sparkymarc Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Hi, i purchased an ex mod ambulance which i am currently converting to a motorhome,it is a 2003 renault master. I t has an eberspacher diesel heater fitted in the rear which fired up fine when i first tried it then it stopped. I purched a 801 control module so i could retrieve the diagnostic code and it was fault number 52 which suggests i needed to give the heater a service, so i did, i replaced thescreen, fuel filter and gaskets i also changed the glow pin but i got the same results. The heater was pretty clean inside and didnt look like it was used much and it probably wasnt as the van had only done 40k miles. I then purchased a usb diagnostic cable to work with edith software and this confirmed the heater had only done 7 hours. It also shows that the heater was working correctly during the two starting atttempts...But there is an antitheft alarm illuminated on the screen. Could this be it? im thinking maybe it has some kind of security that may have been activated when the hacked through the wiring during decomissioning??? As far as i can see the heater should be working as ive checked everything over and over its almost like new but i just get the two start up attempts then off! It must be this antitheft alarm active,does anybody know?? If it is does anyone know how to deactivate it?? Any help would be much appreciated.i have attatched a photo of the antitheft alarm on edith. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Hi Marc and welcome to the forum, First off the Forum is currently 'Broken' in that no-one can post photos so don't worry, it isn't you. Now to your Espar heater, how much fuel do you have in your fuel tank? If less than say 1/4 of a tank then the heater may not work as the pick up pipe rarely goes to the bottom of the tank thereby preventing you from running out of fuel by using the heater. When the heater tries to fire up can you hear a very audible 'Tick, Tick, Tick...' of the dosing pump? Also try looking if there is a clear fuel line at the heater and can you see fuel/air bubbles moving along the line? As regards your security warning, I would hazard a guess that this maybe to do with the software on your computer rather then the heater, do you by any chance have an 'unlicensed' copy of Edith? I am not aware of any anti-theft in the Espar's software from my dealings with these heaters. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Also, you need a good battery,preferably fully charged to give enough power to the igniter. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrab1888 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Maybe worthwhile checking/ replacing the inline fuel filter as these can clog up, they are meant to be replaced each season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I had one on my Autosleeper Duetto. I found that if the battery was not 100% charged the darn thing would fail to work displaying the identical symptoms described. I needed to get a higher powered battery but never got round to it. But the first step should be to check the battery as these heaters are very sensitive to voltage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 As it sounds like your Eber may have been a DIY installation I'd suggest that you also check that the dosing pump is installed to specification with regard to the maximum length and maximum rise of fuel lines on either side of the pump and most importantly that the pump is installed at the correct angle i.e. sloping upwards by at least 15 degrees and not horizontal, to prevent the formation of airlocks. All is explained in great detail in the Installation, Troubleshooting and Parts PDF available on the Eber site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkymarc Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Hi all , thanks for your responses,I have always have at least half a tank of fuel and the pump is ticking away, i had changed the fuel filter and fuel is coming from the end of the fuel line, the pump is set at the correct angle also as i have gone through the trouble shoot and checked all of this. The battery is the ambulances original hefty auxiliary battery which i have checked the voltage at the heater when running and it never drops below 12.2v, i have also tried it with the engine running with 13.8v and it doenst make any difference, it just runs through two start up procedures then stops. after so many attempts fuel can be seen in the exhaust of the heater. The software shows everything working in accordance to the startup procedure in the online eberspacher operations manual. There is nothing obstructing the airflow, airways and fuel inlet on the heater are all clear. I chacked the resistance on the combi sensor ,that was fine and edith confirms that with a correct temperature reading. I have been working on it for the last 3 months and have read every forum on the web. I was reading one last night that suggests my heater is wired up to adr regulations due to it being an ambulance carrying dangerous goods ie bottles of gas.so extra steps are taken to assure the safety of the heater. this explains the extra wiring involved . Im starting to think i may need a new ecu?? Its a shame because is like new. Anymore help would be much appreciated. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkymarc Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 here is a link to the edith screen photo. https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=7D182FDFA97F4247!1140&authkey=!ALkkIco9eV2Nt9I&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Hi Marc, The only suggestion I can make now is to measure the resistance of each individual sensor within the heater by unplugging the ECU and measuring across the appropriate pins. When I first got our MH the Merc OEM fitment Espar Hydronic would not fire up in a similar way to what you are describing and it turned out to be the Flame Sensor which was out of spec (Sorry but can't remember figures now). I do not have detailed instructions for Airtronic so you will need to find exact specs to confirm against. For example the Flame Sensor in a Hydronic has a range of 1,022 to 1,062 Ohms between 10 and 20 deg C. There are 3 different sensors in a Hydronic each of which can prevent a successful start, the Flame sensor, Temperature sensor and Overheat sensor. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Hi Marc, I was typing my reply while you posted your picture so I Googled "eberspacher edith anti theft alarm " and came up with this link which specifically mentions the Anti-Theft Alarm and ADR carriage of dangerous goods. Have you seen this before? If not hopefully it will answer your query. https://www.pfjones.co.uk/eberspacher_techdocs/Airtronic_5/Airtronic%20D-B5L%20TS%2004-2008%20EN.pdf Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkymarc Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 hi keith, Thanks for that , i had seen it. All it says about the anti-theft is • wsrt Switch off the anti-theft alarm system (ADR – feedback signal for timer) I dont fully understand what it means, the wsrt = white/red wire . The adr-feedback for timer, i wonder if this has something to do with the extra box that is plugged into the wiring loom. I assumed this box was a 1hour time limiter, the heater does the same startup procedure with this box plugged in or not. Hmmmmm Im still no the wiser. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkymarc Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Ive now finished work for xmas so tomorrow i will do a video of the heater start attempts viewing the edith screen. I will put it on youtube and place the link on here. It may help diagnose this problem. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 ...I don't know which manual you are working from, but this one (which covers ADR) is pretty comprehensive. http://etsltd.ru/upload/dokumentatsiya/eberspacher/rukovodstvo-po-remontu-airtronic-d2-d4.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Marc, As best as I can read the circuit diagrams the ws/rt is a Red/White wire which is an OUTPUT from the heater either for the ADR emergency control OR as an output to start a timer. Unless this is shorted to ground I don't think it is your problem. So... on to your original Code 52. The manuals all say... "052 No start safety time exceeded. No flame detected on start attempt. Check exhaust and combustion air lines. Check fuel supply/measure fuel quantity, see following pages. Check glow pin (see fault code 020 and 021). Check flame sensor, diagram and values table on following pages, if O.K., replace control unit. " So I still think you need to individually check all the sensors. At least it doesn't cost in other than time. Failing this it may be worth phoning Espar directly or maybe PF Jones who posted the instructions I linked to earlier. They may have encountered your ADR or fault profile. Keith. Edit to add: Was 052 the only fault code stored or did you possibly have others which you did not scroll through? A code of 009 may explain your trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Robinhood - 2015-12-21 9:48 PM ...I don't know which manual you are working from, but this one (which covers ADR) is pretty comprehensive. http://etsltd.ru/upload/dokumentatsiya/eberspacher/rukovodstvo-po-remontu-airtronic-d2-d4.pdf Thanks for the link RH, that's one site I hadn't found. Looking at page 12 of these instructions the ADR function is explained as... "GGVS / TRS 003 / ADR / ADR 99 switch-off due to signal change from (+) to (–) at connector S1, PIN 13 (D+) or plus signal at connector S1, PIN 14 (HA+)." This means that for the heater to run you MUST have a +12 volt signal at pin 13 ie Engine running from Alternator. And you MUST NOT have +12 volts at pin 14 as this signifies something else is running and the heater must not run at this time. This is then illustrated in the circuit diagram on page 20 (lower left hand corner) items 5.5 and 5.3 respectively. HTH, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkymarc Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Hi, Thanks for your help so far, I am in the van now having a go at a few things, there is no pin 13 or 14 connected to anything so thats that theory out the window, ive checked the resistance on the sensors and that is fine however after running a few tests i though i would check there is a voltage going to the glow plug when edith shows me the glow plug should be energised and there is nothing, this explains why there is no voltage dip at anytime during the startup procedure, so as this is a new plug and i get the same result with the old plug it cant be a defective glow plug but something else. Any ideas?? Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkymarc Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 Great news, well sort of.. After spending all day yesterday going throught the troubleshoot over and over and confirming that everything is working correctly i decided to check the voltage acros the glow pin when it should be energised and there was no voltage, so today i spoke to technical support at espar and told them everthing about the history and current situation of the heater. Turns out that that particular ecu is the older type and there has been a software update since to prevent this particular failure. the older type ecu has a pvc covering on the cable ,the newer type with the software update has a fabric type covering on the cable. So this confirms what i initially thought, the ecu has packed in, he also said this was probably because the heater hasnt been used as the heater has only done 7 hours since 2003 and the van itself has only done 40k, this could be why it started on my first startup then suddenly failed. So espars new ecu cost £340, i found the same unit with the fabric cable cover on pf jones for £225 inc vat and £6.50 delivery charge. It should arrive tomorrow,Great stuff. Hopefully this solves the problem and i will have a good heater in my conversion that should last me a long time. Thanks for all your help and i will post back once i have tried the new ecu. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 That's good news, apart from the bill of course. You've been unlucky there because my Airtronic D4 purchased in 2002 already came with the newer ECU with fabric-covered wiring loom. Once up and running (and if correctly installed) they are great bits of kit. At a conservative estimate mine has about 7,000 hours on it with no servicing at all and just one (easy) replacement of the glowplug screen. A good tip is to run it on high heat on kerosene (e.g. 28 sec. central heating oil or Jet A1) once in a while as this effectively de-cokes it in situ and seems to obviate the need to take it apart to clean it out. I put 3 or 4 litres of kero through mine twice a year and it really perks it up; you can hear that the burn, on low heat particularly, becomes much steadier and strong-sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkymarc Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 The eberspacher ecu arrived this morning, ive just fitted it and fired her up, She now works perfectly fine.The van did sit in a cloud of white smoke for 10 mins while it burnt off all the unburnt fuel but it works great! So a lesson learnt and hopefully this thread will help someone else in the future with the same problem.Thank you everyone for your help and the information on keeping the heater in good condition using kero , I will be taking that on board.Thanks again and hope you all have a very good christmas and a happy new year! Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkymarc Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 Oh and the antitheft signal is just an extra wire which gives a 12v signal when the heater switches on to turn off the vehicles security system so the alarm doesnt go off when the heater is running. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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