to get it started. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Colinvee - 2015-11-08 3:42 PM Hi 747 I reckon it will be around the 1700 mark as noted by someone else but I would never run it at that. I have always taken it up to around 2500 and then changed up a gear. and cruise at around 2000 no matter what gear I'm in. I do much the same. When I had the 5 speed Ducato 2.8 JTD I used to cruise around 2,000 RPM but revved up to 3,000 RPM when going up through the gears. This was a 5 Ton MAM Tag Axle van. I now have a Renault Master 3.0 (Nissan) diesel with a 6 speed box. I still go to 3,000 in the first 4 gears but like you, nearer 2,500 for 5th and 6th gear. I am now driving a 4.5 Ton MAM vehicle and find the 6 speed box a real pleasure to use. The ratios match speed limits far better (30, 40, 50 etc.), no more chugging or racing the engine in lower gears. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I had the same symptoms with my van and it was the EGR valve which I replaced The code reader recommended wouldn't read my vans ECU. I'm using this it also allows me to reset service lights ABS and Airbags and some other functions as well http://www.multiecuscan.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 witzend - 2015-11-08 6:13 PM I had the same symptoms with my van and it was the EGR valve which I replaced The code reader recommended wouldn't read my vans ECU. I'm using this it also allows me to reset service lights ABS and Airbags and some other functions as well http://www.multiecuscan.com/ What are you running it under? I have issues getting it to recognise my ELM? with Windows 10 OR Xp? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 This sounds very much like a throttle body problem to me. Since you are in Leicester; why not pop it in and i will have a look for you? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 PeteH - 2015-11-08 7:44 PM What are you running it under? I have issues getting it to recognise my ELM? with Windows 10 OR Xp? Pete Have you seen the linked article on the multiecuscan home page? Some Chinese ELM interfaces have problems, which the article shows you how to fix by soldering new resistors onto the PCB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 PeteH - 2015-11-08 7:44 PM[ What are you running it under? I have issues getting it to recognise my ELM? with Windows 10 OR Xp? Pete I'm using win 7 its not compatible with XP but 10's ok Have you installed the drivers req Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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