louisekay Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Hi i am new to motorhomeing (first winter) and would like some advise on keeping lesiure battery fully charged elddis autoquest has a automatic charger so when on mains chargers. During this cold snap have been hooking up to mains for a few hours a day leaving heater on sometimes. Will this damage the battery inanyway or would it be ok to leave on 24/7. If you were away it would be on mains 24/7but you would be using ljghts etc.or should i just charge on mains once a week say for 24 hours hope this makes sense, any thoughts please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisekay Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 Put it simply can i leave my leisure battery hooked up to mains at home 24/7 without damaging it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 This is a controversial question. Some will say yes and others will say no. It depends to some extent on the make of charging system and the battery type. Some charging systems drip-feed the batteries even when they are fully charged. I just charge for a couple of days until they get to a float charge of 13.8 volts and then turn off. Then, when they discharge to a resting voltage of around 12.2 volts (about 50% discharge), I then charge up again for a couple of days. My starter battery seems to discharge more than the habitation battery, probably cos it powers the vehicle standby electronics and the Tracker system (which I no longer use but it still consumes power). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veletron Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Robbo - 2016-01-20 7:59 PM I just charge for a couple of days until they get to a float charge of 13.8 volts and then turn off. Then, when they discharge to a resting voltage of around 12.2 volts (about 50% discharge), I then charge up again for a couple of days. Ouch! 12.4V is closer to the resting voltage for 50%SoC for a FLA whether open or VRLA. At 12.2v the battery will be sulphating. That said, you will get as many different views on this as folks you ask! If I were laying up my vehicle, I would just connect something like this permanently: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E907PWS/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_RB.Nwb98V1S0A Assuming that you fully charge with built in charger before lay-up, you could get away with the lower current version of this charger. To connect this, disconnect the hookup, unplug the mains input cable from the built-in charger, reconnect hookup, connect this item to batteries, and plug it in. If you have 2 leisure batteries, connect -ve to one battery and +ve to the other. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Normally nothing runs off the leisure battery when static....therefore there is no need to charge it between trips! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Let's get the heating question out of the way first. It is not really necessary although some people do put a small oil filled radiator in their van. Now to your batteries. If you are reading the voltages from a voltmeter built into the van, it is very likely to be inaccurate. The best way to check is with a multimeter across the batteries. If you have an alarm fitted (and a Tracker as well), there will be a small drain on your engine battery which can flatten it in 2, 3, or 4 weeks. If you want to cover your options, why not use a timer which will charge the batteries for a couple of hours per day. Just plug the timer into your household socket and plug the van hookup cable into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Had a chat with our dealer about this. They confirmed that after 4 weeks of non use (Engine Battery) - The van will very likely not start, more so in very cold conditions and after 6 weeks it will certainly not start - and that's with a fully charged battery in good condition to start with. The dealer has raised this with Fiat - essentially the reply was - You may disconnect engine the battery if you wish, otherwise these are vans meant for regular use, high mileage, long distances and you will need to live with it, - Motorhome use, (irregular usage and lower mileage) isn't typical of their base, (New Fiat Ducato), so realistically every 3 weeks it needs a reasonable drive, or to go on hook up for maybe 24 hours. Simply firing it up for 10 mins in the storage field will not do it and might be more harmful than beneficial. The habitation battery on the other hand has almost no drain when everything is switched off and will last a very fair time, - Although both charge when on the hook or when driving. It would be good - (only my thought) to have an emergency boost from the habitation battery, to be rarely used, to give the main battery a kick - but only on exceptional occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coot Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I start our engine once a week letting it get up to temperature so far it starts first time. Leisure battery is holding its charge according to the meter in the motorhome. Waiting for our Devon lanes to dry up before taking it out. If we have to get on to side we will sink in the mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 EJB - 2016-01-21 11:35 AM Normally nothing runs off the leisure battery when static....therefore there is no need to charge it between trips! So how come so many of the wretched things still go flat when left for a few weeks then? The electronics are still connected and batteries also 'self drain' over time and the older - or more abused - they get the worse that self drain seems to become - even if you disconnect it and sit it on a bench! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 coot - 2016-01-21 5:20 PM I start our engine once a week letting it get up to temperature so far it starts first time. Leisure battery is holding its charge according to the meter in the motorhome. Waiting for our Devon lanes to dry up before taking it out. If we have to get on to side we will sink in the mud. I can fully understand doing this and maybe with a petrol van it is OK, probably needs less of a jolt to get going because the compression is generally lower. - however my guess is with the modern higher compression Diesel engines with the DPF Filters if they are not totally warmed through - Eventually there is a likelihood of a large bill arriving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coot Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 It is a diesel engine I always let it get up to full temperature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hi Louisekay; sorry youve rattled a few people who have contributed to your thread. I am a male campervan user, and I have an aversion to electricity, I leave it to electricians to solve any problems. I use it, but am not that comfortable dealing with technicalities. There are plenty of people who will advise you in great detail on maintenance of your leisure battery or batteries, and your "vehicle" battery. You could also do a search of the last year's threads on "leisure battery maintenance" or similar. What I do is simply pretend we're away in the van for a couple of days and plug it in as I would on a site. I do this at least once a month. The charger on our van doesn't charge the vehicle battery. To deal with this I've bought a C-tek charger which I will use regularly, when I'm unable to take the van out for a run or for a few days away. Fairly simple routine. I do sometimes wonder if I should have more data on which to base my routines, but data without understanding is not that helpful, in my experience. Good luck regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Can we advise caution on the regularity of when you switch on the charger? Some of the older generation 3 stage chargers have a predetermined time for how long they will charge at the first voltage of say 14.4v? This can be up to 8 hours before they drop to 13.8/13.5v, which for a fully charged battery may be more than ideal. They will adjust the current to about 1 amp, but 8 hours at 14.4v and 1 amp every day might be a lot for a battery that does not want it? Better to charge the batteries at longer intervals which might be 2 weeks or 6 weeks depending on the drain from the Stereo, Alarm, Tracker, etc. We would suggest you EHU when the battery gets to 12.7v or every 4 weeks, whichever comes first? A good Silver based battery can stay charged up for 6 months, if disconnected. Some of the older technology batteries, generally the open screw tops, sometimes have a quite high self discharge rate that can be as high as 25% a month, even when new. The self discharge rate really does vary enormously between the best and the worst. The best, reasonably priced, battery we have found for keeping its charge is the Varta LFD/Bosch L5 range. Exide G80 and it's Gel Cousins are also at the top. But the problem with installing a G80 is that the Starter battery, may get the same 'Gel' charge rate which is not the optimum for 'Wet' Starter battery. If you have high drain on the Starter battery, say from a Tracker or after market stereo, then a Wet habitation battery with the resultant more efficient voltage for the Starter might work better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Can I issue a word of caution here because a lot of you have taken your eye off the ball and it is annoying the OP. She just wants a simple answer to a simple question and is getting a bit upset because it is not forthcoming. So, if you own an Elddis Autoquest (year unknown but recent) just tell her what she wants to hear. You may need to read her first post to refresh your memory. Otherwise keep shtum and do not speculate unnecessarily. Good night. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 louisekay - 2016-01-20 7:13 PM Put it simply can i leave my leisure battery hooked up to mains at home 24/7 without damaging it Yes. I have for the last 2 winters. I have an Elddis accordo 105. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 louise, notwithstanding all the previous technical assistance upthread, and assuming you have an answer for charging your leisure batteries, the Elddis regime does not charge the vehicle battery and with modern alarms etc, this will get dragged down in four weeks or so.... so, you need a method of charging the vehicle battery..... three simple choices.... one, fit a battery master (or similar) that 'charges' the vehicle battery from the leisure battery. two, take the van put for a run regularly three, fit a CTEK (or similar) stand alone charger to the leisure battery periodically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbee Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hi ,we have not long ago changed our 115.For three years Iclipped a small solar charger to the jump start points in the engine bay.Never any problem,checked voltage now and then to make sure panel still working,panel laid on dash inside.Plug in every 4 weeks or before trip out-worked for us. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisekay Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hi this is what the hand book says regarding tbe lesiure battery on our elddis 115 AUTOMATIC CHARGING SYSTEM "the battery charger will operate automatically when the motirhone is connected to the mains outlet on a site.the 12v system with the exception of tge 12v refrigerator and battery charging, will not operate when the motor home is running. " BATTERY MAINTENANCE "Do not charge your leisure battery with any charger other than that supplied " This us why i was wondering why people use iindependent chargers and charge different ways reading the hand book seems to surgest that safe to jeep hooked to the mains as long as you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Louise you have asked a question that is not simple to answer. The manual paragraph you quote is often misinterpreted, it is talking about 'on site', not in storage. It is often assumed to be the same. When you are on site you are using the battery, so it needs to be charged up. In storage it is charged up, so doesn't need to be charged any more. While you will read much about being able to leave it on charge, there has been growing evidence in the last 12 months that it is not the best practise. It will take a long time for that new evidence to be absorbed and assessed. Time will show whether the evidence is proved meaningful or rejected. But until then there will be many divided opinions, depending on what is believed. Note : Not one battery manufacturer recommends you permanently charge a battery. We repair Charger units and Motorhomes, we see both damaged chargers and deteriorated batteries from leaving them on charge in storage. The risk and extent of damage to either will depend on many things from the type of charger, there are about 103 different ones, to the batteries which are far from similar to one another. Batteries are as different as a Mini and a Truck. One persons battery and charger configuration, even with the same Model Motorhome, may be totally different to yours so the advice irrelevant. The reason we would guess it says don't use any charger except the on board unit, is that some have higher voltage output, like the CTEKS, that can be high enough to damage the Motorhome electrics. From the Authors point of view it is easier to write 'don't use anything' rather than create a list that will get out of date in months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 aandncaravan - 2016-01-22 10:30 PM The reason we would guess it says don't use any charger except the on board unit, is that some have higher voltage output, like the CTEKS, that can be high enough to damage the Motorhome electrics. From the Authors point of view it is easier to write 'don't use anything' rather than create a list that will get out of date in months. I should have said that I only use the Ctek charger with all the internal electrics turned off and with the leisure battery isolator switch off. I fitted an isolator switch to the leisure battery because turning it off helps conserve the charge and as I am getting mighty fed up with the constant need to faff about charging the wretched thing every two weeks I am considering fitting one to the starter battery as well! I do not consider that I need an active alarm as the van is outside the house, on the drive, behind a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 aandncaravan - 2016-01-22 10:30 PM While you will read much about being able to leave it on charge, there has been growing evidence in the last 12 months that it is not the best practise. It will take a long time for that new evidence to be absorbed and assessed. Time will show whether the evidence is proved meaningful or rejected. But until then there will be many divided opinions, depending on what is believed. Note : Not one battery manufacturer recommends you permanently charge a battery. We repair Charger units and Motorhomes, we see both damaged chargers and deteriorated batteries from leaving them on charge in storage. Our PVC is fitted with a "cbe" charger and 12V distribution board, and was first used in September 2006. That is over 9 years old . Generally the vehicle has been connected to EHU for most of that time. The "cbe" distribution board connects the charger to both the leisure and starter batteries. The leisure batteries have been topped up if necessary on an annual basis. They were exhibiting reduced capacity, and were replaced last August, but perhaps an earlier change would have been better. Perhaps 8 years useful life? Further we did discharge the leisure batteries as low as 12 volts on at least two occasions during their 8 year life. The starter battery still functions OK, but I am prepared to change it as soon as I consider it a wise move. The leisure battery floats at 13.5 volts and due to the blocking diode and thermistor in the charge coupling circuit, the vehicle battery is measured at 12.7 volts. The load on the charger is minimal and there is no detectable heat coming from it. In the light of my experience I cannot agree that permanent floating of the batteries has damaged either the batteries or the charger, but I am prepared to reconsider if new evidence emerges. I think that the faults mentioned by Andacaravan could be due to over discharged batteries failing and perhaps taking the chargers down as well. In response to aandacaravan's opinion expressed on a previous thread, I did consider routing the EHU connection via a 7day time switch set to charge for several hours on a weekly basis. However on reconsidering the matter I wonder if the repeated charger start up cycles with their higher initial voltages would not be beneficial to the batteries? During my employment in the electricity transmission industry, we floated Flood Lead Acid (FLA) batteries at 2.25 volts per cell, (Equal to 13.5 volts for a 12 volt battery.) with the load carried by the charger. Vital electronic equipment was in service 24/7, to protect our (That means yours and mine.) electricity supplies. The service life of batteries and chargers was up to 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 AlanB, The CBE charger has been shown to be one of those very rare units that does actually switch off when the battery is fully charged. When it does Float charge it is at 13.5v, not the higher 13.8v of most chargers, which will make a big difference. If your batteries have lasted 8 years, I guarantee they won't be a budget Lion battery which Louise might have installed? This is exactly my point above that what works for one battery/charger combination might not work for all. The batteries and chargers used in Industrial storage solutions are optimised for long term float/trickle charging, very different to a Motorhome leisure battery/charger. You are probably correct that a 7 day charging cycle would be too short, hence Victron Energy and the like suggesting every 4 weeks to 6 weeks or whatever you need to keep on top of the drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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