SOG Toilets

[samnkeez]

New to the game and just come across SOG toilets

 

Are they worth it?

 

Our toilet is new and we don't seem to get a smell unless it is very full and we are in motion. ( speed bumps!)

Notwithstanding the saving on chemicals are they worth the effort

Discuss !

 

[Derek Uzzell]

The ‘value’ of SOG systems have been discussed here quite a few times over the years. Suggest you browse through the forum threads in the list on the following link:

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=SOG+system&author=derek+uzzell&days=&Submit=Search

 

 

[Brambles]

I personally do not like them. You have to empty every day or they can really start to smell, also if you do not replace the carbon filter then any one parked near you gets the benefit of you smells. I think owners get used to the smell as the carbon filters age and do not notice how much they really stink.

Anyway that is my view as a non user and users all swear by them.... just never go into a chemi loo disposal point after someone has emptied one is all I can say.

 

[witzend]

Yes SOG's Very anti social classed right up top with Generators

[starvin marvin]

Absolutely the most vile piece of kit, (which actually rhymes with a similar word). Really dreadful, but as an aside I have noticed that these are becoming less popular than a few years back.

 

Every time I see someone emptying a cassette with one of these fitted I can't help saying what I think of them, the kit that is. Not been punched ....yet.

[Brock]

Worth it if you want to appear environmentally friendly.

 

They are not a cost saver. You need to buy carbon filters and you may still need some of the pink rinse to keep the toilet bowl shiny and smelling nice for those who like a perfumed bathroom - such as my missus. The smell when you empty the cassette certainly clears out the nostrils. They are unpopular with people camping near you because many SOG owners save a few bob by not replacing the filters or using inappropriate filters.

 

We had one for 7 years on our last van. It was a disappointment because I never got to punch Tony [starvin marvin]. Other than that, it worked in that we were able to use the toilet without any chemicals in the cassette, it was more environmentally friendly, never had anyone complain about the smell, and I suppose it was like a mason's handshake to other tree huggers.

 

Haven't bothered installing one in the current van as we have a Thetford Electric Ventilator fitted as standard which doesn't seem to do anything other than make a noise when switched on.

[snowie]

Brock - 2016-04-04 5:45 PM

 

Worth it if you want to appear environmentally friendly.

 

They are not a cost saver.

We had one for 7 years on our last van.

Haven't bothered installing one in the current van as we have a Thetford Electric Ventilator fitted as standard which doesn't seem to do anything other than make a noise when switched on.

Hi all;

I've never been convinced that SOGs actually work and reduce waste material to an environmentally acceptable substance by the action of anaerobic (or is it aerobic) processes in the timeframe applicable to a cassette toilet i.e. 2-3 days max. So I've not installed one. I prefer to use a chemical additive that is acceptable in septic tank systems etc. There are several on the market.

I'm interested in the apparent increase in the use of extraction fans in cassette toilet installations, as Brock describes, but haven't seen any literature that claims these systems are the same as a SOG system.

Neat human waste in a cassette for 2-3 days sounds pretty horrific to me; particularly as I'm the one who does the emptying!!

regards, alan b

 

 

[candapack]

Brock - 2016-04-04 5:45 PM

 

Haven't bothered installing one in the current van as we have a Thetford Electric Ventilator fitted as standard which doesn't seem to do anything other than make a noise when switched on.

 

My loo also came with the electric ventilator, not at all sure how it differs from a SOG but I will continue with the additives - in my case Aldi washing machine capsules. However, I was amused to read in the manual that the supplied carbon filter should last for "one camping season, or about 4 weeks". They don't seem to have much of an idea how much use some vans get!!

[Derek Uzzell]

snowie - 2016-04-04 6:52 PM

 

Brock - 2016-04-04 5:45 PM

 

Worth it if you want to appear environmentally friendly.

 

They are not a cost saver.

We had one for 7 years on our last van.

Haven't bothered installing one in the current van as we have a Thetford Electric Ventilator fitted as standard which doesn't seem to do anything other than make a noise when switched on.

Hi all;

I've never been convinced that SOGs actually work and reduce waste material to an environmentally acceptable substance by the action of anaerobic (or is it aerobic) processes in the timeframe applicable to a cassette toilet i.e. 2-3 days max. So I've not installed one. I prefer to use a chemical additive that is acceptable in septic tank systems etc. There are several on the market.

I'm interested in the apparent increase in the use of extraction fans in cassette toilet installations, as Brock describes, but haven't seen any literature that claims these systems are the same as a SOG system.

Neat human waste in a cassette for 2-3 days sounds pretty horrific to me; particularly as I'm the one who does the emptying!!

regards, alan b

 

 

Alan b

 

The cost of a SOG kit for retro-fitting is around £120, but installation may cost the same again in some instances if the job is not DIY-ed. This would buy a lot of toilet chemicals.

 

Soild waste within a toilet cassette will not disintegrate instantly whether or not chemicals are used, and this will also be true when a SOG ventilator is fitted. Waste in a cassette will break down eventually even if chemicals are not used, but using chemicals to accelerate the process will be more effective than not using them. I can’t see that this matters much - when I empty the cassette I’m not unduly concerned whether the solids have turned into a ‘soup’ or are still lumpy. If this is a big issue for some people, there’s nothing to stop chemicals being used when a cassette-toilet has a fan-assisted ventilation system and Thetford actually recommends this for the (optional) product they offer for the C250/C260 model ranges.

 

As far as I’m concerned, toilet chemicals are there primarily to mask the smell that rises from the waste in the cassette when the toilet is used, but they do nothing to mask the smells produced by the person using the toilet that then pervade the toilet compartment.

 

Plainly, if a toilet has a SOG system and chemicals are not employed, there will be no ongoing costs for chemicals. But let’s forget about cost savings and potential environmental implications and look at how the majority of SOG systems function.

 

When the 'vane' at the base of the toilet-bowl is opened the SOG ventilator-fan begins to run, drawing air into the cassette and exhausting it outside the motorhome. So, if you are urinating, any smell that might emerge from the cassette through the open vane and enter the motorhome's bathroom does not. During defecation the same process takes place (ie. no smell enters the motorhome from the cassette), but the SOG fan-unit is also now drawing air into the cassette from immediately below the defecator's bottom. This air is rarely fragrant!! I'd rather not leave the bathroom in my motorhome smelling like Satan’s backside after I've used it, and I'd rather not feel a need to don a gas-mask before entering the bathroom after my wife has used it (and I'm certain she feels the same vice versa).

 

It is certainly true that, if a SOG system’s filter becomes contaminated because the installation was poor, or the filter is not changed periodically, smell will come from wherever the air being extracted from the cassette exits. There have been claims on this (and other) forums that a SOG system can be odour-free externally, but that’s unrealistic. When I’ve been outside my motorhome I have always been able to detect when the toilet is being used by the smell from the SOG’s exhaust - and that’s even when a new filter has been fitted. But I’ve never considered the smell to be overpoweringly unpleasant and, after all, how long does it take to use a toilet?! My motorcaravanning does not involve parking a metre from the next vehicle nor standing in line at a UK campsite emptying point, so having a SOG system on my own motorhome is very unlikely to offend others.

 

As far as I’m aware there are currently only two toilet fan-ventilation systems - Thetford’s manually-operated system for C250/C260 models (example here)

 

http://www.bradtech.ltd.uk/products/Retrofit-Automatic-Vent-Kit-for-C250-Toilets-T50703.html#SID=105

 

and a whole range of SOG variants, most of which operate automatically when the toilet is used.

 

I’m not seen any evidence that cassette toilets are being increasingly fitted with fan-ventilation systems. Having said that, when a Thetford C250 or C260 toilet is installed as original equipment (OE), there’s a good chance that the ventilator option will be provided. Current Dometic cassette toilets are designed to accept a SOG system and a few motorhome manufacturers offer a SOG system as standard or as an OE option. The introduction of the Thetford C250/C260 system means that more new motorhomes than in the past will have a toilet with a fan-ventilation system, but that’s just a logical conclusion and of no great import. It might be interesting to know how many leisure-vehicle owners choose to have a Thetford or SOG kit retro-fitted (and why) but I doubt that such data can be obtained.

 

Samnkeez originally asked whether SOG systems are "worth it”. A SOG system is not a necessity, so this really boils down to whether he is prepared to fork out at least £120 despite having no first-hand experience of the system. I have 9 years of first-hand experience of owning a Hobby motorhome with a retro-fitted SOG system: I want one on my current Rapido and I’m prepared to pay for it. But I’m not a SOG evangelist and my advice to samnkeez (and to other ‘newbies’) would be to put a SOG system on the back-burner and see how you get on using chemicals.

 

This toilet systems comparative review is worth reading:

 

http://www2.dometic.com/2bcf87a4-5424-48c2-bc3a-e8c7c94b0fa3.fodoc

[Rayjsj]

Thanks for the link Derek, just about everything anyone would ever need to know about toilets.

[Archiesgrandad]

As most of you will know, here in France a very high proportion of the sewage disposal is by septic tanks, fosse septic, and even in a small town like ours we are required to use eco friendly detergents etc because our town system is a huge septic tank. We can buy a variety of different products, and a lot of them are suitable for our van holding cassette and very good at removing odours and breaking down solids. All the supermarkets sell them, and they are much cheaper than the Thetford stuff.

AGD

[Brock]

Candapack, a couple of years ago at the NEC I asked the Thetford rep whether I still needed to use chemicals with its ventilation system. She said yes because the system is designed to remove smells when using the toilet rather than break down waste. Whist chemicals mask smells, they also break down the waste.

 

I suppose the reason I don't know whether it works is that I can't sit on the toilet and smell underneath the van where it vents. I'm not sure how I would persuade my missus to get on the ground and ...

[Matrix Meanderer]

We've had two SOG systems in two different motorhomes over five years

 

Sorry but we've never experienced any smells even when the toilet cassette was next to the habitation door.

Great improvement in reducing the "niff" to almost zero within the van. Can drive with the windows open without any "niff" getting into the driving area.

 

We've never replaced the carbon filters and never noticed any appreciable difference.

 

Makes no difference if you empty the cassette every day (we don't).

 

Never add any chemicals and use ordinary toilet paper.

 

No difference that I can recognise when emptying the cassette - and I've emptied many of them over 10 years both in caravans and latterly in motorhomes.

 

So money well spent I think and the SOG mechanisms have never broken down.

Our latest version has the downward vent though the floor - big improvement on the door mounted version.

 

So for us - absolutely no argument Samnkeez - worth every penny.

[samnkeez]

Thank you for your detailed reply.

There definitely seems to be two parties here. The very strong pro SOG and anti SOG.

I personally have not experienced some of the "aroma's" that have been referred to here so will probably

wait a while and see what we encounter on the road.

 

Thank you so much to everyone for their participation

[thebishbus]

We take advantage of both camps. We have a SOG toilet and use a 50/50 mix of the blue stuff and the cheap washing liquid.

Brian B.

[breakaleg]

We have had a sog system for over Ten years on two vans, I have to empty it every day as I have a disability and cannot carry/ pull a full heavy cassette.

The best thing that I have found is that there is absolutely no smell in the van even when the toilet is in use and I can't say that I have ever noticed any smell outside of the van however, there is nothing wrong with my sense of smell because when emptying the cassette somedays your eyes can water but other days it is ok.

Pete

[StuartO]

I find it strange that people who don't have a SOG system should feel so strongly that they are a force for evil, compared with their own chemically controlled odour system. 

 

I can't say I've ever enjoyed smelling someone else's toilet cassette contents when I've found myself queuing in close proximity to empty mine, but I don't jump to any conclusions about whether they are using the right stuff (or the right diet) to control the smell.

 

Perhaps I am blessed with protective insensitivity of the nostrils but I had SOG fitted to our MH from new (having been without in the previous MH) and it's worked well for ten years.  I've never even bothered to change the exhaust filter. 

 

I've never smelt anything inside the MH or even around the toilet, even when staring down the open hole - which I hasten to add I do purely for purposes of taking aim while standing.  I did get a whiff as I walked past the outlet vent once when the throne was actively receiving gas and solids but it wasn't what you'd call a hurtful experience, no worse, indeed a lot less annoying, than encountering the consequences of someone's silent fart in company.

 

I always use a splash of chemical but a lot less than I would otherwise do.  I think the SOG system is worthwhile and relatively inexpensive, even if I can't prove it to anyone.  I don't mind in the least if others prefer to use more chemicals instead; surely it's simply their choice rather than any matter of scientific or economic principle.

 

[aultymer]

Another happy SOG camper here.

Have fitted 2 now so have a bit of experience. I change the filter every year as reccomended and have never noticed a smell outside when the toilet is in use.

I hate the smell of the chemicals used in non SOG toilets and can even spot Elsan or Thetford chemical users in the pub because of the clingy scent on their clothes.

Great thing is, if you can't afford the SOG system, or have some deep seated dislike of them, you are free to use other systems. Some people use neither and just empty the pottie every day - great compromise and cheapest of all.

It may be sewage to you but it was once my bread and butter when I was paid to design marine toilets.

[Rayjsj]

Just for balance, i am firmly in the Non- Sog camp, i have been next pitch to a door mounted Sog exhaust pipe, for several days, until they thankfully moved on.Dont know whether they had changed their carbon filter.....but it didnt smell like it. I have the Thetford version fitted to our van, but always use Elsan Blue, never noticed the smell of perfumed Formaldehyde clinging to my clothes, but then i like the smell anyway.Much better than .....the other smell . horses for courses.

[candapack]

aultymer - 2016-04-06 9:19 PM

 

It may be sewage to you but it was once my bread and butter .

 

Think I'll stick with just ordinary bread and butter :D

[candapack]

Brock - 2016-04-05 12:18 PM

 

Candapack, a couple of years ago at the NEC I asked the Thetford rep whether I still needed to use chemicals with its ventilation system. She said yes because the system is designed to remove smells when using the toilet rather than break down waste. Whist chemicals mask smells, they also break down the waste.

 

I suppose the reason I don't know whether it works is that I can't sit on the toilet and smell underneath the van where it vents. I'm not sure how I would persuade my missus to get on the ground and ...

 

Thanks for that Brock. Presumably then, a SOG doesn't break waste down either, just encourages you to empty it more often.

Your previous post on this thread mentioned the noise the electric ventilator makes, however, it's not quite loud enough for my OH who still wants the radio on high when she's in the loo. :D

[Archiesgrandad]

My late brother in law worked at a sewage disposal works, he said it wasn't a very stimulating job, most of the time he was just going through the motions.

AGD

[starvin marvin]

candapack - 2016-04-07 9:08 PM

 

aultymer - 2016-04-06 9:19 PM

 

It may be sewage to you but it was once my bread and butter .

 

Think I'll stick with just ordinary bread and butter :D

 

This reminds me of my first experience of being on the receiving end of an adult joke. There I was a little kid shovelling horse muck up from the brewers horses on the street opposite our house. When my Aunt Rose walked past and asked why I was doing it, I said " to put on our rhubarb" she said "oh we put custard on ours"

 

I thought, what's she talking about the mad bat...my mum explained it. Happy days.

[lennyhb]

starvin marvin - 2016-04-04 4:42 PM

but as an aside I have noticed that these are becoming less popular than a few years back.

.

Don't know why you say that, they are standard or an option on most German vans.

Only thing I can think of is you are not crawling under vans or getting on the roof to check. Modern SOG's are either roof or underfloor vented. :D

 

Wouldn't be without a SOG, don't like the dangerous chemicals at all, the smell is dreadful and gives me large sneezing belts, much prefer the smell of my own poo. :-D

[Derek Uzzell]

For what it’s worth...

 

Although “SOG” cassette-toilet ventilation kits are well known, the company does produce other products:

 

http://www.sog-systeme.de/?changelang=2