cmarshy201 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hi people, I'm new to the motorhome scene as I just bought my first one yesterday so I may be posting s few "stupid" questions, this being the first. I've just bought a Fiat ducato ci 644, so far so good. I'm wondering if it is possible to somehow connect the on board water tank to the mains supply as some sites offer mains water connection. I'm know there's s setup for caravans using the truma pump with the aquarol and ballcock adaptor, is there a similar thing for motorhomes? Thanks in advance, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 why bother? you have a large fresh water tank, when it starts to get low (using guages or experience) refill. of ypu are on a pitch with a tap nearby.....just use a hose....why fill a barrel and then pump the barrel knto the tank? for pitches a bit further away from a tap, this is still easy....take mh to service point....or.....use a long hose (or two joined together) to connect to a tap within this long range.....or......use something like a 10 ltr water carrier and pour into ypur tank. why would you want to carry an aquaroll or similar.....takes up space for something ypu dont really need. ypud then need to think about pumps.....and an external 12v supply.......and then a way stopping the water from the barrel getting into the mh tank.... a caravan system is all about filling the barrel and using a ballcock to prevent overfilling. the caravan thendraws water from this 'tank'. a mh tank is inside and there is no easy way of stopping a flow into this tank.....most users stop filling when the tank overflows...... how will any mh system react to this...... you now have a MH.....not designed for external water cmtainers....you already have tanks onboard.... yes, you can wheel an aqaroll (or similar) to a tap, and then back again, and plug it in, and pump the water into your fresh tank (provided you have all the necessary kit).......but why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 bolero boy - 2016-02-01 9:12 AM why bother? Why not? On every RV I've hired in North America this is standard, on commercial sites you park up, then hook up to power water and sewer, it's just a different way of doing things. Unless you have a van built to take mains or having the caravan type filling system I don't think there is any easily fitted kit available.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 On most sites the mains water supply is shared between a number of pitches so if you connected " permanently " I think you would be very unpopular ( and probably very soon find your connection disconnected ) A set up ( in Europe ) where each pitch has its own supply is sometimes found on the more expensive sites. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 malc d - 2016-02-01 10:17 AM On most sites the mains water supply is shared between a number of pitches so if you connected " permanently " I think you would be very unpopular ( and probably very soon find your connection disconnected ) A set up ( in Europe ) where each pitch has its own supply is sometimes found on the more expensive sites. ;-) The OP refers to 'some sites offer mains connection', I've made the assumption that it is a 'super pitch' being referred to. These are becoming more popular, not something we're interested in, but I can see the attraction to those that like to park up and not move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I see no reason why with a bit of ingenuity a mains water system could not be retro fitted without too much difficulty if that is what the OP would like. Whether the actual benefits would justify the cost only he can decide but it would seriously limit the available range of sites and as has been said the on board water tank is already considerably larger than your average aquaroll. Why not try it as it is first and see how you get on before spending any more cash on a system that might or might not be of benefit. Like all forms of camping, motor caravanning has it's own quirks and peculiarites that you either get used to, adapt and carry on with or do not like and change to a caravan or tent. The principle advantage of a motorhome for us is that, individual preferences for being on a site or off a site aside, you do not need a site to enjoy your camping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 colin - 2016-02-01 10:06 AM bolero boy - 2016-02-01 9:12 AM why bother? Why not? On every RV I've hired in North America this is standard, on commercial sites you park up, then hook up to power water and sewer, it's just a different way of doing things. Unless you have a van built to take mains or having the caravan type filling system I don't think there is any easily fitted kit available.. that was my point.....there isnt an easy way of doing it.....yes, you could use a caravan type kit to to keep a water barrel filled.....but then you have to get it from there to the tank, which would have to be a manual operation of the pump.... caravans (in the main) don't have internal tanks and take their water from a barrel that can be fitted with a ball cock.... to replicate this in a mh would be tricky, require a special set of kit (if there is such a thing).... so, as the OP has a MH with a large tank.....which will last several days.....and rhen quickly be reiffled with a hose, and last several more days.....why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 colin - 2016-02-01 10:24 AM malc d - 2016-02-01 10:17 AM On most sites the mains water supply is shared between a number of pitches so if you connected " permanently " I think you would be very unpopular ( and probably very soon find your connection disconnected ) A set up ( in Europe ) where each pitch has its own supply is sometimes found on the more expensive sites. ;-) The OP refers to 'some sites offer mains connection', I've made the assumption that it is a 'super pitch' being referred to. These are becoming more popular, not something we're interested in, but I can see the attraction to those that like to park up and not move. if the tap is on the pitch, then with just a short length of hose, which could remain permanently connected to 'his' tap and also the other end stuffed into the mh fresh water point, the op could 'turn on the tap' for a few mins and then 'turn off the tap' when the tank is full......whats difficult about this compared to rigging up some special kit.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 bolero boy - 2016-02-01 11:19 AM ...why bother? Because the OP wants to explore the options, and on CC super pitches you do have your own water tap. I haven't seen a commercially supplied kit but it's interesting to consider what would be required. In essence all it requires is the capability of self-regulating flow, to maintain an adequate level in the MH water tank. For MH application it perhaps also needs to attach easily to the existing water tank inlet and (assuming something needs to slide down inside the tank filler tube to detect the level) be compact and clean (and cleanable) enough to serve the purpose. You might be able to use an electronic signal from the water tank lever gauge to control the flow. I'm not sure that I would be bothered to deploy such a gadget because we've only once found ourselves on a CC Super Pitch but I can see a demand for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Forgive me if this concept needs refinement as it is not something I would do and I am still trying to think it through. I was thinking more of a separate inlet on the van and plumbing directly in to the cold water feed from the tank either using non return valves on each of a dual split feed in via a 'Y' piece, or individual taps, to isolate whichever supply (mains or tank) was not in use. You would also need a pressure reducing valve on the mains inlet side if you were feeding the system direct rather than via a mains equiped aquaroll and, unless your van has a submersible pump in the tank, I am not sure how a shurflo type inline pump would react to being supplied rather than having to draw water. There may well be other requirements that I have not yet thought of! The tap and hose tank top up method seems much more viable to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 For RV's it's standard fitment, I've used two different types. On one you have just a single filling point, plug in to this and the tank is filled and water is supplied to taps. On the other there are two points, one is to fill the tank, the other supplies 'town water' (as it's known in US) to system at full pressure, this did cause us problems in one RV as it had a dodgy connection to the toilet which leaked under pressure. I don't know how the single filling point system is plumbed in, but for the two filling point system it had a one way valve down stream of the pump beyond which the mains connected, I guess if this was fitted to most vans you would need a pressure reducer to prevent over pressuring the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 when attempting to resolve a 'problem' a valid 'solution' might well be 'do nothing' based on whats involved (cost/effort/benefit) to acheive nirvanah.... in this case, Richard and i have weighed up the 'problem' and come to a similar conclusion....do nothing. so....'why bother' is a perfectly valid piece of advice following evaluation and previous experience.... if someone can point the OP to a cheap, simple 'kit' that converts his MH into a caravan, it would be nice to se it..... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 In 20 or 30 years time ' demand ' will quite likely have achieved a mains supply available to every van. Then we can start asking for a constant HOT water supply. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken the kontiki Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I looked into what the OP wanted to do some time ago. The theory is pretty simple but a lot is dependent on the accessibility inside the tank and the dimensions and type of tank as they're not all a simple rectangular or square shape. If one of these or similar can be fitted in the tank http://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmaster-brass-shank-bottom-entry-fill-valve/47792, it's then a simple matter of arranging some inlet plumbing and adjusting the float so that the tank doesn't overflow. Side entry models are also available. Our tank doesn't have much depth so a standard toilet cistern fill valve is too long top to bottom. Haven't explored this any further but might just have another look when the weather's better. So what we're doing is basically taking a mains fed caravan Aquaroll that uses one of these http://www.aquaroll.com/shop/mains-adaptor/aquaroll-mains-adaptor-ball-value and moving this, the "tank", into the MH. The on-board MH tank then becomes the same a mains fed Aquaroll on theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 This 2012 discussion may be of interest: http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/City-Water/29833/ The simplest approach (as has been touched on above) would not involve the motorhome’s fresh-water tank, but would connect the mains water-supply to the vehicle’s water system ‘downstream’ of a diaphragm water-pump or - if a submersible pump were fitted - ‘downstream’ of that pump’s non-return valve. Plainly there would need to be a pressure-reducer in the delivery system to prevent it being over-pressured and a non-return valve to ‘seal off’ the system when disconnection from the mains supply takes place, but the principles seem straightforward enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken the kontiki Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Many caravans these days have the facility to their water supplies direct to the mains. Like any mains pressurised installation, the pressures are far above what a 'van or MH pump can deliver and it's therefore good practice (as Derek mentioned) by manufacturers to fit a pressure reducing valve. However, should this device fail, then the mains pressure could play havoc with the internal pipework and fittings. Even though push fit type fittings are claimed to be man enough for mains water pressures, we all know how good a joint you get when they're installed by some of the muppets at the time of assembly lol. To reduce the risk of over pressurising the internal pipework and fittings, many caravan owners go down the route of the Aquaroll plus mains ball valve kit with their submersible pump in it. The pump can also be in-board but again, all we're doing is drawing water from a tank that's constantly been topped up from the mains. Think of it as a smaller system to what you may have in your house but with the addition of a pump. If we're at the stage where we just want to connect a hose to the tank filler on a semi permanent basis, then there's this gizmo http://www.campervanstuff.com/shop_stuff/index.php?mod=product&id_prd=1410 but you still have to go outside and turn the tap on or a tap in-line close to the filler point. I think this is how many Bailey owners have to fill their tanks as they require a special type of fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Ken, you may be right about Bailey owners....i also know that some brands (AS?) only allow filling from an external supply which is puped into the van using a 12v socket nr the water filler.....filling directly with a hose doesnt seem to be catered for.... although i dont have the exact 'cap fitting' in ypur link, i have padded out my hose nozzle so that it fits snuggly into my filler point, water can be turned on without it slipping out and spraying everywhere....lol. this provides a simple and cheap way of having almost a serviced pitch without any complexity, cost or risk of too high a pressure getting into the system... its really hard work.....turn on the tap......whistle 'dixie' (several times), turn off the tap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken the kontiki Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I guess the OP's point is that if the MH water is somehow connected to mains water for more than a few days than just a tank will supply (showers, washing up etc.), is that you'll never run out of stored water. Means that you don't have some wife or partner screaming that there's no water at 11pm at night and you don't have to get the air out of the pipework when the tank's run dry. We're currently laid up on a site for a few weeks with a mains tap on a bollard adjacent to the pitch. Our hose is permanently connected to the bollard and has an on/off tap on the open end which means we just step out of the door and re-fill as necessary. It's just a case of remembering that every 2 or 3 days we need to pop the hose in the filler hole and re-fill as necessary. Only downside is the available pressure and depending on how empty our tank is, can take up to 30 mins to brim the water tank - heh ho, that's life. As you say, not rocket science but would be nice to have a facility at a relatively low cost that could enhance our experience when pitched up for days or weeks on end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 ...makes you wonder how folk manage without self emptying cassettes?..... (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 pepe63 - 2016-02-01 5:02 PM ...makes you wonder how folk manage without self emptying cassettes?..... (lol) Worry ye not pepe - That 'problem ' is being addressed. Direct connections to sewerage pipes are the future. ;-) .......or should that be ' in the pipeline ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I am looking forward to driverless vans that self navigate to wherever I want to go and when we get our robotic house keeper to make the beds and do the cooking then we will truly be on holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 A Marseille-based French company offers a compact system to recycle a motorhome’s or boat’s 'grey’ water. A 94% recovery rate is claimed, meaning that a motorhome could make do with small fresh- and waste-water tanks that rarely needed to be topped up/emptied. The company’s website is here: http://www.nomad-o.fr/ Snag is that (according to a French motorhome magazine) the cost of the system is around €4300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 malc d - 2016-02-01 5:06 PM pepe63 - 2016-02-01 5:02 PM ...makes you wonder how folk manage without self emptying cassettes?..... (lol) Worry ye not pepe - That 'problem ' is being addressed. Direct connections to sewerage pipes are the future. ;-) .......or should that be ' in the pipeline ' Once again pretty standard fare for RV's, and AFAIK most if not all Super Pitches have sewerage point, I can still remember when we had to go out in the yard to fill a water container and take it back to kitchen, and the toilet was a bucket and chuckit down the bottom of the garden, time marches on and things change, not so long ago Truma combi's and tv's (let alone sat tv) would have seemed ridiculously OTT, my last van never had air-con don't think many vehicles come without that nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Besides the French grey-water recycling system, there’s another (French) piece of kit (Cost around €400) designed to empty and rinse a Dometic/Thetford toilet cassette with the cassette remaining in situ. http://u-klean.com/ Then there’s Thetford’s automatic cassette-emptying system aimed at campsites, where the cassette is slid into a big steel box. Inflammable gasses are first extracted from the cassette and an enormous vacuum produced inside the box next sucks the cassette completely dry. The waste is then vaporised using the ‘crematorium principle’ with the burners fed by the extracted gasses. (Well, I think that’s what Thetford told me at the last NEC Show.) http://www.thetford-europe.com/thetford-cleaning-machine-2014/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Have I missed the bit where the OP said they'd bought an "RV" ?..... ..I suspect that being "new to the motorhome scene" (good God!, there's a "scene" !? 8-)), who had only picked up their first van a couple of days ago, they'll soon fathom out the easiest, faff-free method of replenishing the tank... :-D (apologies Derek, crossed your post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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