Barney123 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just going to try and post pictures of the mains connection in the wardroob of the van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Bill, you have to get the file size down to under 100kb to be able to attach the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney123 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Sri for delay, had to pop out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney123 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 This is the Box in the wardrobe, obviously I have taken the cover off to show he inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Bill, Above the main blue switch does it say 'B16'? If so it appears to be a 16 Amp MCB (overload circuit breaker) and not an RCD (earth leakage trip). It also does not have a 'Test' button which is a feature of an RCD. My opinion. Keith. Edit to add: It is also a 'Double Pole' MCB, ie it disconnects both Live and Neutral when tripped. Please can you transcribe the text on the MCB for us as it is not clear on the photo. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney123 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Hi Keith, No its a B10, so its 10 amp, and no test button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney123 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Hi Keith Going down CHINT NB1-63 B10 [6000] [3] 400V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Cheers Bill. Yes, agree with you then that it is a 10 Amp MCB with no earth leakage protection. This may possibly explain why you are tripping the RCD on supply posts without tripping your own breaker. Assuming of course it is the RCD you are tripping on supply posts. Can you narrow down to one item of equipment which you are using when it has tripped, ie kettle, phone charger, fridge, battery charger, etc, etc... Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney123 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Hi Keith, Yes it trips the site post (when it happens) When parked on site, we would have the AES fridge/freezer working on electric, the battery charger would be on, and sometimes the Phillips Kettle 823-900w. The water heating is by gas only. There is underfloor heating, but that is only used in cold weather and not being used when the tripping occurs. When it has tripped on site, I have unplugged from the post, made sure nothing was plugged in on the van, reset the Trip, plugged back in and it trips again, do it a few times in succession and still trips. Leave it for a couple of hours, plug back in to the site post and it works okay. Thats about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Strange! There is no other switch between the incoming plug on the side of the van and the MCB? I don't much like the look of the way that has been wired, but I'm no electrician! It looks very congested, and the outgoing flexes look to be getting pinched, particularly bottom right where the separate earth is tight against an outgoing service that appears to have been pinched by the case. Have you looked for signs of insulation damage there? However, what is clear is that if there is no RCD anywhere on board, and it is the RCD on the pillar that is tripping, the fault could be anywhere in your van distribution system. There are six outgoing services. Assuming one is fridge, another battery charger, and a third underfloor heating, what are the others? Presumably just 3 sockets? How is the underfloor heating controlled? I assume there must be a 'stat? Can it be isolated otherwise? I assume there must be an on/off switch somewhere, as once the mains are connected, that 10A MCB livens all circuits simultaneously. Have you checked the wiring to that switch (assuming it exists)? You've said you have checked all the sockets, and that the fridge runs normally on mains, so they can reasonably be set aside for now. That leaves the underfloor heating and the main charger unit. I would imagine a fault on the charger unit would show up as soon as the supply was connected, rather than only occasionally. Andy will know about that. However, you have had the van 7 years from new, and this has only begun happening recently. So, summat's changed. If the (assumed) underfloor heating switch is OK, I think your next check would be to trace each wire from the MCB to its end point, looking for any sign of mechanical damage along its length. Over the time you've had the van it is possible that something that was pinched, or pulled tight in installation, may have chafed through sufficiently to expose the conductors. Movement of the van while travelling, or due to occupation, or even expansion/contraction due to temperature, may then make just sufficient contact to trip the bollard RCD. It only needs a very small current to cause an RCD to trip. About 30mA, I think. Other than that, testing resistance of each circuit in turn might give a clue as to where to start looking, but you'd have to disconnect and subsequently re-connect every wire in that nest of German knitting below the MCB to do that! Hope this may help a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney123 Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 Hi Brian, You are correct with all 6 outlets from the MCB The underfloor heating is controlled by a neon switch, no thermostat involved. Re the condition of the wires from the MCB, they were all nice and tidy before I took the clip off to investigate each outbound wire. I have not tidied them up as yet as further testing might be necessary. As for checking visually the condition of the wires from the MCB thru to each of the units, I dont think they were meant be be visually checked, because it always seems the wireing is put in place and the van is built around them.Making it nearly impossible unless you pull all the wires back thru and re-thread them back into place. Anyhow, I will give it another check over the weekend, and if all else fails, I will call into Campirama early in the New Year and see what they can find, if any. Many thanks, Brian Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Bill, strongly suggest that you get an RCD added? It shouldn't be hard or expensive to do as everything is accessible. Brian, you are right, the mains Chargers do tend to 'drop off mains' on permanent basis, rather than intermittent. But we have had a couple of RCD 'faults' where the trip was load dependent, as power draw increased arcing occurred in the Inverter. Another with a live feed rubbing on the metal case and one with a loose Earth wire that tripped out the RCD. But yes, almost always the charger develops a fault and blows the fuse, sometimes 'tripping' as it goes. The fuse failure effectively then isolates it from the mains from then on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney123 Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 Hi Andn Ok thanks I will get an RCD fitted, can you recommend a make/model/type etc for my type of set-up and I will get one from the wholesaler and have it fitted Best regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 My suggestion would be to disconnect the mains and then remove the MCB. Take that to the wholesaler and see if he can supply a matching RCBO, which combines the functions of MCB and RCD. Providing the mountings are the same it should, with any luck, be a like-for-like swap, but possibly needing a bit more width to accommodate the test button. If you're lucky, that might be available via a "snap out" portion on the cover. The advantage would be that it all goes back into the original location and cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 May I add my two penneth to all the advice to fit a RCB. The approach suggested by Bill Kirby, makes good sense. Over 25 years ago when I was sold a new Pilote R390, it became obvious that the listed RCB, was only a 2 pole 16A MCB. The problem was solved in a similar fashion by purchasing a 16A RCBO, which were then relatively recent items,and making a direct replacement. Most of these circuit breakers are standard DIN rail mounting. There is also a standard module width of 18mm, but for some applications half width modules are available. Typically a single pole MCB will be one module, 18mm, wide, and a double pole MCB as pictured will be 36mm wide. 16A RCBO's are commonly available with a two module (36mm) width. The existing module may be released from the mounting rail by pulling out the spring loaded latch with a screwdriver. Replacement is therefore relatively easy It would be wise as Derek suggests, to use the existing MCB as a template. Ther could be differences in height above the rail, with circuit breakers from different makers. However I did not find this to be a problem. BEFORE ATTEMPTING THIS REPLACEMENT, DO UNPLUG THE MH FROM MAINS SUPPLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Hi, just a thought, but nobody has queried whether or not you have a reversed polarity detector, as a lot of continental pillers are wired mixed options. Ie where the pillar has outlets on both sides, the left side may be wired live neutral correctly but the right hand side would be wired such that live and neutral would be reversed. When you have noticed the problem, have you always used the same pillar, and the same side of it. In uk, I would like to think the all pillar outlets are wired such that live and neutral appear on the correct pins, but I carry a reversed detector and always check just in case. This might be totally irrelevant, but it is something else that just might be worth checking. Incidentally, our van has the reversed detector built in to the control panel, and it brings up a warning on screen if things are wrong.. Tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Once connection was in UK, Tony, so reversed polarity should not have been a problem with that. However, as Bill's van is a LHD import from Germany, and is wired to German standards, it will be "polarity blind", and would be completely unaffected by reversed polarity. I'm a mite surprised that your van is polarity sensitive, as most are not. It was a potential problem years back but, AFAIK, all vans are now wired with double pole switches and MCBs, which eliminates the polarity risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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