benwilkes Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi everyone, I'm new to this. My wife and I (along with two boys, 4 and 6) are looking to get into motorhoming and have a budget of up to 25k. We have seen a Bessacarr E435 that looks great and now it's getting close to doing the deal, I'm getting nervous. We will be seeing it at the weekend and my list to check is: 1. Spongy floor / damp - is the undecided covered in black plastic (worrying sign) or black painted (probably treated) 2. Gearbox / Juddering whilst reversing issues. I understand Fiat have had some issues with this but am not sure if this is all / a few / which model etc? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm keen to become a MH-er but don't want to start wrong. Thanks Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Have a read of this https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/buyers-guide/motorhomes/features/details/24 and this http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/reviews/motorhome/30284-bessacarr-e435 You will see the payload is 396kg which is a bit tight for a family of four. However, if the van has been uprated to 3500kg, it should be ok. Payload is something you need to take seriously. There have been several threads recently on this but any internet search will give you plenty of information. If you can get a clean and dry one which is not damp, it will be a sensible choice but only until the boys get older. Boys tend to fight when cooped up in a luton - we had two boys! Make sure you keep some money back to cover any unexpected bills in your first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benwilkes Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Thanks John, that is really helpful. As a newbie, I presume payload is the max weight we can move in the vehicle - I.e. Combines passenger and luggage weight. I shall look into it more. The article about the vehicle is helpful although we are looking at the newer model with the updates cab. I'm concerned (although not 100% sure) it's the X250 that has been reported on as having issues with reversing up hills and shuddering. Do you know anything about that? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Mornin;... Any make of van can "leak" but Judging by forum chatter Bessacarr (Swift) vans do not have a very good track record when it come to water ingress, nor on their general "behind the scenes" build quality..:-S So, if hell bent on getting it, get it checked over for signs of damp, previous or current, VERY carefully...crawl all over, and under it.... (*and if it's from a dealer, try to get hold of the previous owner's contact details and have a chat with them?...just in case there was any reason/fault they had sold/traded it in..) Don't feel rushed into buying any van...there are plenty of vans out there. ;-) On the reverse judder side of things, although 2008 falls within the "era" when this occurred, some vans didn't suffer with it at all(our '07 Pug, although high geared, didn't "judder"), whilst some vans were(reportedly ;-) ) neigh on un-drivable and supposedly shook themselves to bits....supposedly..... By now I'd like to think that any mods/re-work had been carried out but it's something I'd certainly want to check up on. Either way, a lengthy test drive, taking in some steep sections where you can test for yourself would be in order... :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 We have had three Swift made vans since 2007, all have been fine. They did have some spongy floor issues but in earlier models than the one you are looking at. The reverse gear issue was really a big thing back in 2008, personally have never suffered from it but some did. Fiat offered a free fix for this and you should check it has been done, if not I see no reason it still cannot be sorted. All makes can suffer these issues, damp happens in all makes, you will, of course hear more about UK built vans suffering but as most vans sold in the UK are built here not unusual. A damp check is easy to do and if no damp is present in a van of this age it should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Having never owned any Swift product I am unable to speak from personal experience but just as there are some unhappy owners so there must be a lot of very happy bunnies or people would not keep on buying them new? If you really are worried about damp have you considered an Autosleeper Talisman with an overcab bed - one piece GRP body, leaks are very rare and usually just a window seal, similar layout but it might be too compact for 4 people? Personally I would avoid the older more agricultural 2.5 diesels in favour of the very sweet running 2.2 or the more powerful but slightly more vocal 2.8. The upsides are that it is easier to drive and park, being curve sided and with a more compact overcab, and has a far better build quality and better residual values in my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I would insist on a test drive, and include a fairly steep reverse up a hill in that test. It should reverse smoothly without any drama, if it doesn't. ......walk away. This was a genuine problem, that caused a lot of heartache,and would now cost YOU a small fortune to put right. Get it damp checked of course. Otherwise enjoy your purchase ! As tracker,I have not owned any Swift products, but they are no worse or better than other converters, and that INCLUDES Continental ones. Just make sure you get it from a good dealer and get a warranty, OR if buying privately get the van professionally checked before handing over your money.Let us know how you get on. Ps the gearbox judder problem occurred on X250 cabbed vans from late 2006, when it was introduced, until about 2009/10, caused by reverse gear being far too high for a commercial vehicle.Annoyingly it didn't seem to affect them all.Hence some saying they were never affected. Test it ,the only way to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benwilkes Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Thank you so much everyone, this is so incredibly helpful. A little update: It's a private sale (through a motorhomedepot broker) and we have agreed a price in principle. - the broker has checked with the vendors paperwork and the payload is 525kg. Is that OK for a family of 4? (Boys 4 and 6 but growing) - The vehicle has just had a new MOT and they will do a full hab check and carry out any work before we take ownership (if we do). The last one in Oct 2014 was fine. - it is a 2008 but very low mileage - less than 10,000. We are due to view it at the weekend where I will do a full check of the floor to make sure it doesn't have the plastic lining to the wood that seems to be the key to the soggy bottoms (!) that were reported in earlier ones. We will also test drive and if we can find a hill, I'll reverse on it and see. There was no report of a problem but the seller is the daughter of the elderly owner so not the main user. It was feeling like its a minefield we couldn't navigate but I am reassured somewhat by your feedback. If I could ask one more favour, - would you consider the payload of 525kg appropriate? - is there anything else I should pay particular attention to? In short, if its dry and reverses I think I'd like to buy it. Is there any reason why not???? Thanks in advance - I might be part of the gang soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Good luck and if all is as you believe it to be it could very well be a good van to get you started. Have you looked on line to compare retail prices so that what you pay is not OTT. Payload is a vexed question as we are all different and with a motorhome you may well find that the clutter soon expands to fill all the available spaces - especially with two young boys to keep entertained! Part of the payload if it has them will be taken up by such things as an awning, solar panel, second leisure battery, bike rack, sat TV etc and a few of these desirable goodies can soon make a big dent in the available payload - even a spare wheel and jack if it did not have these from new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 If the engine is the 2.2 or 2.3 litre then you need to find out when the last cambelt renewal was made. It's recommended that the cambelt is changed every 5 years or at least by 7 years. If the payload is 525Kg then I guess it must be on the 3500 chassis. However, best to take it to a weighbridge BEFORE you part with any money, just to be sure, with 2 adults and 2 children onboard. At least you'd then know what surplus payload you have remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I would carefully check the underside - around both rear quarters and around any cut-outs that facilitate pipework, ducting and the like. Don't be afraid to have a good poke around... Don't assume that a habitation check will cover these areas, or around side skirts and mouldings - it seldom will. As has been mentioned - possibly overdue a cambelt too. To say all vans are 'much of a muchness' is simply not true - some are clearly superior to others in terms of build concept and quality. Good luck with the purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Robbo - 2016-01-12 6:53 PM If the engine is the 2.2 or 2.3 litre then you need to find out when the last cambelt renewal was made. It's recommended that the cambelt is changed every 5 years or at least by 7 years. If the payload is 525Kg then I guess it must be on the 3500 chassis. However, best to take it to a weighbridge BEFORE you part with any money, just to be sure, with 2 adults and 2 children onboard. At least you'd then know what surplus payload you have remaining. Further thoughts: Suggest you check the manufacturing date of the tyres. This can be found on the sidewall ie. 4 numbers - first two numbers is the week and last two numbers is the year. So, 0408 would be end of January 2008. I change my tyres every 5 to 7 years, as recommended, irrespective of tread depth. If the tyres haven't been changed then that is an additional expense (say, £500) you will be landed with. The tyre date also gives you a good indication of when the base vehicle was manufactured. Also, brake fluid change, this should be done every 2 to 3 years. I think there was a recall about the reverse judder where a lower reverse gear cog was installed and the engine mountings replaced - check this work was carried out. With a van that has done a low mileage (approx 1000 miles per year) you will probably find that these time related service items have not been carried out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Ben, As it is a private sale through the brokers I am fairly certain you will not get any warranty so it may be wise to get a professional inspection carried out prior to handing over any money. Or maybe place a deposit subject to a satisfactory report. I know of two organisations offering full habitation and base vehicle inspections, the Caravan Club and the MCEA (Mobile Caravan Engineers Association). Other forum members may know of others if you ask. It would be a small price to pay for piece of mind or if it reveals any faults you could then try to negotiate the price further. http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/shop-and-offers/member-offers/caravan-and-motorhome-inspectors http://www.mobilecaravanengineers.co.uk/ PS If you elect to go with the CC it may be worth joining to get the lower fee, you could in effect get a years free membership :-) Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Robbo - 2016-01-12 6:53 PM ... However, best to take it to a weighbridge BEFORE you part with any money, just to be sure, with 2 adults and 2 children onboard. At least you'd then know what surplus payload you have remaining. Agree..and pay attention to the individual axle loadings as well Because it you end up wanting to carry bikes(on a rack) or fitting a rear storage box, you'll need plenty of spare on the rear axle..and as has been said, any existing "accessories" will already be eating into any "brochure" payload.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 QUOTE. To say all vans are 'much of a muchness' is simply not true - some are clearly superior to others in terms of build concept and quality. QUOTE And which are these paragons of perceived quality ? Wouldn't be Continental brands by any chance ? Poor deluded one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Why would you imply someone is 'deluded' for making a statement based on knowledge, experience and fact? I don't see where I mentioned any specific brand, or indeed in which part of the world it's manufactured.... You appear to be suffering from some kind of persecution complex - and you also reinforce why I seldom visit this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Comment was not personal, but directed at ALL who think that Continental ways of Manufacture are in some way Superior to UK ways. MY experience has been that indeed, most, Manufacturers both UK and Continental produce similar quality products, some good,some bad. But that NO manufacturer is head and shoulders above any other, and price is no real indicator of Quality. To the Op. Bessacar produce a good quality (with the above proviso) motorhome, but check it, or get it checked, for Damp. Good luck. No offence meant globebuster, I did ask which Manufacturer/'s you were alluding to.? And you did say that my statement was untrue. ie. That my knowledge,experience and Facts were not valid ? No persecution complex, just don't like being called a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I won't get involved in a debate on why one manufacturer could be seen to be better than another... The quote "poor deluded one" is hardly a generalisation is it - that seems a very singular statement, maybe you left the s off in error? By your own admission you have never owned a Swift product, so not sure you can qualify any comments on comparing build quality with any other make - in fact your rather sweeping statement that Bessacar produce a good quality product is based on what exactly? All I hope is the OP buys a decent van, regardless of manufacture - he seems to have been diligent enough to have done some homework already, and I'm sure he has enough nous to realise that some vans are better than others Call you a liar? - where did that come from!!........must be that complex kicking in......again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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