Traumatic C 6002 problems

[bolero boy]

if the water gets heated when 60/40 is selected (as it sometimes does) this suggests that the gas boiler 'works'.....

if, when selecting 'heat' and nothing ever seems to happen with regard to the boiler firing up, could this simply be that the room thermostat is fauly, ie never sends a signal requesting 'heat'.

the water thermostat must be inside the unit whereas the room thermostat is external as in Derek's picture.

other than the comment Derek highlighted about the click heard when rotating the thermostat, we have no indication of any evidence it is working or not.

it may even be that, the room thermostat is working, hence the click, yet the signal is not being sent to the boiler.

[Silicongyro]

Just a small further point to add to Derek's comprehensive "how it works" posting.

 

Many years ago I reverse engineered the control panel ( so that I could add remote switching - from the bed !) and so can say that the only difference in the 40deg and 60deg switch settings is that the panel changes the resistance between two connectors - for both hot water alone and full heating. The main heater does not receive any change in switched connections for 40 and 60 settings, just the resistance change - just as the room temperature sensor is just a device changing its resistance.

 

For those interested I have appended my reverse engineered circuit diagram for the control panel.

Trumatic control panel.pdf

[Keithl]

bolero boy - 2015-12-02 3:16 PM

 

.....if, when selecting 'heat' and nothing ever seems to happen with regard to the boiler firing up, could this simply be that the room thermostat is faulty,

 

Have I read somewhere that you can test the room thermostat by shorting the 2 connections together? IIRC this should then signal the boiler to fire up.

 

May be worth searching the forum to see if this is true...

 

Keith.

[ken the kontiki]

FWIW, on our 2008 C6002EH, albeit the EHU version, disconnecting the room temp sensor makes the heating run continuous and the 1-9 dial has no effect on the heating switching on and off - it's always on.

[Derek Uzzell]

Keithl - 2015-12-02 5:42 PM

 

bolero boy - 2015-12-02 3:16 PM

 

.....if, when selecting 'heat' and nothing ever seems to happen with regard to the boiler firing up, could this simply be that the room thermostat is faulty,

 

Have I read somewhere that you can test the room thermostat by shorting the 2 connections together? IIRC this should then signal the boiler to fire up.

 

May be worth searching the forum to see if this is true...

 

Keith.

 

‘Shorting’ the room-temperature sensor was mentioned by Joe90 in his 10 October 2014 11:07 AM posting here

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Truma-6002-EH-230v-Elec-problem/21422/

 

A word of warning - a degree of care should be taken when removing the sensor as, if the motorhome manufacturer has installed the sensor with no spare length of wiring-loom cable behind it and the loom’s cable pulls off the sensor when it’s being removed and drops down, it may prove tricky to fish the cable back out.

 

[Keithl]

Keithl - 2015-12-02 5:42 PM

 

bolero boy - 2015-12-02 3:16 PM

 

.....if, when selecting 'heat' and nothing ever seems to happen with regard to the boiler firing up, could this simply be that the room thermostat is faulty,

 

Have I read somewhere that you can test the room thermostat by shorting the 2 connections together? IIRC this should then signal the boiler to fire up.

 

May be worth searching the forum to see if this is true...

 

Keith.

 

Found it!

 

Quote " As for the “button” room sensor you can rule that out as part of the problem by merely taking it out and connecting the two wires that go to it, any problem with them seems to be just going open circuit, I believe there is another temp sensor behind and incorporated into the rotary control switch which I believe you are aware of. "

 

From fifth post in this thread... http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Truma-c6002-heater/36982/

 

It might be worth dropping Joe90 a PM in the hope he answers as he hasn't logged on to the forum since August.

 

Keith.

 

Edit to add. How does Derek always beat me to it (?)

[Derek Uzzell]

‘Joe90’ was banned from this forum last August, so PM-ing him is unlikely to work.

 

In his posting of 30 November 2015 5:35 PM Harry said that his Truma heater had operated as one might expect when its control-switch was turned to the 60°C water-heating position. Then, in his 1 December 2015 7:53 PM posting the following day he said that this no longer happened.

 

Water heating is the simplest of this type of heater’s functions and that’s what should be experimented with first. If there’s a problem with the water heating function, there’s every chance that blown-air heating will also be affected.

 

I hesitate to preach, but twiddling a problem-afflicted Truma C-Series heater’s control-switches haphazardly in the hope you’ll get lucky is not the best way forward - you need to be methodical.

 

Begin with water heating to a temperature of 40°C.

 

Move the outer ring of the control-switch one position anti-clockwise from the “O” position. The control-switch should now show a green light (normal operation) and an orange light (water heating in progress). Does this happen?

 

The heater’s start-up procedure should now commence, with the heater’s gas-burner fan beginning to run, its gas-valve opening and its igniter firing. Unless the heater is ‘buried’ in, say, the back of a kitchen cupboard, it should be possible to hear the fan running, the valve opening and/or the igniter firing. Is there any audible indication that the heater is going through the start-up procedure?

 

If the start-up procedure completes correctly the green and orange lights on the control-switch should remain lit. The heater’s gas-burner should now be operating at its 2kW setting and water in the heater should begin to warm up.

 

If anything goes wrong during the start-up procedure, the heater should go into failure mode and shut down and a red light should illuminate on the control-switch.

 

So does the start-up procedure appear to have completed correctly?

 

Heating cold water to 40°C is likely to take about a half hour, but the heater itself will have warmed up well before then. Within (say) 10 minutes of the water-heating phase commencing, putting one’s hand on the heater should show whether or not the heater is actually heating. This is a simple check to make if the heater is accessible.

 

If the green and orange lights on Harry’s heater’s control-switch stay lit and the switch’s red ‘failure’ light does not come on when 40°C water-heating is supposedly being carried out, but the heater does not warm up and the water does not get hot, there’s clearly something wrong.

 

There’s little point worrying about blown-air heating until water-heating can be performed reliably. If Harry’s C-6002 were able to heat water satisfactorily but blown-air heating wasn’t working properly, the room-temperature sensor might be the culprit. But if water cannot be heated, it should not matter whether the room-temperature sensor is duff or not, as the sensor is not involved in the basic water-heating process.

 

 

[Harry666]

Hi

 

I took out the sensor and switched on the heater control to the bottom setting, The fan came on softly but nothing else, I disconnected the sensor and shorted out the cables but all it did was switch the fan off.

 

So thanks for the suggestion but it did nothing in this case. I have stripped down all the door panels for easy access and it will be with the Truma mender chappies next Tuesday.

 

thanks

Harry

[Harry666]

Also, turning the control clockwise to its first 40 degree position. The green and orange lights come on, but no heating takes place, I left it on this position for about an hour but no hot air and no hot water, and no warm air from the air vent. I cannot hear any initiation procedure. the only thing that happens is that the fan comes on softly.

 

I have tried the settings in all combinations for about an hour each, during all this time the green and orange lights remained illuminated but nothing els happened except that the fan comes on softly. Only once on the top 60 degree setting did the water get hot, but I have not been able to replicate this incident. I still have not seen a red light to show a system failure on any of the settings.

 

So off to the menders on Tuesday.

Thanks for all the advice.

Harry

[Derek Uzzell]

When the heater’s control-switch is turned anti-clockwise to the 40°C or 60°C water-heating-only position there should be no warmed air emerging from the various blown-air outlets in the motorhome’s living area. But the heater should warm up, the water should get hot and it should be evident that some warm air (or steam in cold weather) is coming out of the heater’s external ‘flue’.

 

When the outer ring of the control-switch is moved from the “O” position to any of the other positions the gas-burner fan would normally come on to ‘purge’ the heater’s burner-chamber as a safety measure prior to gas being let into the heater and the igniter firing. I think what you are hearing is the gas-burner fan running quietly (which it does when ‘purging’ ) but the heater is not going beyond the purge stage.

 

I believe you’ve done everything you can reasonably do and, as your heater still won’t cooperate, your next-Tuesday visit seems unavoidable unless you can find someone (eg. another motorcaravanner) familiar with a Trumatic C-Series heater to have a look at it.

 

Please let us know how you get on at the menders.

[Harry666]

Hello Everyone.

 

Just an update on the heating problems.

 

I took the van to the Truma menders and they tested everything, The main computer control panel had gone and so had the computer control panel on the blower. Total cost 720 euros which the chap who sold me the van will be paying.

 

The heating now functions perfectly and we had New Years at a very nice campsite in the Bois de Bologne in Paris.

 

The best place to see in the New Year was the Arc du Triomphe. But there were no fireworks, just an image projected onto the Arch accompanied by music. It was a bit of a huge anti climax. Anyway after midnight thousands of people wanted to go home. We had to go to the other side of the arch for the bus except they had put barriers up with hundreds of riot police in full riot uniform behind the barriers which kind of upset huge amounts of people. So instead of giving any kind of indication of how to disperse they let tear gas off which panicked those in front who rushed backwards to crush those behind. It was quite scary. we took refuge in a shop doorway and waited for ages til the crowds started dispersing. I asked a riot policeman how to get out and he just stared at me. Eventually we found our way through the backstreets and right around the arch. Never again will I spend New Years in Paris. They have gone security mad.

 

But at least the Van was nice and warm when we got back

:-D :-D :-D

[Brian Kirby]

Seems you possibly weren't keeping abreast of the news. There were widely reported terrorist threats against new year celebrations picked up for both Paris and Berlin, that caused the authorities to curtail the celebrations in both cities. Berlin reacted more strongly than Paris, and basically cancelled to lot and sent everyone home.

 

Paris suffered two terrorist attacks in 2015, both of which resulted in multiple casualties, so reaction to a credible threat was inevitable, and will continue to be so where threats against large public gatherings are concerned.

 

Had they ignored the warnings, gone ahead, and the crowd been attacked by suicide bombers and with automatic weapons, there would have been absolute carnage. Imagine what you might have been saying then - had you survived. They have a very difficult balance to achieve while trying to allow normal life to proceed at the same time as maintaining reasonable public safety.

[Noody]

I don't intend to make any comments about murderers other than the sorrow I feel.

 

I've been reading as much as possible about Truma problems because my van is 04 and my C6002 has performed faultlessly, then it happened. The amount of work i've done on this van means that each new fault makes me more determined to repair each fault rather than "Get-rid" and let someone else handle the problems.

 

I love this van and wouldn't attempt to sell it until all repairs are complete though I'm now wondering if that ever happens.

 

Before the Truma boiler stopped working I thought I had 'bottomed it' with just the well documented Fiat intermittent starter problem to deal with. So intermittent that I couldn't just give the job to the garage so I carry a new starter because I figure if it becomes an emergency the starter on my van can be replaced by jacking up the front.

 

Back to the Truma though, ask me what happened ?

 

As Derek suggests it's good to know the sounds your boiler makes so because the C6002 initially fires on all settings when the main burner kicks in the relays start clicking and I can hear the ignited flames lifting-off (I call it hunting) then the red light comes on.

 

I tested the regulator by lighting all three rings on the hob and I have plenty of propane delivered by a complete Gaslow setup.

 

Ok, it needs a Truma trained bloke to deal with it but getting one to even return my call is proving difficult here in North Pembrokeshire. So far my best option is to wait for an appointment made for May 11th with a local engineer who operates mobile.

 

Some effort by Burster to make access easy doesn't impress me though there is access there isn't enough to remove the boiler and as you know I have lots of experience with the vans furniture being put together with zero consideration to sensible access.

 

The only help from you-all I can hope for is from another Bursner Elegance owner, or probably Derek who appears to know everything about most things. Do I need to take the side of the wardrobe with the shelves out ? I hope not, it wouldn't stretch my skills if it wasn't for pre-assembly screws in impossible places.

 

A very informative thread this, why not bring it back ?

[tonyishuk]

It is only a thought, but disconnecting the leisure battery and reconnecting it may reset the pcb board. Our Truma has had times when a full switch off, reset itself on the right path.

 

It may have been a coincidence but anything micro electronic seems to need the occasional reboot, if it gets its diodes in a twist.

 

Maybe worth a try.

 

Rgds

[Harry666]

Hello

 

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions but the problem is now sorted at a cost of 720 euros which I successfully claimed back from the chap who sold me the camper van and who assured me that everything was working perfectly, - even though he couldn't demonstrate the heating because there was no water and no gas. (there's a lesson there to anyone buying a van)

 

Anyway it turned out that the main computer control panel was dead and so was the smaller control panel in the fan housing. I watched the Truma engineer try various solutions and the only solution was to change both panels.

 

So now I have heating and hot water, and it is lovely to be able to set the temperature and leave it on all night (especially when I took it skiing in Andorra). So I am happy with my Ford/Rimor. What I would like to do is get the engine remapped, any suggestions anyone ?

 

Happy holidays

:-D