Battery size/type

[david lloyd]

Hello Brian, thank you for the reply.

 

I had not thought about using two smaller rated batteries but that does make sense unless I want to get involved in increasing the charging capacity - which I don't. The notion of using two 90ah batteries came from the fact that aandacaravans advised that these were the best option available for my application. During our winter break, where we used Aires much of the time on the journey down and back in fairly cold weather, I found that the present 100ah battery could get depleted quite quickly and put it down mainly to the D6 heater.

 

However, I will check out the Varta range to see if they do a smaller battery in the power frame range - another option may have been one larger battery but I am not sure what is the largest capacity a Fiat Ducato underseat area could accommodate.

 

David

[aandncaravan]

Brian, I agree with what you say in relation to any ordinary battery. It is spot on.

 

However, the Varta LFD/Bosch L5 range are not ordinary, they are more efficient than almost any other battery. Varta claim up to 70% better electrical conductivity. This efficiency drops very little during the batteries life, unlike most batteries which corrode internally as they age, placing a higher load on the charging systems. This efficiency means they charge up more quickly, so again the charging systems are operating a shorter time.

 

As a result the Varta LFD/Bosch L5 place a much lighter load on the charging systems, Alternator, Mains 240v and Solar, so you can get away with a larger battery bank.

However, you need to be aware that you are at the Motorhomes charging limits, so need to manage the load.

 

For example don't let the batteries run down below 12.3v (probably the lowest you should discharge them any way if you want to maximise life).

 

Also remember that many Motorhome power supplies charge the Starter battery as well as the Habitation area batteries.

If you ask the Charger to bring up a low Starter battery (100Ah) and two low habitation batteries of 180Ah (for example after waking the MH from its Winter slumber) that can be a combined load of a 280Ah on a 160Ah charger. That may well lead to issues?

 

The CBE 516 is a tough little charger, good ventilation is key for a good flow of cooling air if you know you are working it hard.

 

So we would say that 2 x Varta LFD90's would be fine on the CBE 516, so long as you understand what you are asking.

 

If you stay within the limits of the mains charger, it will act as a good guide to keeping within the limits of the Alternator.

 

I know we keep repeating ourselves, but in a Motorhome environment, this little Wet Acid battery is a major Milestone in the history of motorhomes. The technology is patented, so unique to these two ranges of batteries.

 

If they were £130 each they would still trounce the opposition.

 

 

And in reply to the email I got this week, our company is not A and N Varta!!

We don't sell batteries of any sort. (lol)

 

[david lloyd]

Thank you Allan for the technical reassurances. I would have taken Brian's advice and fitted two 75ah Varta batteries if the charger were unable to cope but having two 90ah batteries will give a little more leeway especially as this last winter trip has proved that the need for more 12v capacity is increased as we travel through France and Spain, usually in quite dull weather for the solar panel to be effective and have to use the Truma D6 diesel heater more often on Aires.

 

That just leaves me with two final queries. I know I have mentioned before that Tayna are offering the LFD 90 at a little under £80 but you mention above the price of £130 being reasonable - how will I know that the batteries offered by Tayna are in fact the new Powerframe type? Is it just a question of asking them outright or are there particular identifying marks/codes?

 

Finally, someone earlier said they had managed to shoehorn two 90 ah batteries under the Ducato seat. I know that the LFD90 batteries are the same dimensions as the existing Banner battery (L353xW175xH190) can anyone confirm these would fit beneath the seat?

 

Thank you again

David

[Derek Uzzell]

David

 

It’s perhaps worth observing that Rapido has (for some years) standardised on a CBE-made modular electrical system (similar to your Chausson’s) that includes the CB516 battery-charger.

 

Most of those Rapido motorhome models were/are offered with a single Banner “Energy Bull” 100Ah battery as standard with the option to have a 2nd leisure-battery. Historically, this option has comprised an ‘under-tray’ and a set of linking cables (about £120), but it’s possible that an actual battery is now included!

 

Anyway, the significant thing is that Rapido seemingly has no qualms about providing the 2nd-battery option and leaving the CB516 charger unchanged, and the second battery that would be fitted when that option was specified would undoubtedly be another Banner 100Ah “Energy Bull”.

 

As lots of Rapidos will have 200Ah-worth of Banner batteries being charged by a CB516 charger, and there doesn’t appear to be general howls of rage from Rapido owners about the charger being inadequate or incinerating itself, you should have absolutely no problems with a pair of Varta LFD90s/Bosch L5s provided that you follow Allan’s advice.

 

 

[Robbo]

I recently purchased two Varta LFD90 batteries from Tanya. They are named as Professional Dual Purpose with a European Type No. 930 090 080. Varta seem to have dispensed with naming them as Silver Dynamic/Power frame but understand they still contain this same technology.

 

They arrived with a voltage of 12.45 volt - I would have expected higher. I can't see any markings indicating date of manufacture. I purchased the vent tubes at the same time. I'm a bit disappointed with the lifting arrangement - just a couple of handholds on the top. My previous batteries had plastic loops which retracted into the top of the battery casing making them much easier to manhandle.

 

If the OP's original Banner batteries are the same size, I can't see any problem installing the Varta in the same space. I assume the OP's Banner batteries are currently equipped with vent tubes. However, I understand the Banner vent plug is an odd size so best to purchase new ones. The vent tube supplied by Tanya is 240mm long and comes with a right angle connector to plug into the side of the battery. As normal, there is a vent tube oulet at both ends of the battery, so just use the most convenient one.

 

[Robinhood]

david lloyd - 2016-03-09 9:17 AM

 

Finally, someone earlier said they had managed to shoehorn two 90 ah batteries under the Ducato seat. I know that the LFD90 batteries are the same dimensions as the existing Banner battery (L353xW175xH190) can anyone confirm these would fit beneath the seat?

 

Thank you again

David

 

The two Varta LA95s that I have under my X290 passenger seat have exactly the same quoted dimensions.

 

They are tight, but they do fit.

[Brian Kirby]

aandncaravan - 2016-03-08 8:56 PM

 

Brian, I agree with what you say in relation to any ordinary battery. It is spot on.

 

However, the Varta LFD/Bosch L5 range are not ordinary, they are more efficient than almost any other battery. Varta claim up to 70% better electrical conductivity. This efficiency drops very little during the batteries life, unlike most batteries which corrode internally as they age, placing a higher load on the charging systems. This efficiency means they charge up more quickly, so again the charging systems are operating a shorter time.

............................................

I'd just prefer to wait until these batteries have had a few years of use in motorhomes, and we can see whether the manufacturer's claims are borne out - more particularly over time. I seem to remember a number of "superior" batteries from previous years, that turned out not to be quite so good in real world conditions as was initially claimed. It's just the Luddite in my soul! :-D

 

I'm not saying they won't - I don't have sufficient knowledge of battery chemistry or physics to argue on technical grounds. Besides, they seem a perfectly good buy on price, even if they only perform as well as a "plain vanilla" flooded battery.

 

Regarding whether or not the CBE charger is up to the job of charging 180Ah of them, again time will tell. With great respect to Derek and Rapido, I'm not wholly convinced that Rapido should be relied upon to have properly matched the charger capacity to the size of battery bank. I can't fault Derek's logic: that there haven't been strings of posts complaining of prematurely failed chargers or batteries. However, if the cautious approach is taken, and the "tried and tested" maxim of charging at minimum 10% of installed battery capacity is adopted, the risk of either failing should be "normal". Charging below that rate, even where manufacturers claim special characteristics for the battery, adds unknowns to the mix. If people are happy to accept this, I salute them. If it were me, for the time being, I'd seek to skew the odds back in my favour, and rely on the superior claims for the batteries as merely an added comfort factor.

 

My reservations are influenced by the recent revelation that Hymer, who have also been manufacturing caravans and motorhomes for a good few years, began installing Banner AGM batteries in lieu of Exide gel batteries, but set the Schaudt chargers (which had no AGM setting) to charge them as gel. It now seems this was inappropriate, and the gel setting was not the correct charging regime for AGM, and that consequently a number of the Banner batteries have failed prematurely.

 

This is not to reason that Rapido are getting it wrong: just that long experience is not necessarily a guide to safe hands in a world of changing technology. But, as I said above, that's just the Luddite in my soul!

[david lloyd]

Robbo - 2016-03-09 11:29 AM

 

I recently purchased two Varta LFD90 batteries from Tanya. They are named as Professional Dual Purpose with a European Type No. 930 090 080. Varta seem to have dispensed with naming them as Silver Dynamic/Power frame but understand they still contain this same technology.

 

They arrived with a voltage of 12.45 volt - I would have expected higher. I can't see any markings indicating date of manufacture. I purchased the vent tubes at the same time. I'm a bit disappointed with the lifting arrangement - just a couple of handholds on the top. My previous batteries had plastic loops which retracted into the top of the battery casing making them much easier to manhandle.

 

If the OP's original Banner batteries are the same size, I can't see any problem installing the Varta in the same space. I assume the OP's Banner batteries are currently equipped with vent tubes. However, I understand the Banner vent plug is an odd size so best to purchase new ones. The vent tube supplied by Tanya is 240mm long and comes with a right angle connector to plug into the side of the battery. As normal, there is a vent tube oulet at both ends of the battery, so just use the most convenient one.

 

Hi Robbo, thanks for the information.

 

Just to recap, at present the Chausson has only one 100ah Banner battery fitted under the (UK) passenger seat so I am only guessing at this stage that two of a similar size will fit. Chausson do provide a vent tube through the chassis but this is located beneath the drivers seat (continental passenger side) and advise that the battery should be fitted here. However, the original supplying dealer (who I did not buy it from) have installed the Banner battery on the UK passenger side and have not fitted a vent tube.

 

Hence my decision to replace with the Varta type after receiving good advice on their technology and the fact that they are zero maintenance so eminently more suited to being installed in the habitation area. Although they may not require venting, hopefully, I can have them both fitted where they should be (under the (UK) drivers seat) and, as there is a vent tube present, have them vented as a precaution.

 

David

[david lloyd]

Robinhood - 2016-03-09 11:53 AM

 

david lloyd - 2016-03-09 9:17 AM

 

Finally, someone earlier said they had managed to shoehorn two 90 ah batteries under the Ducato seat. I know that the LFD90 batteries are the same dimensions as the existing Banner battery (L353xW175xH190) can anyone confirm these would fit beneath the seat?

 

Thank you again

David

 

The two Varta LA95s that I have under my X290 passenger seat have exactly the same quoted dimensions.

 

They are tight, but they do fit.

 

Thanks, Robinhood, my Chausson is on the X290 so fitting two of this size should be ok.

 

David

 

[Robinhood]

...not quite sure why I wrote passenger seat, David - harking back to the previous 'van, I think.

 

Mine are both under the driver's seat in this one.

 

*-)

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2016-03-09 1:03 PM

 

...My reservations are influenced by the recent revelation that Hymer, who have also been manufacturing caravans and motorhomes for a good few years, began installing Banner AGM batteries in lieu of Exide gel batteries, but set the Schaudt chargers (which had no AGM setting) to charge them as gel. It now seems this was inappropriate, and the gel setting was not the correct charging regime for AGM, and that consequently a number of the Banner batteries have failed prematurely...

 

This is gone into in some depth on the aandncaravanservices website.

 

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/agm-batteries.php

 

It may be remembered that I replaced my Hobby motorhome’s Exide gel leisure-battery with a Banner “Power Bull” AGM battery. There seemed to be doubt on-line about whether an AGM battery in a motorhome was better charged via a ‘wet-acid’ regimen or a ‘gel’ one. Banner’s website advised the latter but, when I discussed this with Banner representatives, I never got a straight answer. Eventually I decided to use the wet-acid regimen.

 

Plainly, when no battery-charger with a specific AGM regimen was available for motorhomes but an AGM leisure-battery had been fitted, the motorhome manufacturer would need to make the same choice that I made. Hymer chose to follow Banner’s advice and specified that the gel regimen be used.

 

It’s worth noting that, on their Mercedes-based ML-T motorhomes, Hymer have fitted as standard a 95Ah Varta “Professional Dual Purpose AGM LA95” battery. As far as I’m aware this battery was being fitted well before Schaudt equipment tailored for AGM-battery charging began to be marketed, so I presume the Varta battery would also be charged using a gel regimen and be potentially vulnerable to the same sort of problems that are said to have afflicted the Banner AGM batteries Hymer has fitted in the past.

[aandncaravan]

Hello Brian, I understand 100% your reservations about new technologies, like Powerframe/Silver batteries, but remember we have been telling the World about Powerframe Silver batteries since October 2012.

 

Only had one report of unsatisfactory operation and they were being used to power a 3,000 watt Inverter on just two 100Ah batteries. That is going to shorten the life of any such battery bank, even Industrial strength batteries of twice that size.

 

I would turn your argument around and say lets be cautious about unproven AGM technology when used in a Motorhome?

 

The thing about AGM batteries is that every battery manufacturer going, from Exide to Yuasa, says don't charge an AGM battery on any setting except AGM. Banner are the exception, who say it is a compromise.

 

I think the decisions by Hymer to fit AGM batteries on a none optimised charger were Marketing based, not on a thorough technical assessment.

I think when the shortcomings were highlighted on the German Forums, Hymer put pressure on Schaudt to come up with a solution to match the Hymer Business plan.

 

Hence the recent introduction of Motorhome optimised chargers, I think 10 so far this year including the AGM Solar Regulator?. There is even a new AGM version of the old EBL99 called the EBL119.

 

If AGM batteries are so great on a Gel setting, why bother with the huge cost of developing so many AGM specific chargers?

 

Now that we have AGM chargers rolling out from Hymer, hopefully they will also fit an AGM battery under the bonnet, as the versions we have seen so far, are charging the Wet acid Starter battery at an over high AGM 14.7v.

 

Maybe next year Hymer will get around to sorting out an AGM optimised Alternator?

 

Then AGM might come into it's own?

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-03-09 2:26 PM.............................Plainly, when no battery-charger with a specific AGM regimen was available for motorhomes but an AGM leisure-battery had been fitted, the motorhome manufacturer would need to make the same choice that I made. Hymer chose to follow Banner’s advice and specified that the gel regimen be used.

 

It’s worth noting that, on their Mercedes-based ML-T motorhomes, Hymer have fitted as standard a 95Ah Varta “Professional Dual Purpose AGM LA95” battery. As far as I’m aware this battery was being fitted well before Schaudt equipment tailored for AGM-battery charging began to be marketed, so I presume the Varta battery would also be charged using a gel regimen and be potentially vulnerable to the same sort of problems that are said to have afflicted the Banner AGM batteries Hymer has fitted in the past.

It is, nevertheless, somewhat disappointing that Hymer, Schaudt, and Banner, with their combined resources, end up in the same position as a member of the public when selecting batteries and how best to charge them.

 

aandncaravan - 2016-03-09 3:31 PM.............................I would turn your argument around and say lets be cautious about unproven AGM technology when used in a Motorhome?

 

The thing about AGM batteries is that every battery manufacturer going, from Exide to Yuasa, says don't charge an AGM battery on any setting except AGM. Banner are the exception, who say it is a compromise.

 

I think the decisions by Hymer to fit AGM batteries on a none optimised charger were Marketing based, not on a thorough technical assessment. ....................................

With hindsight, I agree. I assume Banner made Hymer a financial offer they couldn't refuse. What I have read about AGM batteries suggests to me that they were developed in response to stop - start cars (where the engine cuts out after a few seconds idling and re-starts on drive away) and that the appropriate charging systems are installed in such vehicles. So, they were the answer to a different problem from that posed by leisure vehicles, but were nevertheless adopted for leisure vehicle use. My conclusion, pro tem. is best avoided.

 

Our van, now almost three years old, has one (Banner Running Bull AGM 595 01, 12V 95Ah.) It has only been used in anger a few times since new, usually being on hook-up, either at home or on campsites.

 

Reading of other's experiences, and wanting to know if it had been damaged, I decided to test it last Saturday. I connected a 60W headlamp bulb across the terminals to give a 5A load, which was as close to C20 as I could get. 95Ah @ C20 = 19 hours, so I aimed at 9.5 hours for 50% DOD. I checked the voltage hourly during the test with a multi-meter, and in the event had the battery on load for 9 hrs 40 minutes. Commencing voltage, after resting and removal of surface charge, was 12.91V. Final voltage was 12.09, rising to 12.28 after 5 minutes rest, so almost exactly 50% DOD. I suspect that was the deepest discharge the battery had ever experienced!

 

However, I thought it interesting that, despite having been in the care of a Schaudt Elektroblock EBL 99 all its life, it seemed in excellent condition.

 

I just wonder, therefore, if this battery/charger combination is fine, unless the battery is subjected to repeated deep discharges - such as I believe Lenny did with his pair that failed in much less that three years.

 

As I understand the EBL 99's gel charging cycle, it is slightly too low for AGM at the bulk charging stage, but also slightly too high at the maintenance charge stage. Why this should make so dramatic a difference to the life of the battery I know not, nor whether I just happen to be lucky. However, I'm not much given to believing in luck in these kinds of cases, so am inclined to think it is due to the low stress to which our battery has been subjected.

 

Nevertheless, I'm still puzzled that after three years of over-enthusiastic maintenance charging, it hasn't apparently suffered any damage. Can anyone answer that?

[aandncaravan]

Had the battery rested a couple of weeks, or was this straight 'from charging' as the start voltage does seem to be better than most we see?

 

It does seem like you do have a good battery.

 

Maybe the key to these AGM batteries is prolonged maintenance charging on EHU?

On the web pages we publish a letter from someone who found their AGM batteries took 'forever' to charge up on Alternator/Solar but got up to full charge on EHU.

 

They wrote, "It was practically impossible to fully charge the batteries when moving around and/or with Solar Power they would take too long to charge fully". However, he goes on to say "They were charged pretty much full when on EHU for 1-2 months".

 

Supposing they don't fully charge on Alternator, for whatever reason, so Sulphate and degrade, but long time 'trickle' charging on EHU does get them up to full charge, so they don't Sulphate?

Just wild theory, I really don't have any idea.

 

Maybe the key to these AGM batteries is shallow discharge and lots of EHU maintenance? More user experience like yours is what we need. An AGM battery does not automatically gain the ability to deep discharge. Just like a wet acid battery, it has to be built into the design. Maybe the batteries so far have been a bit light weight in terms of durability when used in anger in a Motorhome, just as some Wet batteries wilt? Maybe they don't like the 14.4v maintenance charge from an Alternator on a long drive, but happier with long term, lower maintenance 13.8v of EHU?

 

I guess that is the point you were making about new technology, that there is still a lot to learn about these when used in Motorhomes?

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

The NCC Veified Leisure Battery Scheme

 

http://www.thencc.org.uk/our_schemes/ncc_verified_leisure_battery_scheme.aspx

 

comprises three Categories - A, B and C.

 

Category A is for batteries with a higher storage capacity for people who frequently use their touring caravan or motorhome away from an electrical hook-up. Most of the batteries listed in Category A are AGM type and two of them are Banner-made.

 

Category B batteries are aimed at users who frequently use sites with hook-up facilities, but require a greater battery capacity to operate devices such as motor movers. Within this Category are batteries from the Bosch L5 and Banner “Energy Bull” ranges.

 

Category C batteries are for users that require a lower capacity battery to cover basic operation of their habitation equipment for short periods away from an electrical hook-up. There seems to be no great ‘logic’ involved in the selection as, although these batteries’ number of life cycles at 50% DoD is generally below that of batteries in Categories A and B, there are some notable exceptions.

[aandncaravan]

The NCC publish this chart but not any of the test results. They don't even publish the details of the company doing the testing.

 

The sole focus of the scheme seems to be all about discharge cycles, they don't cover efficiency, life time, warranty, value, durability, etc. Fundamental is something like water loss, which has shown to be a significant factor for some and important for others, yet doesn't get a mention?

What about how fast each battery charges up? Isn't that a subject that crops up over and again on every Forum going?

Wouldn't everyone like to know what the fastest charging battery is?

What about age? Is the top rated battery still the top performer after 3 years or would a 3 year retest put it at the bottom?

 

But even within the Cyclic test, the 'testing' does not show how one battery copes dropping down to 80% DOD versus another. Or what the life is if only taken to 30% DOD.

One battery could survive 1,000 cycles discharged to 12.6v but only 180 cycles when taken down to 12.1v.

In other words a motorhome user might get 2,000 cycles out of a Exide G80 that is only shallow discharged but only 900 cycles out of a Varta used in the same way. Yet the Varta might behave better than a G80 when discharged more deeply. We just don't know.

 

We have reservations about the reliability of the NCC table as well, for example, when a battery is constructed there are choices that have to be made on Capacity versus Durability.

Generally (very broad brush generalisation) the greater the durability that is required, the lower the capacity.

For example the very durable long life Exide G80 is an 80Ah battery at the physical size ( L-353mm, W-175mm, H-190mm) of most Motorhome battery boxes. The similar physical sized, 'fragile' Lion leisure battery is a 110Ah battery.

The Bosch S5 Starter battery that we heavily supported was only a 100Ah in the same physical package The tougher, Deep Cycle Varta LFD version is even less at 90Ah.

 

So if you are looking for a tough Cycling battery be cautious about batteries claiming 110Ah in this physical size, unless it has some very special technology inside.

Logic suggests that a 105Ah Banner Battery of fairly mundane construction is unlikely to achieve double the cyclic capability of a high technology LFD90Ah, regardless of what the spec sheet says.

 

These very forums suggest the banner doesn't have the durability claimed. So how come it's where it is in the table? Let the NCC Publish the test results and prove each battery deserves it's place?

 

Hopefully the NCC scheme will 'mature' to provide real guidance, but it needs to be a lot more open with published results. I would like to know what Motorhome charger was used and what voltage each battery in the test was charged at.

Were the AGM batteries charged up fully on a 'laboratory' AGM specific charger, or on a typical charger found in a Motorhome?

What were the charging times, did AGM have to be charged twice as long?

.

 

Without that openness, to me, it has no value whatever.

 

 

I would rather the NCC push battery manufacturers to have a Manufacture date on each battery that is clear and easily understood. Just like everything else we buy from a packet of biscuits to a Car.

The only reason it doesn't is so we don't know what we are buying, there is no other reason not to publish the date openly.

All of the excuses given so far are exactly the same as the Food industry used many years ago.

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

aandncaravan - 2016-03-10 4:35 PM................................In other words a motorhome user might get 2,000 cycles out of a Exide G80 . ...................................

Not if he bought from those listed he wouldn't, because the Exide ES 900/G80 isn't there! :-D

[aandncaravan]

The Exide G80, one of the best motorhome batteries of all time, not 'NCC verified'?

Well that is a surprise.

 

What's that? Not one Varta battery verified either?

 

Sorry, you say Halfords batteries ARE NCC verified? AND Lucas??

 

Well there you go, proof that we know nothing.

 

>:-)

[StuartO]

Brian Kirby - 2016-03-10 5:43 PM

aandncaravan - 2016-03-10 4:35 PM................................In other words a motorhome user might get 2,000 cycles out of a Exide G80 . ...................................

Not if he bought from those listed he wouldn't, because the Exide ES 900/G80 isn't there! :-D

 

I always worry that anything which any trade association publishes (or any organ which is dependent on advertising revenue publishes) is compromised and cannot be relied upon to be testing in any independent way.

 

[Brian Kirby]

aandncaravan - 2016-03-09 7:56 PM

Had the battery rested a couple of weeks, or was this straight 'from charging' as the start voltage does seem to be better than most we see?..........................

Neither, in fact, Allan. It was on charge until 10:30. The Voltage on charge was 13.9V, and after 5 minutes off charge 13.69V.

 

I then put a 3A load onto the battery (36W extract fan) for 15 minutes. On load, the Voltage was 12.53V, and off load, after resting 5 mins, 12.77V. The battery than stood a further hour before I started the test, by which time the Voltage had recovered to 12.91V. So, I probably hadn't removed all the surface charge.

[david lloyd]

Bumped for the benefit of Keith T

[Robbo]

Robbo - 2016-03-09 11:29 AM

 

I recently purchased two Varta LFD90 batteries from Tanya.

 

I'm a bit disappointed with the lifting arrangement - just a couple of handholds on the top. My previous batteries had plastic loops which retracted into the top of the battery casing making them much easier to manhandle.

 

 

Update on my Varta batteries. Just about to install them and suddenly realised that there is in fact a flip-up lifting handle moulded into the top of the battery casing - not obvious at first sight.

 

Silly me, as I went out and bought some strong webbing this morning to loop around the batteries to make them easier to manhandle into a confined space in the double floor area.

 

Perhaps Allan can add this to his website to help dimwitted people like me, haha !!!

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Consider it done. Photo showing the handle now on the web pages along with a new 'Temperature resilience' picture.

 

The Handle is the one thing I don't like about the batteries because the side that your fingers curl around is 'square edged' and digs into your fingers, quite painfully on the heavier batteries.

The Top side of the handle is less sharp, with a softer profile.

It would have been so easy to make this moulding with a less angular, harsh edge on both sides.

 

On the plus side it is big and easier than some, plus it runs the length of the battery, like a 'suitcase' handle does. I think it's a better way to carry as opposed to the usual 2 straps that run across the length.

 

 

 

[Robbo]

Many thanks Allan for now showing the Varta LFD90 carrying handles (Bosch example) on your website.

 

The description is: Ergonomic carrying handles for easy transportation and installation.

 

I must admit, I found the handles quite ergonomic when lifting the batteries into my awkward to get to battery recess. Mind you, I was wearing leather gloves at the time.

 

Many thanks again for your continuing support and helpful advice to the motorcaravaning fraternity.

:-D

[david lloyd]

Thought I would bump this thread for the benefit of a new member - johnsmiff - and also let you know the new Varta LFD 90 batteries are fitted and working well. Couldn't get them both under the drivers seat (which is where the vent outlet is situated) so there is one under each front seat and a second vent outlet has been made under the passenger seat.

 

Thank you to everyone who contributed and particularly to Alan at aandncaravans.

 

David