Ducato tyre life

[Geeco]

I had to replace the front tyres on my Auto-trail Tracker FB at 18,000klms. The wear was even right across the tread. I run 70psi all round as this setting seems to offer acceptable ride quality. I have replaced the original "CP" with "C" as no "CP" tyres were available. New and old are Agilis. I have read several threads here an elsewhere on tyre pressures but do not remember if tyre life was mentioned. Would appreciate some feed back on what is acceptable tyre life on this MH type with FWD. The rears are wearing evenly and are at around 50% worn after 22,000klms.

cheers,

[Cliffy]

 

Our Tracker is quite different to yours as it is 2004 - 2.0 JTD.

 

FOYI

 

The front tyres, Continental Vanco CPs, are due to be changed now after around 15000 miles. Running at 69 psi. The rears are around 50 worn. All fitted at the same time.

 

 

 

[armstrongpiper]

Our Tracker was 2008, 3 ltr Comfortmatic. Tyre wear was much the same as you report. Used 65psi all round. Changed from original fitted Continental to Hankook and didn't notice any change in road noise, performance etc.

 

Neil B

 

 

[HymerVan]

Our Citroen Relay (similar to Ducato) has done 28000 and all four tyres are fine. Probably get another 3000 miles out of fronts and more out of rears but will probably replace all four at the same time.

Van travels relatively light but still around 3.25 tonnes when touring.

[Derek Uzzell]

Gary

 

Assuming that your Tracker’s front tyres were close to Australia’s minimum legal tread-depth when you felt the need to replace them, I would think 18000km (around 11000 miles) is on the lowish side. However, as is advised here

 

http://www.racq.com.au/cars-and-driving/cars/owning-and-maintaining-a-car/car-maintenance/tyres

 

there are many factors affecting the wear-rate.

 

Your Tracker has the 150bhp 2.3litre motor, which might be harder on front tyres than the 130bhp unit if you exploited the 150’s extra torque/power. Conversely, your motorhome has ComfortMatic transmission, which might stress front tyres less than a manual gearbox.

 

In your posting of 30 July 2015 8:10 AM in this earlier discussion

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Reading-speedo-in-dull-conditions-/38945/

 

you mentioned “outback Aussie roads” and having travelled some 17000km in six months (which many UK motorcaravanners wouldn’t cover in two years). Driving regularly on roads with an abrasive surface is bound to produce higher tyre-wear than driving on super-smooth roads.

 

As the tyres you replaced had worn evenly across the tread I’m not sure there’s much you can do to improve matters. Reducing tyre pressures won’t help (and would more likely than not lead to higher wear), but - even though the wear on the old tyres was even - it might still be worth having the motorhome’s steering geometry checked just to be certain it’s OK.

 

As you may well be aware, received wisdom is that tyres with the most tread should be fitted to a vehicle’s rear axle (Section 6 here)

 

http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/care-guide/ten-tyre-care-tips

 

[lennyhb]

18,000 km sounds very low, our last Hymer on a Ducato X250 130, had Conti Vanco campers running at 60 psi, van had done 28,000 miles (45000 km) when we sold it, front tyres still had 6mm of tread depth.

[armstrongpiper]

In my earlier reply, I missed the distance reference as Km. My tyre distance covered was in miles.

 

Neil B

[Mike B.]

I have just had my van tyres checked at ATS as being MOTd today. I have been advised they are in perfect condition and plenty of tread left on them for at least 3k front and 5k rear. They have done 47,800 from new and the spare is still in the garage unused. There are no cracks on them or uneven wear.

My question is:

Is this unusual as the mileage quoted on here seems a lot less than mine?

The tyres are Michelin Camper and I run them at 65psi

It is a 2.8 2006 reg 7m low profile (old model) and I wonder if the x250 type wear tyres quicker?

 

I would be interested what other people get from their tyres

Mike

[Willy Wonka]

I've just done a check on the treads of my Continental CP tyres.

 

With 20,000 miles coming up soon and less than 3 years old there's 6 mm tread on the front tyres and 8 mm on the rear.

 

I run them at the Continental recommended pressures (applicable to my axle weights) with 60psi on the rear and 50psi on the front.

 

This gives a good ride with no obvious problems.

 

The minimum required by law is 1.6mm which seems very low and I wouldn't, from a personal point of view, go anywhere near as low as that.

 

I don't know how much less tread is advisable before replacing them but with 3500kg of Motorhome to stop in wet conditions I wonder at what point experienced MH owners decide to be safe rather than sorry and put their hands in their pockets to buy new ones.

 

[EJB]

My 2002 Tracker (2Ltr JTD) runs at 50 PSI front and 55PSI rear as advised by Michelin.

Agilis campers.....last set did about 25K miles with plenty of tread left before I changed them at the 6 year point!

[Brian Kirby]

Mike B. - 2015-11-18 12:39 PM

 

I have just had my van tyres checked at ATS as being MOTd today. I have been advised they are in perfect condition and plenty of tread left on them for at least 3k front and 5k rear. They have done 47,800 from new and the spare is still in the garage unused. There are no cracks on them or uneven wear.

My question is:

Is this unusual as the mileage quoted on here seems a lot less than mine?

The tyres are Michelin Camper and I run them at 65psi

It is a 2.8 2006 reg 7m low profile (old model) and I wonder if the x250 type wear tyres quicker?

 

I would be interested what other people get from their tyres

Mike

Different tyres, different vans, different weights, different drivers, different countries, different patterns of use. Given that amount of variation, I think almost anything could be considered "normal" wear. One can only make realistic comparisons between different apples of the same variety, not between apples and other fruit.

 

I think Gary's are wearing somewhat quickly, but I don't know how he drives, or what Australian roads are like. Ours has done 15,700 miles in about 2.5 years, and the front tyres are looking (unchecked) about 50% worn. But, it has spent little time on motorways and quite a lot on Alpine roads and passes, so a higher rate of wear is to be expected.

[Geeco]

On reflection I think the comments made by Derek & Brian on road surfaces is possibly one of the major contributing factors. While we rarely go off the bitumen a big percentage of the back roads we normally travel are chipped stone on bitumen. I expect that type of surface would cause higher wear rates than smooth hot mix. I also have a MB E250 that has done 46,000 klms with around 25% of tread left. Interestingly most of that distance has been logged on the motorway between Sydney & Melbourne that has in the main nice smooth hot mix, so I guess I have almost answered my own question. I have not driven a 130hp Ducato so no comparo with 150hp but I have noticed that sometimes the front wheels do "chirp" on take off when accelerating into traffic from a side road especially when facing up hill due to the weight transfer. The anti skid electronics seem a little slow to take up. I guess all those issues add to the wear. Thank you again for your very sensible comments much appreciated.

Cheers,

[lennyhb]

Geeco - 2015-11-18 11:24 PM

 

. I have not driven a 130hp Ducato so no comparo with 150hp but I have noticed that sometimes the front wheels do "chirp" on take off when accelerating into traffic from a side road especially when facing up hill due to the weight transfer. The anti skid electronics seem a little slow to take up. I guess all those issues add to the wear. Thank you again for your very sensible comments much appreciated.

Cheers,

 

My current van has the 150 with comformatic box, only time I have lost front wheel grip pulling away is on damp or wet roads on very steep hills 1 in 6 or steeper. Lose of front wheel grip in the dry would indicate a low friction surface which in therory would give lower tyre wear.

[aandncaravan]

Brian is right there will be big variations across vehicles, usage, Countries, etc.

Tyre Rubber softens as the temperature rises so will wear more quickly in a Hot Clime. Conversely rubber can be become very hard in cold climates so wear very little. Add in slippery Rain and tyre wear will reduce further.

 

A low profile van will require a lot less power to move through the Air than one with a high frontal area which will require the engine to work harder. This will put less stress on the tyres than a low profile vehicle.

 

In theory a low profile vehicle used to tour Scotland in Winter could have less than half the Tyre wear of a less aerodynamic vehicle on a Summer Spanish tour on comparable mileage on the same chassis and the same make of Tyres.

 

And that doesn't even take into account driving style.

 

Scandinavian countries used to have the option of a very soft tyre rubber compound for Winter use, which used to wear very quickly when the temperatures rose. Don't know if that still applies with all the recent advances in Tyre compound technology?

Likewise South African Fords had a harder rubber compound than the UK.

 

I wonder if the Autotrail tyres were UK spec or Australian spec, if there is still such a thing?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

aandncaravan - 2015-11-20 9:47 PM

 

I wonder if the Autotrail tyres were UK spec or Australian spec, if there is still such a thing?

 

 

In Gary’s first posting on this thread he said that his Auto-Trail’s original tyres and the replacements were “Agilis” with the originals being “CP”-marked and the replacements being “C”-marked (because “CP”-marked tyres were not available). So the original tyres would have been Michelin “Agilis Camping” and the replacements Michelin “Agilis”.

 

The tyres (225/75 R16CP on Gary’s Tracker?) would have been fitted to the Fiat Ducato chassis at the Italian SEVEL factory before that chassis was shipped to Auto-Trail in the UK and I can’t see Auto-Trail swapping tyres on motorhomes destined for Australia. As far as I’m aware Michelin “Agilis Camping” comes in one flavour only, though the commercial “Agilis” pattern might have a variant designed with the Australian climate and road surfaces in mind.

[witzend]

X250 2.2 has 46600 mls on Bridgestone van tyres and still OK for a few K yet changed diagonally at each 12 mth service so even wear all around

[Geeco]

Derek, All the information you have listed is correct for my MH. I looked at the tyres yesterday and the CP's were made in Poland, not sure about the C's as the country of manufacture was not obvious. Both tyre types are the same size 225/75R16 and with very similar tread patterns. I would agree it is highly unlikely that a different compound is made for Australia in C or CP style. The roads here are in some way similar to the B roads in Spain that I have travelled on so again I do not think Michelin would run a special for a relatively low volume. The more I think about this topic the more I am convinced it is a combination of FWD, weight and granite chip on tar roads that has caused the tyre wear. Than you all for your input much appreciated.

Cheers,

[Robinhood]

Gary,

 

I've had a quick look back, and I note that no-one has mentioned that, with a switch from CP to C tyres, you should be careful what pressures you are now running them at.

 

It is possible (likely) that the maximum pressure recommended for the C tyres will be somewhat less than those recommended for the CP ones, and since Michelin invariably recommend running the CPs at their maximum, your handbook recommended pressures (around 5.5 bar?) may well be higher than those that the C tyres will handle.

 

This is not, in itself, a problem as long as the load index on the replacement tyres is the same as (or greater than) those on the originals, simply now use the pressures recommended for C tyres.

 

For myself, I would choose to run CP tyres at the lower pressures recommended for C tyres anyway (as long as I knew my axle-loadings), but this is based on experience of Continental's explicit recommendations, and Michelin's before they changed practice. It has always resulted in much-improved ride and handling.

 

Any decent tyre replacement place should have set the pressures up correctly anyway, but they may not have told you.

 

 

 

[Geeco]

The C tyre is rated marginally above the CP, I did check that before purchasing them. I did find  a few weeks after taking delivery of the MH and experimenting with tyres pressures the vehicle seemed to work best at 70psi all round, thus the replacement tyres have also been set at 70psi. Now after around 2000klms there is no discernible difference in ride quality.

Cheers,