RogerThat Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Ecocamel offer a simple in-line shut off valve which allows you to essentially 'pause' your shower, without having to alter the tap settings. I've a Whale unit, similar to this: http://sheridanmarine.com/public/assets/images/shop/stock/1288569600/whale-elegance-shower-mixer-1289988349-l.jpg So their valve isn't really suitable as I'd no be able to recoil the shower hose back to being a sink tap again. Does something similar exist? I can't seem to find anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 ...you would need to check the hose fitting size, and how any tap would sit in the fitting, but I would think something like this would be a good place to start looking: http://leisurelines.net/trigger-shower-head---white-701-p.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 RogerThat There are lots of shower shut-off valves available, either built into the shower-head itself or separate: https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=trigger+shower+head https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=shattaf+shower+spray https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=shower+head+in+line+shut+off+valve As Robinhood touches on (and I’m sure you realise) the stumbling-block in your case is that the Whale shower-head and the way it attaches to its hose is not to the ‘domestic’ norm. The problem is not really that adding something like the Ecocamel valve would prevent your shower-hose being fed back into the tap-fitting, it’s that it won’t be practicable to add the valve at all, nor to replace the shower-head with one that has a trigger or integrated shut-off valve. I suspect that you are on a loser... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 ...it's a long time since I had a 'van with Whale taps. I think the ultimate tap fitting is probably a 13mm "hose barb", and it would (should) be relatively easy to add a 1/2" to 13mm hose barb converter to the bottom of any replacement trigger tap and have it work acceptably as a shower; the issue would be how firmly that would seat into the tap "bush" for use as a conventional tap. I suspect that (unless you were very lucky with the shape/size of the converter), the answer would be "not very well". It should be possible to do a "Heath Robinson" job on it, but it is unlikely to be aesthetically appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerThat Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 Hmmmm.... Looks like I've got some pondering to do.... I was debating removing the whale head completely and replacing with, as you say, something more domestic then sticking another small shower bracket holder just above the sink. It'd mean never fully retracting again and indeed all a bit Heath :-S Thanks for the replies, I'll sleep on this a while longer ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 My understanding is that the water-flow of the Whale shower/mixer tap shown in your photo can be switched off by turning the knurled ring at the end of the shower-head. This would not be as convenient as having an in-line On/Off valve or a trigger-operated shower-head, but it would save water during showering, should allow the water temperature that had been set at the taps to be maintained, and might avoid hacking the shower-head about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerThat Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 What?! 8-) No way!! I thought this was just to adjust between a shower 'spray' and a tap 'flow'? Do you know, I've NEVER actually turned it! No water in the MH at the moment, but you sure know what the first thing I'm doing is when it's filled :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 That’s what Whale says... http://tinyurl.com/hrur7ej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerThat Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 Amazing... I'm still blown away by the fact that I didn't even know it did this (lol) Almost tempted to fill the MH just to test it B-) :-D Thank you, so very much :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerThat Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-03-11 8:06 AM My understanding is that the water-flow of the Whale shower/mixer tap shown in your photo can be switched off by turning the knurled ring at the end of the shower-head. Amazing! Having filled the MH with water today this was the first thing I tried :D And yup, sure enough, a simple one-quarter turn of the shower head switches it off completely!!! Every day's a school day eh? Thank you once again, I'm very (very) grateful B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerThat Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 I am still enjoying this new-found feature to this day :D I have a question though... When turn the knob on the shower head to turn off the water, the pump keeps running. Yet if I turn off the taps, the pump stops. Why is this?! If there is no water coming out, how can the pump possibly know I've shut the water off at the shower head and not at the taps? Is doing this likely to damage my pump as it keeps on running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 ..it's most likely that your pump is operated by microswitches on the taps, not by a pressure sensing switch. Turning off the tap turns off the pump, closing the shower head (without moving the taps) doesn't. It's unlikely that leaving it in that state for a short while will cause a problem, but i wouldn't leave it like that for extended periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 RogerThat Robinhood has provided the answer. If you look at the underside of your shower/mixer unit where it protrudes beneath the bathroom work-surface, you’ll find that it differs from the picture you provided in your original posting, with each of your taps having a microswitch attached to its side. The microswitches are shown in this advert http://www.duncancamping.co.uk/elegance-microswitch-rt9000-5122-p.asp and their position in this Whale diagram http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/siteFiles/resources/docs/product-accessories-spares/F_Elegance_combo_Mk3.pdf Each microswitch will have two thin wires attached to it, and you’ll find that your kitchen-sink’s tap will also have microswitches fitted (and wires attached to it). The presence of wires attached to the underside of a tap usually indicates that the motorhome’s water pump will be a submerged (submersible) type and located inside the motorhome’s freshwater tank. No wires attached to the tap usually shows that the motorhome’s water pump will be a pressure-sensitive type and located ouside the motorhome’s freshwater tank. This is just a general rule of thumb though, as pressure-sensitive submerged pumps are available and motorhome manufacturers sometimes choose to operate a pressure-sensitve water pump via tap microswitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerThat Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 Well, you learn something new every day! I had no idea I had microswitches, I assumed that due to the age of my MH this wasn't something I had. Also, I have what looks like a traditional kitchen sink mixer tap that you'd buy in Screwfix. I can't get to the back of the taps, or underneath, my bathroom wall is one massive pre-fab moulded panel, I dread to think what would happen if ever I needed to fix a tap! The pump though, I thought was outside of the tank. I'm still learning this MH malarkey so I may be wrong, but I have some kind of diaphragm mounted close to the tank (under the rear bench seat) which has a dial on the top to adjust the sensitivity / pressure, I assumed this was also the actual pump, maybe it's not, I don't actually know :) I'll try and take some photos... One thought, if I am on a microswitch arrangement, would a safer option be for me to fit some kind of waterproof switch in the shower to cut the power to the pump 'remotely'? Or would water still flow out the shower head due to the siphon principal? I'm a very competent electrician but I'm a terrible, terrible plumber :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 RogerThat Hmmmmmmmmmmm.................. I’m guessing your statement “...I have some kind of diaphragm mounted close to the tank (under the rear bench seat) which has a dial on the top to adjust the sensitivity / pressure, I assumed this was also the actual pump, maybe it's not, I don't actually know...” relates to one of these http://www.towsure.com/whale-in-line-pressure-switch?catargetid=520002630000002100&cadevice=c&gclid=CIywy_fepM4CFcEcGwodr3oAKw particularly as I know that Swift used this in motorhomes way back when. The Whale in-line pressure switch permits a submersible water-pump (ie. the pump is inside the motorhome’s freshwater tank) to be used without the need for microswitches on the water taps. It simplifies the motorhome’s electrical system and avoids having to run electrical cables from the taps to the pump. http://www.whalepumps.com/rv/siteFiles/resources/docs/resource-library/db_180.25_v2_0211.pdf Assuming that your Swift has a Whale in-line pressure switch, there’s no obvious need for its taps to have microswitches, so (with the benefit of hindsight) what could have been asked when you said "When I turn the knob on the shower head to turn off the water, the pump keeps running.” is “Does the pump continue to run indefinitely?” Certainly, if your water-pump was being turned on and off via tap microswitches, if you turned off the taps the pump would stop running immediately and, if you turned off the water-flow at the shower-head without turning off the taps, the water-pump would continue to run indefinitely until the taps were turned off. When a motorhome’s water system includes a Whale in-line pressure-switch, I would have thought that, when a tap is turned from on to off, the water-pump would continue to run for a short period (say a few seconds) until the rise in pressure in the water pipework causes the in-line pressure switch to turn off the pump. I assume your combined shower/mixer unit provides water to a washbasin as well as for showering. If you turn on the unit’s taps to run water into the washbasin and then turn off the taps, does the water-pump stop immediately or continue to run for a short while? The difference between turning off the water via the shower/mixer unit’s taps and turning the water off at the shower-head is that, with the former, the water-flow is stopped before it reaches the shower-hose and, with the latter, the water flows through the shower-hose and is being stopped at the shower-head. I wouldn’t have thought that this should be significant regarding the water-pump continuing to run in the latter case but not in the former UNLESS a) when you turn off the water at the shower-head this does not turn off the water completely or b) there’s a leak in the shower-hose preventing the pressure in the water system from rising quickly and, consequently, delaying the in-line pressure switch from switching off the water-pump. (Wish I hadn’t told you about rotating the end of the shower-head ;-) ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerThat Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-08-03 9:23 AM I’m guessing your statement relates to one of these http://www.towsure.com/whale-in-line-pressure-switch?catargetid=520002630000002100&cadevice=c&gclid=CIywy_fepM4CFcEcGwodr3oAKw Yes! That's exactly the arrangement I have! I also should have said, for clarity, when I turn off any tap, the pump continues to run for a few seconds before coming to a halt. So yes, I would now safely say I do not have any microswitches. Derek Uzzell - 2016-08-03 9:23 AM I assume your combined shower/mixer unit provides water to a washbasin as well as for showering. If you turn on the unit’s taps to run water into the washbasin and then turn off the taps, does the water-pump stop immediately or continue to run for a short while? If I turn off the taps on the basin the pump continues to run for a few seconds, then stops. If I turn off the water using the knob on the shower head, the pump continues to run. I'm not sure for how long, certainly as long as it takes to get lathered up, so at least a minute or two? I've not actually tried this with the shower head back down in the 'sink position'. When turned off at the shower head, it is completely off, it doesn't even drip. I was wondering if the flexible hose to the shower head could expand under pressure and not allow the pump to build up sufficient pressure to turn itself off. There are no signs of the hose ballooning or anything though. Derek Uzzell - 2016-08-03 9:23 AM UNLESS a) when you turn off the water at the shower-head this does not turn off the water completely or b) there’s a leak in the shower-hose preventing the pressure in the water system from rising quickly and, consequently, delaying the in-line pressure switch from switching off the water-pump. Ok, now I'm worried as I can't see behind or get to any of the hose and tap parts lol :) One possible thought, I can adjust that pressure switch using the knob on the top. Perhaps I should try adjusting the pressure switch while the shower head knob is in the off position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 RogerThat - 2016-08-03 9:20 PM 1: I was wondering if the flexible hose to the shower head could expand under pressure and not allow the pump to build up sufficient pressure to turn itself off. There are no signs of the hose ballooning or anything though. 2: One possible thought, I can adjust that pressure switch using the knob on the top. Perhaps I should try adjusting the pressure switch while the shower head knob is in the off position? 1: The pressure produced by a motorhome’s water-pump is relatively low and the likelihood that it would be sufficient to expand your shower-hose in the way you suggest is nil. I have read the occasional on-line warning about fitting a shut-off valve to a shower-head, saying that closing the valve could result in the shower-hose ‘exploding’, but those warnings have always related to domestic showers (and I suspect that the exploding shower-hoses were poor quality or already faulty). 2: As turning off your taps results in your water-pump stopping running after a few seconds, the in-line pressure switch seems to be functioning as one would expect it should. Adjusting the switch’s pressure-setting downwards should reduce the time the pump runs after a tap is closed, but I don’t know whether doing this would have a knock-on effect on how the water system works generally. In any case, I can’t see how doing this would make much difference to the present situation where - when the shower-head is turned off - the water-pump continues to run for at least a minute or two. As you’ve said that turning off the shower-head turns off the water-flow completely, a water leakage is the prime suspect for the water-pump continuing to run. It’s easy to imagine that, if there were a small crack in the plastic pipework in the part of your mixer unit between the tap-outlets and the shower-hose, or a slightly loose connection, water might not leak (or, perhaps more probably, would only leak very slightly) from that crack/connection when water could flow unrestricted from the tap-outlets, through the shower-hose and out from the shower-head. But once the water-flow is restricted by the shower-head being turned off, consequently raising the pressure in the pipework/shower-hose leading from the tap-outlets to the shower-head, it should be expected that the water leakage would increase significantly. If the leakage hypothesis is correct, you could stop turning off the shower-head and hope doing this prevents the leakage occurring. If you continue to turn off the shower-head and doing this is provoking a serious (hidden from view) water-leak, I’d hope this would become evident quickly (and be rectified) as I’m sure you are aware of the harm it might cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 The running on maybe due to a complete loss of pressure when running the shower from both the hot and cold feeds, so the pump has to re pressure the whole system. If you only use a one tap at a time in the kitchen or toilet, the system may not lose to much pressure, so the pump can repressure the system more quickly. Maybe turning the hot and cold kitchen taps on full bore, for a couple of minutes, sort of mimicing the use of the shower, and get the same result as the shower, it could be the answer, maybe, Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerThat Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 Thanks for all your help and insight thus far everyone, very useful, yet still slightly worrying.. Point taken about there not being enough pressure to expand a plastic hose, it was a long shot :) Here's my unit: https://owncloud.dg2.org/s/jWjFwut5ngXsjlw/download It'd be a rather major piece of work to remove that entire wall unit (which is one solid piece and continues up to include the vanity cabinet). The tap head pulls up out of there and clips higher up to form a shower (as per pic at top of this page). I did a couple of tests last night, here's what I found. If I run just the hot tap, and turn it off again (at the tap), the pump stops in less than five seconds. If I run just the cold tap, and turn it off again (at the tap), the pump stops in less than five seconds. If I run just the hot tap but this time turn it off using the knob on the shower head, the pump stops in less than five seconds. And now the worrying bit.. If I run just the cold tap but this time turn it off using the knob on the shower head, the pump keeps on running! I wasn't brave enough to leave it running, I listened carefully for any dripping noises behind the shower unit but couldn't hear any (not that I would if it was simply running down the wall inside or something 8-) Now this has confused me even further (lol) If there was a split in the rubber hose that runs from the taps up to the shower head, then regardless of which tap was turned on the pump would continue to run? Worth mentioning, and it's never crossed my mind before until this discussion, when I am showering and turn the water flow off at the shower head, a minute or two later when I turn it back on again (after lathering for example), I get a cold shot of water for a moment or two before it returns to the previous temperature. Which thinking about it now, is possibly related to this other issue somehow. Interesting thoughts re pressure losses too. But I'm still stumped now by how the pump keeps running if the cold tap is on and not when the hot tap is on :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 RogerThat I don’t know what method you’ve used to provide a photo in your last posting, but I can’t view it. However, I don’t think that is likely to matter. With regard to how the water flows, if there’s no leakage I can’t see any obvious difference between you running the cold tap with the shower-head’s knob open and then turning off the cold tap, or running the cold tap with the shower-head’s knob open and then turning off the shower-head’s knob. But you say that the water-pump quickly stops in the former case, but continues to run indefinitely in the latter. Based on the Whale-unit photo that you provided (and that I can view) in your original posting I’ve tried to hypothesise what your experimentation with turning off the taps and shower-head knob might indicate. I’m still minded to believe there’s a leak in the underside part of the Whale-unit (not in the shower-hose itsef) but as you’ve rightly said I would have thought that - if there were such a leak - the pump should also continue to operate indefinitely when you turn on the HOT tap with the shower-head’s knob open and then turn off the shower-head’s knob. I’m doubtful that there are non-return valves in the Whale-unit, but if such valves aren’t present, however I try to play it I can’t explain your findings. As far as getting a burst of cold water is concerned, I believe this is to be expected. When you are showering you will have both of the Whale-unit’s taps open, but the pipework from the water-pump to the unit’s cold tap is ‘direct’, whereas the pipework from the water-pump to the Whale-unit’s hot tap passes ‘through’ the hot-water boiler. This means that, when you turn the shower-head’s knob back on, the cold water-flow will initially take precedence over the hot water-flow. When I fitted a shut-off valve to my Rapido’s standard (hopeless) Ecocamel shower-head the same thing happened. After the shut-off valve had been closed to interrupt the water-flow, when the valve was opened a short while later the unlucky person showering received an exhilerating burst of cold water. How my wife used to enjoy that - Not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 A sideways thought ? Was the original system a wired system that has been modified to a pumped system, and some wireing left in place ? Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 For some inexplicable reason I am now able to view the photo of the mixer-tap/shower arrangement in RogerThat’s posting of 5 August 2016 11:47 AM and this set-up clearly differs from the Whale “Elegance” unit shown in the photo in Roger’s original posting of 9 March 2016 8:55 PM. As the diagnosis I made in my posting of 6 August 2016 8:42 AM was based on the Whale “Elegance” unit’s photo and not on the arangement in Roger’s Swift Sundance, that diagnosis must be put aside. I still can’t offer a credible explanation for Roger’s experimental findings, but that’s because I don’t know exactly how the taps in the Sundance’s bathroom connect to the shower-head. I still favour the leakage hypothesis, as this would explain why the water-pump continues to operate when the cold tap is open and the shower-head closed. That suggestion is problematical where the design of a Whale “Elegance” combined mixer-tap/shower unit is concerned, but Roger’s 1999 Sundance is not fitted with that unit. Roger’s set-up plainly uses Whale parts, but it’s not the Whale product that this discussion has (until recently) assumed was in Roger’s motorhome. Swift are known to have fitted water systems in their motorhomes that used a submersible pump and a Whale in-line pressure-switch (see this 2012 discussion) http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Poor-water-pressure/27515/ Roger has confirmed that his Sundance has a Whale in-line pressure-switch (3 August 2016 9:20 PM posting) and it’s evident that accessing the taps in the bathroom would be a major undertaking. He has also said “I have what looks like a traditional kitchen sink mixer tap that you'd buy in Screwfix”. There’s no persuasive reason to fit microswitched water-outlets when a water system has a submersible water-pump and a Whale in-line pressure-switch. In fact a primary reason for choosing to fit a Whale in-line pressure-switch is to sidestep having to use microswitched water-outlets when the water-pump is the submersible type. So the chances are minimal a) that Swift - having chosen to install a water-system with a submersible water-pump and a Whale in-line pressure-switch when Roger’s Sundance was built - would unnecessarily complicate that system by using microswitched water-outlets, and b) as it’s so difficult to reach the bathroom taps’ underside, that these taps will have been modified to be microswitched. Roger’s motorhome’s original water system certainly MAY have been peculiarly modified during the last 17 years, but the probability is that it has not been. In any case, I can’t think of any believable way the system might have been modified that would result in the water-pump running on as Roger has described. Roger ought to be able to check that his motorhome’s water-system has a submersible water-pump, and experimenting with the Whale in-line pressure-switch’s setting should confirm that this is controlling the water-flow to the water-outlets. But (as far as I can see) the only plausible explanation for why the water-pump runs on involves a water leak between the bathroom cold-tap and the shower-head, and the only way to confirm this (without waiting for the assumed leak to reveal its presence) would be to gain access to the bathroom taps’ underside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerThat Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 Well, thanks once again for all the replies thus far :-) (btw, I fixed the embedded picture link) Derek, you mentioned the word 'elegance' which rang a bell. I dug out the mountain of documentation and paperwork that came with my motorhome when I bought it last year as it included *everything*, from the original bill of sale right down to every instruction book for every single appliance. And sure enough, I found this leaflet: (click photo to enlarge) https://owncloud.dg2.org/s/924yNs0FDyEG2SR/download Rear (again, click to enlarge): https://owncloud.dg2.org/s/VtIfTP6EPirQffN/download And I spotted this, which could possibly mean '1998'? https://owncloud.dg2.org/s/uc8GaIqjA3ohdUF/download So, I think yes, maybe I do have the 'Elegance' unit, albeit in a slightly different component arrangement. Again, I'm 99% sure I have no microswitches. It seems this Elegance unit supports the use of optional switches, but if I did have switches then the pump would stop the instant I turned off either tap (which it does not). I am very easily able to peer inside my fresh water tank as it's under the sofa in the rear lounge and has a huge red inspection cap - I shall do this tomorrow to confirm the existence of a subpump (or not!). I'm still unsure on the possible leak... partly because of the pump stopping when using only the hot tap. As mentioned however, there could be non-return valves in place, in which case yes, then a leak on the cold-side is entirely possible. I can see no easy way to access the underside or rear of the taps, unless the sink unit pops out somehow, but I suspect the sink is fixed in place from the underside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I would have thought that, if the water-pump were running continuously for several minutes and cold water were flowing through the cold tap but not emerging from the shower-head, and there were a leak between the cold tap and shower-head serious enough to prevent the pressure in the water system rising fairly quickly and triggering the in-line pressure-switch, then we’d be talking about a major leak. And if there were a major water leak, I’d expect it to show itself sooner or later. I can’t see why your Sundance’s water outlets should have microswitches given the presence of the Whale in-line pressure-switch and (as you rightly say) if microswitches were present the water-pump would stop immediately when a water outlet was turned off. You should be able to tell if you have a submersible pump by the noise - submersible pumps make a continuous lowish noise, whereas diaphragm pressure-sensitive pumps make a staccato sound and are generally much louder. But looking in the freshwater tank will be worth doing and, if you find a submersible pump there, you may be able to identify its make and model just in case you ever need to replace it. I can’t think of any alternative explanation for the water-pump running on, but I don’t much like the leakage idea either. Dunno what I’d do in your shoes - probably try to convince myself that there probably isn’t a leak, but decide to never shut off the shower-head! You might try asking about this on Swift Talk https://www.swift-talk.co.uk/ as someone there may have a credible explanation that will allow you to turn off the shower-head without worrying that this may be causing a hidden water leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 RogerThat - 2016-08-05 11:47 AM Worth mentioning, and it's never crossed my mind before until this discussion, when I am showering and turn the water flow off at the shower head, a minute or two later when I turn it back on again (after lathering for example), I get a cold shot of water for a moment or two before it returns to the previous temperature. Which thinking about it now, is possibly related to this other issue somehow. Roger, Your comment quoted above got me thinking and here is my theory... Taps are normally designed so the water pressure bears onto the valve when closed (rather than forcing it open, if that makes sense) and you typically get higher cold water pressure than hot at a tap due to the hot water boiler being in the hot side of the plumbing. So, with the hot tap closed and the cold open is the higher pressure possibly forcing cold water back through the closed hot tap? This would then explain why you get a 'cold shot' for a few seconds when you open the shower head as cold water has been forced back up the hot pipework. Try feeling the temperature of the hot pipe as near the shower tap as you can and get someone to operate the taps for you. Just my theory, but then again I may be totally wrong (?) Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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