Buying an old Hymer A-Class - problems to look for?

[CubicleDweller]

Hi,

 

(This is my first post here - please be gentle! :-) )

 

My wife and I are looking to buy our first motorhome. We've hired old A-class Hymers in the past, and really like them. We've found one for sale locally within our budget and hope to view it this weekend. It's a 1994 StarLine S580. Mercedes chassis, diesel engine, automatic transmission, bar layout. Very similar to "Selma".

 

As first-time buyers, we're anxious to check the vehicle as thoroughly as possible. We have a friend who is an experienced mechanic, and he'll check the mechanical stuff. We'll check the habitation side of things ourselves.

 

So, has anyone got any advice on particular problems to look for, in a motorhome of this type? Mechanical problems that we should ask our mechanic to check for? Particular problems that can arise with these old automatic gearboxes? Common faults that can happen with the appliances or furnishings? Are there particular places to check for leaks, or rust?

 

Any suggestions for things to check will be very gratefully received!

 

Thanks in advance.

 

CD

[George Collings]

Assuming its Sprinter based the transverse front spring can sag leading to MOT failure as clearance between the suspension arm and bump stop is to small. The lack of suspension travel makes you really feel the bigger bumps. I changed one on my VW LT that shares the chassis. You can get away with only dismantling the suspension on just one side and sliding the spring out. Its a heavy job but not too involved. Make sure the rubber end caps are genuine MB The ones supplied with the non MB spring I had were too big to get the spring in place. It was a bit like shoes that were to tight in the toe.

 

There was a choice of Automatic transmissions on that age of Sprinter. A more expensive but smoother torque converter type and cheaper automated friction clutch and synchro box called the Sprintshift thats more common andt may give a little better fuel consumption. Only the torque converter type is available on the current Sprinter - say no more.

[CubicleDweller]

Hi George,

 

Thanks very much for that information - it's exactly the sort of "known problem" that I'm hoping to find out about.

 

Unfortunately (or maybe not?) I don't think the Hymer is Sprinter-based. It's a 1994 model, and according to Wikipedia the first Sprinters appeared in 1995. I think this motorhome may be based on the "310 D", which is apparently a variant of the Mercedes Benz TN. But I'm not even 100% sure of that.

 

Thanks again, and please keep the ideas coming!

 

 

[Keithl]

Hi CD,

 

Like you I doubt this will be a Sprinter but more likely a 'T2 New'.

 

Have a look at this Wiki article and I think from this you will find it is something like a 507 or 611.

The 310 range of numbering was only used until the 'T2 New' was introduced in 1986.

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_T_2#Zweite_Generation_.281986-1996.29

 

Keith.

[Seannachie]

Keithl - 2016-01-08 7:36 AM

 

 

The 310 range of numbering was only used until the 'T2 New' was introduced in 1986.

 

.

 

I think you may be mistaken about that because I purchased a new, unregistered 5-cylinder engined 3500Kg Merc from a Merc Main Dealer which was badged and shown in the V5 as a 310D in 1993 and Merc's own documents referred to it as a T1.

[StuartO]

This series of S Class Hymers were extremely well built and have a steel roll-over cage inside the well-insulated walls. Hymer used to advertise their strength by parking one on top of another. The GRP roof is also extremely unlikely to allow any internal dampness to develop, so all in all an excellent choice, providing you don't mind the, by modern standards, under-powered engine.

 

The side walls have a wrinkly external finish which can present a challenge if you need to repair any dings but the advantage is that any side wall repairs there have been in the pat should be easier to spot.

 

Check that all the services work of course, especially the heating and the leisure battery charging, but despite the age, these MHs are robust and reliable, so buy with confidence and enjoy!

[CubicleDweller]

Thanks, everyone, for the replies. Hopefully the paperwork that comes with the motorhome will clear up the question of exactly what MB vehicle it is based on. Obviously that will be important to know when looking for spare parts. (Of course, I'm hoping not to need too many of those!)

 

@StuartO - I'm glad to see that you think these vans as well-built and reliable as I'm hoping they are. What you say agrees with a lot of comments I've read online; it's partly this reputation for reliability and build quality that drew me to old Hymers in the first place. I suppose any manufacturer can produce the occasional "dud", but I've never heard of an early 90's S-Class having major problems that weren't put down to reasonable wear and tear.

 

It's a good point about how the "wrinkly" finish has a good side and a bad side. It's hard to hide any repairs that have been done previously, which right now (as the potential buyer) is to my advantage. I may curse it later if I ever have any prangs that leave unsightly dents...

 

The low engine power is one thing that I'm hoping to be able to just live with. I'm expecting to use this for fairly long, leisurely trips, so speed is not a priority. But I gather the old engines can be noisy, so I may want to look into some sound-proofing. Also, they're probably very dirty, so that will probably limit where I can take the van on the Continent, with all of the Environmental Zones springing up around Germany and Italy. Does anyone know if it is practical to fit some sort of particulate filter to these old engines?

 

Thanks again,

CD

[Robbo]

Don't know if you are aware but there is Facebook group called Classic Hymers.

 

It was established in 2013 and has lots of information, apparently.

 

There is also Hymer Club International whose membership includes many with older Hymers.

[Seannachie]

CubicleDweller - 2016-01-08 6:17 PM

 

 

The low engine power is one thing that I'm hoping to be able to just live with. I'm expecting to use this for fairly long, leisurely trips, so speed is not a priority. But I gather the old engines can be noisy, so I may want to look into some sound-proofing. Also, they're probably very dirty, so that will probably limit where I can take the van on the Continent, with all of the Environmental Zones springing up around Germany and Italy. Does anyone know if it is practical to fit some sort of particulate filter to these old engines?

 

Thanks again,

CD

 

If it's the 4 cylinder OM1, it is distinctly underpowered - from memory 70bhp at the clutch; if it's the 5 cylinder OM2, it is okay - 92bhp at the clutch.

 

The engine can be adapted by fitting a filter etc., but it has to be done by an accredited company - of which there are several - and a certificate provided showing the emissions. When the London Emission Zone came in, I was quoted between £600 - £1000 to 'fix' my OM2 so that I could drive through London. I didn't bother.

[George Collings]

There a lot of Auto-Trails based on the Pre Sprinter beam axle MB van when I first got into Motorhoming in the late 90s Every time I got into one I knocked myself on something hard in the cab. They were known as Himmler's revenge

 

I saw a Hymer built on one years ago I think it was a 505 or similar and it had a list of factory fit extras that would not look out of place on a current model. Items such as ABS, Limited slip differential and air con. It was already about 12 years old and the OH was to say the least unimpressed.

 

If I found a good one I would seriously consider changing the engine for a modenrnish spark ignition and auto transmission from the likes of MB (the 1980s 2.3 litre four cylinder might even been an option) BMW or even Jaguar. Powerful, smooth, and reasonably economical. Take it where you like and fuel costs are a small fraction of what motorcaravanning really costs.

 

I normally advise that engine swaps even when DIY are hardly worth the effort but LEZ expansion has brought it back into the limelight to allow the freedom of movement the activity is all about.

 

Someone wrote to Interchange years ago asking if these old MB vans were underpowered and I replied there was no such thing as an underpowered MB vehicle but there were impatient MB drivers and anywhere you were there for the view.

[CubicleDweller]

Good stuff, folks - really glad I posted here for information!

 

@Robbo: No, I didn't know about that group, so thanks for the tip. I joined it (moderator approved membership inside an hour) and it does indeed seem to have lots of good information. I'm currently working my way through the "Classic Hymer Buyers Guide" which is an excellent read. (I didn't know Facebook groups had the ability to share files like that - I might have to revise my opinion of Facebook, which was pretty low up to now!) If I eventually buy this motorhome or another one like it, I can see myself spending a lot of time in that group's archives... Hymer Club International may also be of interest, but since it costs money to join I'll wait till I actually own one. :-)

 

@Seannachie: I didn't know about the two engine variants, so thanks for that. The Buyer's Guide (mentioned above) talks mostly about the 5-cylinder engine, describing it as the "million-mile" engine. I'll definitely be asking the mechanic to count the cylinders. :-) I know that I said I don't mind the vehicle being under-powered by modern standards, but I'd definitely prefer 92bhp over 70!

 

The idea of fitting a filter is something I might look into later but based on the figures you were quoted, I might decide it's not worth the expense. We'll see just how much of Europe is covered by low-emission zones in a few years' time.

 

@George: This is an A-class motorhome, so you'd hope there would be plenty of head-room in the cab area. Despite that, I've whacked my head before when getting into the driver's seat of an S 555. But thankfully that was on the side of the pull-down bed, which is fairly well padded!

 

An engine transplant sounds like a huge undertaking (relative to my very limited DIY skills). The difficulty of accessing the engine bay in an A-class body would presumably make it even more of a challenge. Still, it might be something to consider if I eventually lose patience with the lack of power, and being excluded from too many areas. I might have to be very nice to my brother-in-law, the only mechanic in the family. :-)

 

We're off to view the motorhome tomorrow morning. Thanks for all the advice - I'll report back here about whether we buy it or not.

 

Cheers,

CD

 

 

 

[CubicleDweller]

Good stuff, folks - really glad I posted here for information!

 

@Robbo: No, I didn't know about that group, so thanks for the tip. I joined it (moderator approved membership inside an hour) and it does indeed seem to have lots of good information. I'm currently working my way through the "Classic Hymer Buyers Guide" which is an excellent read. (I didn't know Facebook groups had the ability to share files like that - I might have to revise my opinion of Facebook, which was pretty low up to now!) If I eventually buy this motorhome or another one like it, I can see myself spending a lot of time in that group's archives... Hymer Club International may also be of interest, but since it costs money to join I'll wait till I actually own one. :-)

 

@Seannachie: I didn't know about the two engine variants, so thanks for that. The Buyer's Guide (mentioned above) talks mostly about the 5-cylinder engine, describing it as the "million-mile" engine. I'll definitely be asking the mechanic to count the cylinders. :-) I know that I said I don't mind the vehicle being under-powered by modern standards, but I'd definitely prefer 92bhp over 70!

 

The idea of fitting a filter is something I might look into later but based on the figures you were quoted, I might decide it's not worth the expense. We'll see just how much of Europe is covered by low-emission zones in a few years' time.

 

@George: This is an A-class motorhome, so you'd hope there would be plenty of head-room in the cab area. Despite that, I've whacked my head before when getting into the driver's seat of an S 555. But thankfully that was on the side of the pull-down bed, which is fairly well padded!

 

An engine transplant sounds like a huge undertaking (relative to my very limited DIY skills). The difficulty of accessing the engine bay in an A-class body would presumably make it even more of a challenge. Still, it might be something to consider if I eventually lose patience with the lack of power, and being excluded from too many areas. I might have to be very nice to my brother-in-law, the only mechanic in the family. :-)

 

We're off to view the motorhome tomorrow morning. Thanks for all the advice - I'll report back here about whether we buy it or not.

 

Cheers,

CD

 

 

 

[George Collings]

Somewhere I saw that the best way to get the engine out was to remove all the bolt on front panels leaving a wide open gap at the front but that route is probably blocked by the front of an A class.

 

Most likely the engine and transmission would have to be removed/ replaced from below, possibly after removal of the front axle but that's not to complicated with a cart sprung design.