Desperately seeking all season tyres...

[yanis]

Hello All

After a week of frustration, maybe someone out there can help us. We need to get all season tyres for our motorhome in the next 2-3 weeks before we drive down to Greece through Germany, Switzerland etc. Can I find a garage in West/ South Essex or in Kent en route to the Eurotunnel who can supply me with these? No, I cannot. For the technically minded, we need 215/70 R15 C 109 (or above) - marked M&S (mud and snow). If anyone can suggest a garage/tyre-fitter in those areas or North-East or South-East London, I'd be truly grateful. Many thanks. Yanis....

[nowtelse2do]

Google....camskill. They are in Whitehaven and will deliver next day if ordered before 2pm. It was £2.50 per tyre last time I used them. Good people to talk to.

 

Dave

[StuartO]

yanis - 2016-11-21 3:41 PM  ....  we need 215/70 R15 C 109 (or above) - marked M&S (mud and snow)

 

Michelin Agilis Camping are marked M&S and they are widely available.  They are not proper winter tyres but good enough to be legal on German etc roads in winter.  You will still need chains if you go above the snow line.

 

[lennyhb]

Not a 100% certain but I think from January 2017 M&S tyres are no longer acceptable where winter tyre are required unless they have the snowflake marking.

[nimod]

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m109b0s1613p0/Winter_-_Snow_-_Cold_Weather_-_Van_Motorhome_Tyres_-_15_inch_R15_inch_-_215_70_15_215_70R15

 

http://www.tyresafe.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/motorhome-leaflet.pdf

 

JUST LOOKING MYSELF !!!

[kevina]

Go up to 225/70 r15 112 and you will find much more choice. This is perfect!y ok as it is shown as an alternative size in my ducato manual. It does mean going from a camper tyre to a commercial tyre with a max pressure of 65psi but that is ok and many do so.

[webby1]

Go up to 225/70 r15 112 and you will find much more choice.

 

We did this with our van and fitted Toyo H09 with M and S markings which we are happy with.

 

Very interested in any further info as to why these may not be acceptable in the future, although I know they are not true snow tyres

[QFour]

Continental VancoWinter 2

 

Have all the right symbols. Made in Germany .. Clever these Germans. You could phone them to find out what tyre pressures you can use. You may also need a Bank Loan they are not cheap but then nothing is in Germany and you have to have them.

[nimod]

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Winter-Tyre-Requirements-changing-Europe-/43346/

[Billggski]

Michelin Agilis camping M&S are available in both 205 and 225 70 15, I paid £102 fitted for 225's with high pressure valves in the summer from blackcircles.

Probably more now.

I can't find any mention that M&S are not legal next year.

[Derek Uzzell]

Billggski - 2016-11-21 9:56 PM

 

...I can't find any mention that M&S are not legal next year.

 

The earlier forum thread nimod provided a link to above discusses this at some length. Any regulation changes will be effective from the start of 2018 not the start of 2017.

 

The only ‘camping-car’ tyre that is M+S-marked is Michelin’s “Agilis Camping” pattern, but there will be a number of ‘white van’ tyres in 215/70 R15C size with a 109 load index and M+S marking. Hankook’s Vantra LT RA18 is an example.

 

 

[webby1]

Thanks for that info re the M&S markings.............................just one of the many future changesn in the brave

 

new world that will no doubt confuse and cost us.

 

 

[Basil]

I used these on our previous van, absolutely brilliant tyres and British made! With a price of under £80 each they out performed my previous Aglis, smoother, quieter and stopped better.

 

https://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/tyres/brand/avon/avon-wm-van/215-70R15C-109-107R

 

you can order them from Tyre shopper as in link and have them delivered to and fitted at any branch of national Tyres and Autocare.

 

When the time comes I will have them fitted to our latest van, albeit they are a different size on that.

 

Bas

[Derek Uzzell]

It’s perhaps worth highlighting that Avon’s “WM Van” is a recently-introduced ‘winter’ tyre, not a ‘summer’ tyre that is M+S-marked.

 

http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/van/wm-van

 

http://www.parkers.co.uk/vans/news-and-advice/2016/august/avon-wm-van-tyre/

 

As such it will meet any current and future ‘winter tyre’-related regulations a country (eg. Germany) might demand, but it might be worth seeking advice from Avon about WM Van’s suitability for all-year-round use and its performance in hot-weather conditions.

[lennyhb]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-11-22 9:32 AM

 

 

The earlier forum thread nimod provided a link to above discusses this at some length. Any regulation changes will be effective from the start of 2018 not the start of 2017.

 

If you are going to travel to countries that require winter tyres better to get ones with the correct markings unless you are well healed and are prepared to change then in a years time. :D

[Violet1956]

I was advised on an earlier thread that Maxxis all season tyres were a good option and found them on this website which quotes for fully fitted at £78.50 per tyre in the size you are looking for. Haven't bought them yet because I'm happy for the van to sit on its rubbish tyres until we take it out again next year. Don't pretend to know whether you get a good service because I have yet to use this website. Much cheaper than the Continentals but used by a member of this forum who lives in Germany and is quite happy with them. We have a spare wheel so will have to buy 5 which is why I'm looking for a bargain.

 

http://www.mytyres.co.uk

 

Good luck.

 

If you do use them it would be interesting to know how you get on

 

Veronica

[Violet1956]

Sorry should have said £93 for all Maxxia MA-LAS all season on the my tyres website. The cheaper ones I mentioned were winter only.

 

Veronica

[paul2]

Hi

I have used mytyres.co.uk a few times but have always fitted the tyres myself I had quick delivery and a very good date on the tyres and would use again.

Paul

[aandncaravan]

Motorhome Summer tyres at £51 that are as good as a Michelin Agilis +?

 

I was offered a 2003 Mitsubishi Space Wagon at £490 with an apparent 'ECU issue' that 3 Garages had failed to fix but was otherwise quite smart. It ran very, very badly with lots of Black smoke.

 

Confident I could fix it and looking for a bigger car I said yes.

 

But before I could sell my 16 year old Gallant I had to replace the front tyres for the MOT. Looked on the Camskill site a few months ago and found really cheap Sailun tyres in 215/65 R 15 at £32 each to replace the Semperits. I figured I was selling the car so it didn't matter if they were as horrible as I expected.

On fitting the Sailun I was astonished how good they were. The wheelspin on takeoff in the wet, which had been an issue for all of my 6 year ownership with Semperits, Michelins and Hankooks was gone. The occasional kick of the ABS under hard wet braking also disappeared.

This might sound like I drive hard, but I don't, however I do tow a heavy Caravan that is right on the weight limit of the car. Pulling away in the wet with the Caravan, stressed even the Michelins I had before, hence trying the Semperits which did well in a Dutch Tyre test a few years ago.

 

I choose the Sailuns because they had an exceptional Wet Grip rating of B and better than normal 'Fuel saving' of C, but I didn't actually expect them to have any grip in the wet as I had driven lots of Citroen H vans that had Chinese tyres like Hifly, Wanli, Event, Nankang, etc and they used to slide badly in the wet.

I know these 'new' Traffic light tyre ratings are just a guide, bet better than nothing.

 

When the Space Wagon arrived, all 4 tyres, Yokohama front and Mowhawk rear were about half worn but grip was quite poor.

I fixed the Mitsubishi Space wagon which had 3 different faults :

Poor connection on the temperature sensor for the ECU (the ECU thought it was -40 outside so fuelling heavily, fixed with Emery paper) a Carbon clogged throttle body which just needed a good clean and a repair to the connector on the ECU, which I am guessing had been broken when a new ECU was tried

 

Anyway this took longer than expected so we used the Galant for a few trips with the Caravan and the more I drove the more I was impressed by the Sailuns

 

 

Tried out the Spacewagon with the Caravan to find exactly the same slippy-slidy performance as the Galant on the Semperits, Mich, etc. Stability in a straight line was also poor, which made me question if the Space wagon was up to towing the Caravan, even though it was theoretically better.

So fitted Sailuns to the front of the Space wagon which transformed it. No wheel spin, no 'ABS kicking' in the wet.

 

So I bought a second pair which I put on the back of the Galant and swapped the 6 month old Dunlop Blueresponse Sports to the rear of the Spacewagon.

 

The Galant behaved the same with the Sailuns on the rear as it did with the Dunlops which are the top A rating for grip and one of the few with B for economy, yet the Dunlops cost more than twice as much at £69. .

See here for spec/price :

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m53b0s422p0/Car_Tyres_-_MPV_Tyres_-_People_Carrier_Tyres_-_15_inch_R15_inch_-_215_65_15_215_65R15

 

The Space wagon stability improved no end. Driving last Monday in one of the Wettest, windiest days I have driven in for a long time, it was faultless. Virtually ignored the wind even though Trucks and vans were clearly struggling to maintain a straight line. Yet the Space wagon is more Van like than Car in profile.

 

Despite the exceptional grip, the Treadwear rating for the Sailuns is 390, 340 for the Dunlops. The last set of Michelins were 320, so wear should be at least better than average, if not very good.

As a guide my Brothers Suzuki Alto with Falkens had a Treadwear rate of 240 so no surprise they were shot before 11k miles.

 

The Spacewagon is also quieter than it was.

 

£51.30ea for Motorhome/Van 225/70R15 C 112R TL Sailun Commercio VX1 - Motorhome weight Loading and speed rating.

Wet grip is a very good B and economy is a fairly good C and exactly the same as Michelin Agilis +.

See : http://www.camskill.co.uk/m27b0s524p0/Van_Tyres_-_Trailer_Tyres_-_Caravan_Tyres_-_Motorhome_Tyres_-_Minibus_Tyres_-_15_inch_R15_inch_-_225_70_15_225_70R15

 

While the load rating is the same as the Agilis at 112 (1120 kg per tyre) the speed rating is down one at R/106mph versus Mich. S/112mph.

Noise is 72db versus Agilis + 70db, so a bit noisier.

 

 

I am not saying they are the best tyre out there, unlikely, but if you want a budget tyre that is trying to punch above it's weight, the Sailuns are trying. On my Galant they 'out gripped', Semperit, Michelin, and Hankook.

 

I know this was about snow tyres, just pointing out that some Chinese tyres are improving fast and worth looking at as a Snow option? A suggestion I would have laughed at 5 years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nimod]

http://whichtyres.com/2012/05/do-i-need-camping-tyres-for-my-motorhome/

[Steve928]

nimod - 2016-11-29 10:27 PM

 

http://whichtyres.com/2012/05/do-i-need-camping-tyres-for-my-motorhome/

 

"the main difference is that they have tougher sidewalls"

 

This is such a myth that I suspect that the people who repeat this tosh have never actually checked but are just repeating what they've heard or read on the web. If you'd like to see for yourselves then just call into a tyre depot and ask to see an Agilis CP and any run-of-the-mill C tyre; the Agilis has such a thin and flexible sidewall that you'll be shocked (the sidewall distorts badly if you pick the tyre up by its bead) whereas the C tyre will be both thicker and stiffer, designed as it is for white van man to be able to bump up and down kerbs all day. Or just ask the tyre fitter which is easiest to fit, the floppy Agilis or the C tyre that has to be battled onto the rim, and you'll soon get your answer.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

I don’t think Michelin has ever claimed that their “Agils Camping” pattern has ‘tougher sidewalls’, though they do advertise that its construction involves a ‘double carcase’.

 

Where Agilis Camping and Continental’s “VancoCamper” are concerned (not sure about Pirelli’s “Chrono Camper”) a primary difference between these and common-or-garden light-commercial-vehicle 8PR equivalents is Michelin’s/Continental’s authorisation that their ‘camping-car’ tyres can be inflated to a pressure well in excess of the norm.

[aandncaravan]

I agree with Steve928, I have always thought that Camper tyres had more flexible sidewalls for greater flex and comfort. Every van tyre we ever took off seemed to have stronger sidewalls.

 

I had also thought that the extra Air pressure, which can be a big downside in many ways, was used

because of the less durable sidewalls. A way of having the comfort and high load capability?

 

When we were 'creating' the Citroen H vans we used to restore, we replaced a great variety of heavy duty Van based tyres as well as CP tyres. The H vans weighed 1400kgs and had a load capacity for up to 1800kg. In almost all instances the van tyres had stiffer sidewalls.

 

I can't believe that White Van man is kinder to the sidewalls of the tyre in terms of abrasions/impact etc as stated in the Nimod posting, than the average Motorhome owner.

I would have said Motorhome owners would take much more care.

And why should a Motorhome tyre have better Wet/Dry grip than a van??

 

So the assertion that a Motorhome tyre has to be more abrasion resistant and 'grippy' is illogical.

 

A Van that has to carry furniture where the vehicle all up weight is 3,500kg is little different to a Motorhome with a 3500kg max weight.

They both have to carry the same load.

 

I believe a Van tyre will be stronger, generally has a higher speed rating which requires a stronger carcass, and will be more stable.

It will get the lions share of R&D..

It doesn't have the issues with high pressure valves either.

 

 

The Van tyre might make the ride feel slightly firmer, but to me it is the better option and a lot cheaper.

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

aandncaravan - 2016-11-30 9:46 AM.............................

1 I had also thought that the extra Air pressure, which can be a big downside in many ways, was used because of the less durable sidewalls. A way of having the comfort and high load capability?

 

..........................

2 And why should a Motorhome tyre have better Wet/Dry grip than a van??

 

So the assertion that a Motorhome tyre has to be more abrasion resistant and 'grippy' is illogical.

 

 

3 A Van that has to carry furniture where the vehicle all up weight is 3,500kg is little different to a Motorhome with a 3500kg max weight.

They both have to carry the same load.

 

.............................................

 

The Van tyre might make the ride feel slightly firmer, but to me it is the better option and a lot cheaper.

To 1 above, Alan, I would say that the higher pressures are there to enhance the factor of safety. Michelin were, I believe, the first on the scene with "Camping" (CP) type tyres, and my understanding was that they did this for reputational reasons because few motorhomers weighed their laden vans and consequently were very prone to overloading them. This was resulting in tyre failures due to the overload. So, they produced a tyre that was, as it was explained to me by a Michelin technical advisor some years back, in effect a 10 ply tyre with a 8 ply rating. In other words, it was able to sustain a higher load than was advertised, so reducing the danger of catastrophic blowout in the event of overload. To sustain that unstated higher load, it had to be inflated to higher pressure - as do all tyres as load increases.

 

To 2 above, I would say because of the conditions under which they are often driven. Motorhomes do not spend their time on metalled roads, often taking to grass, but also to rough and unmade tracks. Taking 3.5 tonnes of FWD motorhome, often rear end heavy, onto wet grass necessitates a degree of off road capability that I'd suggest few vans ever need. Would one deliberately do this? No. However, motorhomes do get perked for extended periods, and weather does change! :-)

 

To 3 above, I would say that the main difference is that the van is liable to weigh about 2.7 tonnes even when empty, whereas the "white van" will weigh far less than that for much of its life. Motorhomes also do relatively small mileages (about 6,000 per anum) whereas the commercial van will do about 10 times that mileage. So, the motorhome's tyres are stationary for far longer than the van's, and that lack of use is not good for the tyres. The manufacturers are cagey about the differences between CP and C tyres, but I have been told that the tread compound is harder on CP tyres to better withstand these extended periods of inactivity.

 

There is nothing wrong with C tyres, it is just that a motorhome places different demands on its tyres than a commercial light van, for which those tyres are primarily intended. Some folk don't consider the extra cost of CP tyres justified, others do: it is a matter of personal preference, of cost relative to perceived benefit, and how the individual van is used, that influences choice.

 

To borrow a phrase, there is no right or wrong, just different. :-)

[Steve928]

Brian Kirby - 2016-12-01 7:31 PM

 

I have been told that the tread compound is harder on CP tyres to better withstand these extended periods of inactivity.

 

In the spirit of this thread, Brian, would you care to reveal your source? Was it perhaps the milkman (remember those :-) ).