Outlandish Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Hi everyone, I took the plunge and purchased my first ever motorhome just a few weeks ago. I have been researching and trying to decide on what size and layout to buy for years until a dog walking acquaintance of mine turned up at the park in his new motorhome, an Apache 700. Well I only got to view it from the outside but was impressed with what I saw. When I got home I thought I would google it to establish the layout, it was then that I realised that this was the layout for us. Rear lounge, mid diner and overcab. Although there are only two of us I thought it was a bit selfish to just cater for ourselves when we have two sons who, between them, have six children. My wife Val and I thought a 6 berth provided a holidaying opportunity for all the family. Anyhow we went to Brownhills of Newark in the hope of seeing an Apache 700 but unfortunately there was nothing that we could afford (around £56000 new I believe) but the salesman showed us a 16 month old Elddis Autoquest 180 which had virtually the same layout and it had only done 5240 miles. Up until this point Val had been less enthusiastic than me as she was unsure whether we should actually buy a motorhome but as soon a she stepped aboard that was it. "This is it!" she said "this is the one". Unfortunately I had no choice, a little hen pecked so I just had to buy it! Not as good looking as the Apache but we saved around £17000 and we have the six seat belts and six beds that our sons will need for their families excursions. I was going to tell you how I came to grips with charging .... battery charging! I previously knew nothing about batteries but soon realised how important it is to keep them fully charged and just wanted to recommend a fabulous piece of kit to keep them in tip top condition, especially throughout the winter. I have purchased a Ctek 5 intelligent charger, not cheap at £58 but, a great bit of kit which will even recondition your battery and I have found it useful for fully charging (12.7v) my leisure battery and cab battery and I have even recond my Audi battery. Those that don't have one ..... Google it, I think you might find it useful, I certainly hope so. Anyhow I hope to speak to you all again when I have something useful to say. Bye for now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Welcome to the forum and hope you get lots of pleasure out of your new purchase. Yes, the CTEK MXS 5.0 is an excellent bit of kit. I use it for the car and motor scooter. For the Motorhome, I use the onboard charger to keep the leisure and engine batteries topped up. You may have an onboard charger in your van, so it might be worth checking. It's a bit more convenient, I find, than messing about with a separate charger. Mind you, an occasional boost with the CTEK would keep the batteries in tip top condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 John, I strongly urge you to take your van to the nearest weighbridge and weigh it empty (i.e. driverless), taking the weight on each axle as well. Then, deduct the total weight figure from 3,500kg, to arrive at the gross remaining payload. This is a large 6 berth van on a 3.5 tonne chassis, with a somewhat limited rear axle load limit. You will have noted that Elddis recommend travelling with the water tanks empty, and that there is a 13 litre hot water heater plus a 90 litre fresh water tank: 103 litres (103kg) in total. Your maximum user payload is 515kg before any options/extras are added in. Elddis do not state that I can find, whether the maximum user payload, as they declare it, includes an allowance for the driver - usually 75kg. They do state that it includes 20 kg for two 7 kg gas cylinders. It is unclear what these cylinders are, but a so-called 7kg cylinder refers to the weight of the gas only. A "normal" steel cylinder itself weighs in the region of 8kg. Thus one full 7kg cylinder will tip the scales at about 15kg, which means that even with one completely empty cylinder alongside, the weight of two cylinders would be 23kg, and with such small cylinders in a 6 berth van it is inevitable that two full cylinders will at some time be carried, most likely at the beginning of a trip. So, total gas load potentially 30kg, unless very lightweight cylinders are used. This nit-picking is because if the combined cylinders do, actually, weigh more than 20kg, the difference has to be deducted from your already slender (relative to number of berths) 515kg payload. I hope Brownhills explained that the payload not only has to accommodate the weight of your clothing, kit, food and consumables, but also the weight of all occupants except, possibly (as above), the driver. So, too, will the weight of any extras/options already fitted to your van: for example, an awning. What I am saying is that relative to the number of berths, which you appear to expect to fill at times, that 515kg payload is very slender indeed. Hence my suggestion that you weigh the van. So, my second suggestion is to weigh yourselves (including you! :-)) and those members of your family who may accompany you, total these weights, and deduct the result from the gross remaining payload as above. You will then know how much payload remains for your gas, clothes, food, drinks, toys, etc. etc. - in short everything else you may carry. I hope you will be pleasantly surprised, but I rather suspect the result may cause you to draw breath when trying to accommodate six people for anything much longer than a summer week. My hunch is that overload looms, especially for the rear axle, but I do hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlandish Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Thanks for the welcome Robbo, great to be part of the fraternity. As you say I do have an onboard charger but the battery had got really low so the ctek seems like a good idea to put in my toolbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlandish Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Really helpful Brian and good advice. I do intend to get the whole rig weighed ASAP but in my case I do have a little more wiggle room as this 2014 model is a 3650 chassis which gives me a payload of 630Kg, slightly more than the 3500 chassis but hey ...... still sound advice and thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Outlandish - 2015-11-18 3:06 PM Really helpful Brian and good advice. I do intend to get the whole rig weighed ASAP but in my case I do have a little more wiggle room as this 2014 model is a 3650 chassis which gives me a payload of 630Kg, slightly more than the 3500 chassis but hey ...... still sound advice and thanks for that. That's good, and is heading in the right direction. Depending on how you use the van it could be OK, but do you know the rear axle load limit for your van? Oddly, when I tried to pull up Elddis's catalogues for 2014 I could only get the price list whichever option I selected, so had to settle for the 2015 version of the catalogue, in which I could not find any mention of payload. I couldn't see any mention of a 3,650 kg MAM, but didn't look exhaustively as the base vehicle is now different (no longer X250). The other weighbridge trip, of course, has to be with everything and everyone aboard to check the overall weight and the axles individually for overload. I would be inclined to do this as soon as possible, as payloads disappear like summer snow once you start loading. If it won't work, you need to know as soon as possible, in case you want/need to challenge Brownhills for not giving relevant advice when buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Outlandish - 2015-11-18 3:06 PM as this 2014 model is a 3650 chassis... Outlandish, When did your sons pass their driving tests? If it was after January 1997 then unless they have passed a separate 'C1' driving test they will not be able to drive your new MH! You must have Category C1 on your driving licence to be able to drive any vehicle over 3,500 kg MTPLM (or GVW if you prefer). Sorry if you already knew but... Keith. PS That is assuming you are actually going to let your sons drive it :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlandish Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Thanks Keith, fortunately l'm an old codger so my sons are OK with the C1 bit. More relevant is the fact that I will be 70 in 2017 and I have a problem because I am planning a three month cruise around Europe in the same year. At the moment I don't know how many weeks or months before my birthday I can apply for my new licence, I don't suppose you know do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlandish Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Thanks Keith, fortunately l'm an old codger so my sons are OK with the C1 bit. More relevant is the fact that I will be 70 in 2017 and I have a problem because I am planning a three month cruise around Europe in the same year. At the moment I don't know how many weeks or months before my birthday I can apply for my new licence, I don't suppose you know do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlandish Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Thanks again Brian, yesI will make sure to check everything out and get it weighed. Regarding challenging Brownhills that just isn't my style I always accept responsibility for my own actions even if they prove to be wrong, but thanks anyway I know you have my best interests at heart. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Outlandish - 2015-11-18 2:59 PM Thanks for the welcome Robbo, great to be part of the fraternity. As you say I do have an onboard charger but the battery had got really low so the ctek seems like a good idea to put in my toolbox. There is some doubt whether the electrical system Elddis has used in its recent motorhomes allows the on-board battery-charger to charge the vehicle’s starter-battery. This issue has come up several times in the past (examples here) http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Elddis-battery-charging/38573/ http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Elddis-Accordo-2014/37349/ The output of your motorhome’s on-board charger will be significantly higher than the 5 amps maximum of your CTEK charger, so it would make sense to use the former for leisure-battery charging (which is what it’s intended for of course). As the relevant Elddis handbook is coy about whether or not your motorhome’s starter-battery can be charged via the on-board-charger, the most reliable way of confirming if such charging is possible would be to test the starter-battery’s voltage (using an accurate voltmeter) before the motorhome has been connected to a 230V power supply, and then with the motorhome connected to a 230V power supply and with the battery-charger turned on. If no change in the voltage is detected, then the starter-battery is not receiving charge. (You might also ask Brownhills and/or Elddis about this, but testing is more conclusive.) If your Autoquest’s electrical system does not permit the on-board battery-charger to charge the starter-battery, it should be practicable to sidestep that limitation fairly straightforwardly without resorting to using a separate charger. If you do intend to use your CTEK charger to charge the starter-battery, some care would be advisable. It’s likely that your Peugeot Boxer handbook will recommend that the starter-battery be disconnected prior to using a battery-charger to charge it. If you don’t do this (and disconnecting can cause things like a radio security code to be lost) then I suggest you don’t use the CTEK charger’s “Recond” program as this outputs a high voltage (15.8V) that MIGHT affect the vehicle’s electronics adversely. If you use your CTEK charger to charge the motorhome’s leisure-battery without first disconnecting that battery, I suggest you make sure that the motorhome is not on 230V hook-up at the time and that you don’t start the vehicle’s motor. I can’t say that using the CTEK charger, simultaneously having the on-board charger operating and/or starting the motor would definitely cause harm, but having just a single charging system operating should avoid the potential risk. (I also have a CTEK MXS 5.0 charger and I’m comfortable using it to charge my Rapido motorhome’s starter-battery or leisure-battery in situ without disconnecting the battery - but I’m pretty damn careful when doing this to not have the motorhome on 230V hook-up and to have disconnected the CTEK charger before starting the motor.) Regarding your query about driving-licence renewal at age-70, these links refer https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence-at-70 http://www.ageuk.org.uk/travel-lifestyle/people/driving/renewing-your-licence-online/ It would appear that you can currently apply for the replacement licence 90 days before your 70th birthday but not earlier. (No guarantee that this will still be the case in 2017 though!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Join the Caravan Club - they know how to charge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlandish Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Well Derek I really appreciate all the trouble you have gone to to supply this information .... all of it really useful and I will take care to follow the charging advice. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 The only comment that I would add to Derek's reply is "Leave the leisure battery charging for a while, before testing if there is any change iin the voltage of the vehicle battery" Our Rapido charges the leisure battery, once the predetermined voltage is reached, the vehicle battery is charged. Some times it takes a while for the charge to show. I have a couple of Cteck traffic light connectors permanently connected so I can see the state of charge. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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